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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,117
Loc: Boston
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Re: blame the white man(my first rant) [Re: blewmeanie]
#11277385 - 10/19/09 01:23 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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tiny_rabid_birds said:
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desiretoheal said: do you think if(lets just say as an example) the black man was the more fortunate race based on consensus, would anything be much different? I think the roles would just be reversed, but nothing would be solved(at least in this society).
i pretty much agree. i don't think it would be any different if roles were reversed. in which case i would feel comfortable saying "it's the black man's fault".
i don't hold a hatred for any race. at all. i don't even like to consider race as an attribute of an individual. i'm simply saying that given history, the phrase has validity.
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blewmeanie said:
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tiny_rabid_birds said: being a white man, and having read/researched historical trends, i am often in consensus with putting much blame on the white man.
I don't thinks so man, you can find just as much greedy bullshit perpetrated by people of every race.
I wish people would define this concept of 'greed' as I still have no idea what it means. It seems to me to be an anti-concept, that one can apply to almost anyone who has more than what is required to survive, which is just stupid.
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tiny_rabid_birds
Nocturnal
Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 15,653
Loc: estados unidos
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Re: blame the white man(my first rant) [Re: DieCommie]
#11277396 - 10/19/09 01:24 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Racism is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
from Merriam-Webster.
please tell me where the recognition of factual historic trends falls into this definition.
i already said that in agreeing with the phrase, i do not imply any individual culpability. i do not think that every white man, being white, is inherently ingrained to seek out other races to oppress.
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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After suggesting here that questioning whether or not genetic haplogroups play a role in behavioral traits is a reasonable inquiry 5 people put me on ignore: true story.
You've got to love the near universal ban on any honest dialogue regarding race these days.
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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lol, nice try in backtracking. The phrase does imply individual culpability, inheriting the sins of people long dead simply because we have similar colors of skin. It seeks to define peoples actions based on their race rather then then their culture or other characteristics. Furthermore, claiming your racist beliefs are 'factual historic trends' is the height of ignorance. It would be laughable if it wasn't so dangerous.
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feifen
Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 7,040
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: blame the white man(my first rant) [Re: blewmeanie]
#11277429 - 10/19/09 01:29 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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blewmeanie said:
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tiny_rabid_birds said: being a white man, and having read/researched historical trends, i am often in consensus with putting much blame on the white man.
I don't thinks so man, you can find just as much greedy bullshit perpetrated by people of every race.
Like them Nigerians off craiglist
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: blame the white man(my first rant) [Re: RationalEgo]
#11277444 - 10/19/09 01:31 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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RationalEgo said:
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tiny_rabid_birds said:
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desiretoheal said: do you think if(lets just say as an example) the black man was the more fortunate race based on consensus, would anything be much different? I think the roles would just be reversed, but nothing would be solved(at least in this society).
i pretty much agree. i don't think it would be any different if roles were reversed. in which case i would feel comfortable saying "it's the black man's fault".
i don't hold a hatred for any race. at all. i don't even like to consider race as an attribute of an individual. i'm simply saying that given history, the phrase has validity.
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blewmeanie said:
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tiny_rabid_birds said: being a white man, and having read/researched historical trends, i am often in consensus with putting much blame on the white man.
I don't thinks so man, you can find just as much greedy bullshit perpetrated by people of every race.
I wish people would define this concept of 'greed' as I still have no idea what it means. It seems to me to be an anti-concept, that one can apply to almost anyone who has more than what is required to survive, which is just stupid.
For me greed implies not just excess, but a knowing disregard for the injury of other people.
I can't speak for anyone else though.
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Cowgold
Bullshit
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 12,486
Loc: .
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Re: blame the white man(my first rant) [Re: desiretoheal]
#11277458 - 10/19/09 01:32 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't see why we Americans have a hard on for calling racism in the first place. Why does it seem as if we do this so often as opposed to many european nations? We're not the first or last nation to have slaves or to discriminate.
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tiny_rabid_birds
Nocturnal
Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 15,653
Loc: estados unidos
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Re: blame the white man(my first rant) [Re: DieCommie]
#11277480 - 10/19/09 01:37 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
tiny_rabid_birds said:
Quote:
Racism is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
from Merriam-Webster.
please tell me where the recognition of factual historic trends falls into this definition.
i already said that in agreeing with the phrase, i do not imply any individual culpability. i do not think that every white man, being white, is inherently ingrained to seek out other races to oppress.
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DieCommie said: lol, nice try in backtracking. The phrase does imply individual culpability, inheriting the sins of people long dead simply because we have similar colors of skin. It seeks to define peoples actions based on their race rather then then their culture or other characteristics. Furthermore, claiming your racist beliefs are 'factual historic trends' is the height of ignorance. It would be laughable if it wasn't so dangerous.
there was no backtracking. in my original post, did i say i felt guilt? did i say individual white men should feel guilt? did i say that because of his race, any individual white man is to blame? no. i think you are being more literal in your comprehension of the phrase than i.
to my understanding, the phrase is most often used by african-americans who feel, historically, their people have been given a raw deal. and historically, they have, by white americans/europeans. so yes, i do think the "white man" is to blame for the ownership of black slaves and the consequent centuries of civil injustice. again, let me be clear, in my saying that the "white man" is to blame for this, it simply recognizes the historic trend wherein it was the white man enslaving the black man. and that's the extent of it. it's a recognition of a historic trend. it is not individual culpability. put words in my mouth all you like, but that doesn't change what i have explicitly stated.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,117
Loc: Boston
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Re: blame the white man(my first rant) [Re: blewmeanie]
#11277501 - 10/19/09 01:39 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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blewmeanie said:
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RationalEgo said:
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tiny_rabid_birds said:
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desiretoheal said: do you think if(lets just say as an example) the black man was the more fortunate race based on consensus, would anything be much different? I think the roles would just be reversed, but nothing would be solved(at least in this society).
i pretty much agree. i don't think it would be any different if roles were reversed. in which case i would feel comfortable saying "it's the black man's fault".
i don't hold a hatred for any race. at all. i don't even like to consider race as an attribute of an individual. i'm simply saying that given history, the phrase has validity.
