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OfflineDune
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Registered: 10/12/09
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Everything = nothing = everything ?
    #11284115 - 10/20/09 03:11 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Recently I've been thinking....'Nothing' cannot exist without 'something'
The definition of nothing is an absence of something, therefore you cannot have nothing without something to
compare it to. Likewise: 'everything' cannot be defined without nothing, as everything is an absence of nothing. Can
'Nothing' and 'Everything' co-exist in the same universe, or are they both different terms for the same thing?

Oh, plus another thing: How can nothing exist in the first place? The very concept of nothing disproves itself just by
existing ! Surely if you think of 'nothing' then there is something there for you to think of. It's like saying the word
'silence' breaks any silence existing...it's mind boggling.


--------------------
'you cannot tread the path before you become that path yourself' ~ Zen Saying

Who's mouth is possibly big enough to describe things as they are? ~ Alan Watts


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Everything = nothing = everything ? [Re: Dune]
    #11284151 - 10/20/09 03:15 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflinePoptart
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Re: Everything = nothing = everything ? [Re: Dune]
    #11284237 - 10/20/09 03:27 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Dune said:
Recently I've been thinking....'Nothing' cannot exist without 'something'
The definition of nothing is an absence of something, therefore you cannot have nothing without something to
compare it to. Likewise: 'everything' cannot be defined without nothing, as everything is an absence of nothing. Can
'Nothing' and 'Everything' co-exist in the same universe, or are they both different terms for the same thing?

Oh, plus another thing: How can nothing exist in the first place? The very concept of nothing disproves itself just by
existing ! Surely if you think of 'nothing' then there is something there for you to think of. It's like saying the word
'silence' breaks any silence existing...it's mind boggling.




Ya dude this shit sends my head spinning.

I have to think in nondual terms.


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Invisiblewhatdidusay
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Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 1,023
Re: Everything = nothing = everything ? [Re: Dune]
    #11285077 - 10/20/09 05:24 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Dune said:
Recently I've been thinking....'Nothing' cannot exist without 'something'
The definition of nothing is an absence of something, therefore you cannot have nothing without something to
compare it to. Likewise: 'everything' cannot be defined without nothing, as everything is an absence of nothing. Can
'Nothing' and 'Everything' co-exist in the same universe, or are they both different terms for the same thing?

Oh, plus another thing: How can nothing exist in the first place? The very concept of nothing disproves itself just by
existing ! Surely if you think of 'nothing' then there is something there for you to think of. It's like saying the word
'silence' breaks any silence existing...it's mind boggling.




who says nothing can exist without something?

science is a lie man. so is most of what u know to be logic.

"
The definition of nothing is an absence of something, therefore you cannot have nothing without something to
compare it to."

true but the thing that u would be comparing it to is not in existence, it is just a said idea which isnt tangible, so  since nothing refers to the absence of something, and an "absence" cannot be possible withotu something obviously not being there, the said "something" is obviously nonexistant, nothing more than some1 noticing that the said something isnt there, meening yes, u actually can have nothing without having something.

what if i put before me a box and said i have nothing in it. i never talked about anything else of what could have been in it. or anything. lets say there never was aything in it. guess what i suddenly have nothing. nothin yes without having to have to have something.


--------------------




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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Everything = nothing = everything ? [Re: Dune]
    #11285147 - 10/20/09 05:35 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Dune said:
It's like saying the word
'silence' breaks any silence existing...it's mind boggling.




Its mind boggling as long as you use your current mind state
When you realize that beyond imagination, You Are that No thing
Then you dont 'break the silence' anymore :wink:
'You' is thinned out into silence
Then a silence is left that you can not get rid of

Dont get too hung up on the paradoxes, that means your mind is right at the peak
Now all you gotta do is jump off the edge
If i was there id push you over :evil:

Quote:

Poptart said:
I have to think in nondual terms.




The first thought is already duality
When it comes to nonduality
If your thinking too much, you've already overshot the mark :wink:
As ALL thoughts are dualistic
Its about finding that oceanic depth where the current of the waves doesn't pull you about

:peace:


--------------------
________________________________


Edited by Chronic7 (10/20/09 05:43 PM)


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InvisibleMiddlemanM
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Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 7,906
Re: Everything = nothing = everything ? [Re: Chronic7]
    #11285228 - 10/20/09 05:44 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

"Awakening is a process that primarily takes place below the neck." - Adya


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Everything = nothing = everything ? [Re: Middleman]
    #11285258 - 10/20/09 05:49 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Adyashanti is great

:peace:


--------------------
________________________________


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InvisibleMiddlemanM
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Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 7,906
Re: Everything = nothing = everything ? [Re: Chronic7]
    #11285296 - 10/20/09 05:53 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I'll get to chill with him next month, can't wait. :levitate:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Everything = nothing = everything ? [Re: Middleman]
    #11285423 - 10/20/09 06:10 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Alan Watts on nothingness:



--------------------


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OfflinePoptart
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Re: Everything = nothing = everything ? [Re: Chronic7]
    #11285646 - 10/20/09 06:44 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Quote:

Dune said:
It's like saying the word
'silence' breaks any silence existing...it's mind boggling.




Its mind boggling as long as you use your current mind state
When you realize that beyond imagination, You Are that No thing
Then you dont 'break the silence' anymore :wink:
'You' is thinned out into silence
Then a silence is left that you can not get rid of

Dont get too hung up on the paradoxes, that means your mind is right at the peak
Now all you gotta do is jump off the edge
If i was there id push you over :evil:

Quote:

Poptart said:
I have to think in nondual terms.




The first thought is already duality
When it comes to nonduality
If your thinking too much, you've already overshot the mark :wink:
As ALL thoughts are dualistic
Its about finding that oceanic depth where the current of the waves doesn't pull you about

:peace:




Gotcha


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Invisiblelavod
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Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 4,160
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Re: Everything = nothing = everything ? [Re: Dune]
    #11286029 - 10/20/09 07:48 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

:smile:
0=2
"nothing is true, everything is permitted"= everything is true, nothing is permitted

Quote:

How can nothing exist in the first place? The very concept of nothing disproves itself just by
existing ! Surely if you think of 'nothing' then there is something there for you to think of




Everything exists, therefore nothing has to.  Nothing does'nt disprove itsnotself, the perceiver attempts to.  Nothing/everything is'nt in totality a concept, or A anything.  Thinking is a condition of fragmenting nothing/everything.  One cant think of nothing without corruption, but one cant think of everything without corruption either(Otherwise, one would'nt be one, but none/all!).   

"But", the curious might contemplate, "how can nothing and everything possibly be the same?"  To this I, imagining myself as a plump and condescending guru, proclaims: "Zazas Zazas Nasatanada Zazas.  How does it look?".


--------------------

:piss::gocanada:  :piss::gocanada:  :piss::gocanada:


Edited by lavod (10/20/09 08:17 PM)


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OfflinejivJaN
yes
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Registered: 08/09/08
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Re: Everything = nothing = everything ? [Re: Dune]
    #11286933 - 10/20/09 09:41 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Nothing.. automatically springs into something.
It is the DEFAULT of creation.

Nothingness is forever entwined with infinity... resulting in vibration.

there
not there
there
not there

so fast.. you just think its there..

Everything=nothing=everything=nothing=everything=nothing...  to infinity

:smile:


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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OfflinePoptart
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Posts: 1,821
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Re: Everything = nothing = everything ? [Re: jivJaN]
    #11288360 - 10/21/09 12:05 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said:
Nothing.. automatically springs into something.
It is the DEFAULT of creation.

Nothingness is forever entwined with infinity... resulting in vibration.

there
not there
there
not there

so fast.. you just think its there..

Everything=nothing=everything=nothing=everything=nothing...  to infinity

:smile:


:iloveyou:
:vaped:


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OfflinejivJaN
yes
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Re: Everything = nothing = everything ? [Re: Poptart]
    #11289430 - 10/21/09 02:23 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Ur 'im baked' posts made me come up with that theory :smile:

I even named the thread after u :tongue:


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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OfflineDiaboleros
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Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 1,856
Last seen: 7 months, 8 days
Re: Everything = nothing = everything ? [Re: jivJaN]
    #11290052 - 10/21/09 04:55 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Nothing doesn't exist! The way the wolrd is made is out of pure light, and this light gets condensed into matter. It's all light, e=mc². There is no vacuum. If something like "nothing" would exist, the stuff around the nothingness would instant collapse into that nothingness filling up the hole.

That's the way I see it. The realization that "nothing" doesn't exist, that vacuum is a lie, that light waves can't travel on nothing is what made me see how the pyramid of science is flawed at it's very basic concept, and thats why I got into mysticism in the first place because science hit a dead end.

Anyway cool topic, very intersting and important question imo.


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OfflinejivJaN
yes
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Re: Everything = nothing = everything ? [Re: Diaboleros]
    #11290290 - 10/21/09 06:44 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

WE are talking about it are we not ?
If I say it exists.. then it does.
I am the authority on the matter.

It exists...