Quote:
blewmeanie said:
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tiny_rabid_birds said: being a white man, and having read/researched historical trends, i am often in consensus with putting much blame on the white man.
I don't thinks so man, you can find just as much greedy bullshit perpetrated by people of every race.
I wish people would define this concept of 'greed' as I still have no idea what it means. It seems to me to be an anti-concept, that one can apply to almost anyone who has more than what is required to survive, which is just stupid.
For me greed implies not just excess, but a knowing disregard for the injury of other people.
I can't speak for anyone else though.
Well then, this I would define as 'sociopathic behaviour' rather than this silly little floating abstraction 'greed' concept that is used for political purposes to mean what I stated previously.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,117
Loc: Boston
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Please, stop defining people by race, it is 'racist'.
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desiretoheal
Seeker
Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 1,286
Loc: Here
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: blame the white man(my first rant) [Re: Cowgold]
#11277520 - 10/19/09 01:42 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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My reason to believe would be because here in the US, there is a huge clusterfuck of diversity, which unfortunately ticks everybody off.
Massive cultural tradition disapproval. People don't like to feel "foreign" where they live. So the labeling of racism gets slammed to try to get someone shut down.
just my general belief, not necessarily factual
-------------------- If there were no rewards to reap,No loving embrace to see me through This tedious path I've chosen here,I certainly would've walked away by now. Gonna wait it out. If there were no desire to heal The damaged and broken met along This tedious path I've chosen hereI certainly would've walked away by now. And I still may ... (sigh) ... I still may.Be patient. I must keep reminding myself of this.
Edited by desiretoheal (10/19/09 01:43 PM)
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tiny_rabid_birds
Nocturnal
Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 15,653
Loc: estados unidos
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Re: blame the white man(my first rant) [Re: RationalEgo]
#11277544 - 10/19/09 01:48 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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RationalEgo said: Please, stop defining people by race, it is 'racist'.
i don't define people by race generally. insofar as i have throughout this thread, it was merely a demographic recognition. my recognition of the race does not imply any inherent traits that would embody any given individual of said race. there would be no other way for us to discuss this topic, nor for me to defend personal attacks on my comment without the use of identifying race.
simply recognizing race as the color of one's skin is not in and of itself racism.
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Olympus Mons
esprit de l'univers
Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 5,777
Loc: ∞
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Quote:
tiny_rabid_birds said:
Quote:
tiny_rabid_birds said:
Quote:
Racism is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
from Merriam-Webster.
please tell me where the recognition of factual historic trends falls into this definition.
i already said that in agreeing with the phrase, i do not imply any individual culpability. i do not think that every white man, being white, is inherently ingrained to seek out other races to oppress.
Quote:
DieCommie said: lol, nice try in backtracking. The phrase does imply individual culpability, inheriting the sins of people long dead simply because we have similar colors of skin. It seeks to define peoples actions based on their race rather then then their culture or other characteristics. Furthermore, claiming your racist beliefs are 'factual historic trends' is the height of ignorance. It would be laughable if it wasn't so dangerous.
there was no backtracking. in my original post, did i say i felt guilt? did i say individual white men should feel guilt? did i say that because of his race, any individual white man is to blame? no. i think you are being more literal in your comprehension of the phrase than i.
to my understanding, the phrase is most often used by african-americans who feel, historically, their people have been given a raw deal. and historically, they have, by white americans/europeans. so yes, i do think the "white man" is to blame for the ownership of black slaves and the consequent centuries of civil injustice. again, let me be clear, in my saying that the "white man" is to blame for this, it simply recognizes the historic trend wherein it was the white man enslaving the black man. and that's the extent of it. it's a recognition of a historic trend. it is not individual culpability. put words in my mouth all you like, but that doesn't change what i have explicitly stated.
it's really not hard to understand what you said.ive gotten shit for recognizing history as it was recorded. There's nothing racist in an observation of truth. The concept of white guilt being some kind of hindrance on the white man is kind of ridiculous.
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I close my eyes and seize it I clench my fists and beat it I light my torch and burn it I am the beast I worship....
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: blame the white man(my first rant) [Re: Cowgold]
#11277586 - 10/19/09 01:54 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Cowgold said: I don't see why we Americans have a hard on for calling racism in the first place. Why does it seem as if we do this so often as opposed to many european nations? We're not the first or last nation to have slaves or to discriminate.
Because it's a cop out. You call someone a racist and you end any more possibility of discussion by discrediting anything they have to say.
:"WTF do you know, you're a racist"...
It's like when Christians bring up the Devil because they can't hold their side of a discussion.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,117
Loc: Boston
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Re: blame the white man(my first rant) [Re: Cowgold]
#11277609 - 10/19/09 01:57 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Cowgold said: I don't see why we Americans have a hard on for calling racism in the first place. Why does it seem as if we do this so often as opposed to many european nations? We're not the first or last nation to have slaves or to discriminate.
In fact we should be proud of the fact that we are the only nation to have gotten rid of slavery in such a short space of time. It is thanks to the wisdom of our founding fathers and the documents they wrote. We should be proud of this.
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