BUT.. its only purpose is to, with no time elapsed , spring into something ,becoming it.

thus.. you always have the opportunity to experience this no(thing) which creates...
or experience its creations(things) infused with the no(thing)ness capable of creating as well.
the only way to do that is to make the two switch between each other and leave it to the 'observer' to choose which one it wants to experience.


sorry for my arrogance..
ive been feeling particularly 'bright' this evening
i hope you take it humorously :rofl:


in a sense.. you could say it doesnt exist :smile:
but thats only because it is entwined with everything that does.
therefore..
every(thing) is God  - which is no(thing)

everything=nothing=everything


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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OfflineDiaboleros
Devil's spawn


Registered: 07/20/08
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Re: Everything = nothing = everything ? [Re: jivJaN]
    #11290312 - 10/21/09 07:01 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

To me "nothing" is a synonym for "non existing".. so claiming something that doesn't exist, exists, really doesn't make any sense at all to me..... Nothing means "non-existant". Non existence does not exist.  That's how I see it. I really fail to see how the concept of nothing helps you in any way to solve any problem, can you give me an example of how the realization that nothing is everything makes any sense in the real world?



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OfflinejivJaN
yes
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Re: Everything = nothing = everything ? [Re: Diaboleros]
    #11290425 - 10/21/09 08:21 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Sure.
I am very good at giving examples.

All around you are things. Individual objects that we make concepts out of.
Even you are a thing. A mental construct.

So the first step towards 'God' as religion implies is to not be materialistic.
Meaning  - to not rely on 'things' for your happiness.

The second step towards 'infinity' as many spiritual teachings imply, is to get rid of your ego - which is also a 'thing'
a seemingly separate 'thing' from all the other 'things' which you identify yourself with.

So.. once the ego is gone, we somehow get the idea that we are every 'thing'.
Its why they call it 'expanding' consciousness , oneness etc..

The reason for this is because our true nature, is the nature of no 'thing'.

God is formless.
To call it god or any other name simply makes it a 'thing' in our eyes , so that we can mentally deal with it as a concept and talk about it .. just like we're doing right now.
In truth.. god is nothing.
So.. you could say - God doesnt exist.
Or.. you could say - Only god exists.

The very fact that we are using a word to describe it.. makes both statements true.

I see often that you inquire about the 'usefulness' of certain philosophies and the possibility of its application to life in the 'real' world.

well ... first of all.. you stop saying 'real'  :smile:

second .. you start looking at things very differently..

for example..

your sentence goes : Non existence does not exist.

my interpretation goes : no yes yes no yes

thats three yes
two no

so it must be a yes.

without the 'no'... we couldnt have figured that out though...
so it must exist..

in short... this realization tells you :
1.Everything is possible
2.Nothing isn't




god creates and becomes its  creation.
so in a sense... it doesnt exist.. but it is everything.

boom boom boom
vibrating... everywhere...forever..
the more you get in touch with that part of you which is no'thing' the faster you vibrate...
right now its like ... you think you are a thing..
so when you realize that you aren't.. you kinda tickle the equation a bit.. and start vibrating faster.
its like your on a swing and you're only making an effort to go forward and you kinda just relax when your going backwards.
but if you also go backwards.. you start going faster .. and the faster you go - the higher you go.

thats why they call the higher dimensions 'more dense'
cause its like a wave..
its ... well... thicker :smile:
like when you compare a low pitch and a high pitch sound.

this realization ... simply makes it easier for me to understand everything and it gets me OUT of the mode where i think with complex structure , and think with the essence which builds it.
You stop being repetitive ..
you become more 'creative'
you actually... further your individuality , by realizing that it ultimately does not exist.
you're not holding on for dear life..
you're arms are open wide and your tongue is sticking out of your mouth as the roller coaster goes up and down and left and right..
you're enjoying the ride..
you're...
free



:smile:


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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OfflineDiaboleros
Devil's spawn


Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 1,856
Last seen: 7 months, 8 days
Re: Everything = nothing = everything ? [Re: jivJaN]
    #11290476 - 10/21/09 08:47 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

ahhh now I understand, you're a pretty smart guy jivjan, I think you just simply cut the explanations and went straight to the source. You call this source nothing. Thats an interesting way to look at it, it's easier to step out of the box. What I did was call this nothing, the mystery... to make a distinction between the known and the uknown.

But I don't agree on it actually being "nothing", you can feel it like you said, it's the essence that builds everything, it's a type of vibration, a type of emotion a type of energy, and you can ride it.. but the question is what do you do with this? The only use so far I found is to distort it into whatever emotion I want.. it's like tripping without drugs, but you can go much much further and much more intense. In the end it's nothing but playing with emotions, so now I'm trying to figure out the next step, any ideas? Also, do you always feel the vibrations? Would it be possible to feel other peoples vibrations over the internet, can you feel mine?


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Everything = nothing = everything ? [Re: Middleman]
    #11290716 - 10/21/09 10:51 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
I'll get to chill with him next month, can't wait. :levitate:




Cool, i was gonna ask you if you had gone to satsang with him before...

Im sure you'll enjoy it, make sure when you go home afterwards you meditate or read something good, preferably one of his books, once the oxygen of satsang is in you, you should make full use of it

:peace:


--------------------
________________________________


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