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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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DEBATE ABOUT MARIJUANA USE ALWAYS DOES WELL ONLINE
    #11276278 - 10/19/09 11:49 AM (8 years, 2 days ago)

http://www.nowtoronto.com/daily/story.cfm?content=171814

Up in smoking
DEBATE ABOUT MARIJUANA USE ALWAYS DOES WELL ONLINE
BY DAVID SILVERBERG


Pot stories always do well in the viral world. Case in point: a Vancouver Sun article reports on an Australian study announcing 166 million people in the world between 15 and 64 have smoked weed in 2006. That’s up from about 159 million pot smokers in 2005.

This tidbit of pot news has already attracted 253 comments and 1,130 “votes” on the news aggregator Digg.com.

So some Australians did a study, what’s the big deal? As some Marc Emery fans would expect, Canadian non-profits are calling for weed legalization, saying everyone’s doing it, let’s stop making pot use a crime. Eugene Oscapella, an Ottawa professor and spokesman for the Canadian Foundation For Drug Policy, is quoted as saying, “I'd say 70 or 80 per cent of my university students smoke pot and they are perfectly normal people.”

It’s not enough to simply glean the pro-pot cheerleading from the Sun article.

Go deeper into the study, soon to be published in the Lancet, and you’ll find some nuggets about the adverse affects of smoking weed. If you’re pothead (read: daily user) who’s been getting high for 10 years or more, welcome to the land of “subtle cognitive impairment.” Chronic bronchitis and psychotic symptoms might also be on the dessert menu for any pot smoker who can’t watch a movie without getting high first.

Many High Times readers will say you should judge all these studies cautiously. There’s a government agenda to keep pot out of the good-news pages, they’ll say. It’s all propaganda.

But the Australian’s study numbers are hard – more people are smoking pot. That fact alone may be a catalyst for any medi-pot legislation or full-blown legalization policies on the table.


Oct 19, 2009 at 11:02 AM


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Offlinedurian_2008
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Re: DEBATE ABOUT MARIJUANA USE ALWAYS DOES WELL ONLINE [Re: World Spirit]
    #11276324 - 10/19/09 12:01 PM (8 years, 2 days ago)

There is no debate.

Every argument, whether pro or con, can be condensed into two underlying assumptions:

You either believe in the concept of self determination, or you don't.


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OfflineAaron8001
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Re: DEBATE ABOUT MARIJUANA USE ALWAYS DOES WELL ONLINE [Re: durian_2008]
    #11276406 - 10/19/09 12:26 PM (8 years, 2 days ago)

Its nice to see so much movement in the news in regards to legalization, all of the logistics but like said they have their own agenda and wont listen to others


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Offlinemyco99
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Re: DEBATE ABOUT MARIJUANA USE ALWAYS DOES WELL ONLINE [Re: durian_2008]
    #11277704 - 10/19/09 04:16 PM (8 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

durian_2008 said:
There is no debate.

Every argument, whether pro or con, can be condensed into two underlying assumptions:

You either believe in the concept of self determination, or you don't.




While I believe your statement to be true for cannabis, and true in the general sense as well, I believe there are subtle nuances to this rule.  For instance, we as a society do not believe in self determination in the context of drunk driving, and I think that is a good thing.  We do not as a society have the attitude of "let people just drive drunk and if there is an accident punish them", but if there is no accident, well then "good job on getting home drunk". 

This is an instance where I feel humans, as naturally social creatures, have a moral obligation to lay down rules as a society.  The structure and scope of these rules limiting self determination will always be debatable, but I do not think we can wholly and conclusively dismiss the notion of very limited restrictions on self determination if we are to progress as a society.

That said, the current structure and scope of the "War on Drugs" in the US is and always was completely out of line...driven by the fear of an ignorant public and the cultural discrimination of anyone preferring non European recreational substances (alcohol).

Just a thought provoked by reading your comment that started with "Every argument....".  When I see terms like every, never, always, etc...it throws my mind into a logic game wherein I try to discern examples disproving the claim.

Peace


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Re: DEBATE ABOUT MARIJUANA USE ALWAYS DOES WELL ONLINE [Re: myco99]
    #11278816 - 10/19/09 07:25 PM (8 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

We do not as a society have the attitude of "let people just drive drunk and if there is an accident punish them", but if there is no accident, well then "good job on getting home drunk".




No matter what society says, I thought it was most moral to help a drunk home, without extorting him.

No harm, no foul.

Quote:

Just a thought provoked by reading your comment that started with "Every argument....".  When I see terms like every, never, always, etc...it throws my mind into a logic game wherein I try to discern examples disproving the claim.



What's the nuance? You offered a case against self determination.

I offer a case for absolute truth:
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (attributed to Ben Franklin)


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Offlinerodfarva
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Re: DEBATE ABOUT MARIJUANA USE ALWAYS DOES WELL ONLINE [Re: durian_2008]
    #11279769 - 10/19/09 09:41 PM (8 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

If you’re pothead (read: daily user) who’s been getting high for 10 years or more, welcome to the land of “subtle cognitive impairment.” Chronic bronchitis and psychotic symptoms might also be on the dessert menu for any pot smoker who can’t watch a movie without getting high first.




I am having a hard time naming one thing anyone puts in their body that would have no risk of adverse effects after daily use for 10 years. They always have to use the MOST EXTREME example to attack pot. I would say the majority of pot smokers are marginal users... read: once a week or less. 

Anyway, try using alcohol every day for 10 years. I doubt you get to three.


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OfflineCap Stemson
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Re: DEBATE ABOUT MARIJUANA USE ALWAYS DOES WELL ONLINE [Re: durian_2008]
    #11279781 - 10/19/09 09:43 PM (8 years, 2 days ago)

Whether it is about abortion, owning a gun, or smoking weed, I have the freedom of choice to do it whether you think it is immoral or not. So get off my gun, give me back my weed, and let me kill that un-born child because this is AMERICA.


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Offlinemyco99
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Re: DEBATE ABOUT MARIJUANA USE ALWAYS DOES WELL ONLINE [Re: durian_2008]
    #11279808 - 10/19/09 09:46 PM (8 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

durian_2008 said:
Quote:

We do not as a society have the attitude of "let people just drive drunk and if there is an accident punish them", but if there is no accident, well then "good job on getting home drunk".




No matter what society says, I thought it was most moral to help a drunk home, without extorting him.

No harm, no foul.

Quote:

Just a thought provoked by reading your comment that started with "Every argument....".  When I see terms like every, never, always, etc...it throws my mind into a logic game wherein I try to discern examples disproving the claim.



What's the nuance? You offered a case against self determination.

I offer a case for absolute truth:
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (attributed to Ben Franklin)




The nuance is that your case for absolute truth, in this context, rests upon the idea that self determination is a prime imperative for mankind, that should always be upheld.  Being a moral relativist I disagree.

In any event, the debate between moral relativism and moral absolutism is nothing new; it has been raging since the dawn of philosophy, and is always an interesting mental exercise.


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Offlinebezoo69
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Re: DEBATE ABOUT MARIJUANA USE ALWAYS DOES WELL ONLINE [Re: myco99]
    #11281600 - 10/20/09 02:22 AM (8 years, 2 days ago)

:shocked:

smoke more!


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Invisibleroquet
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Re: DEBATE ABOUT MARIJUANA USE ALWAYS DOES WELL ONLINE [Re: rodfarva]
    #11282089 - 10/20/09 04:29 AM (8 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Anyway, try using alcohol every day for 10 years. I doubt you get to three.



A moderate amount of alcohol won't do any harm. Doctors even recommend a daily glass or two of red wine.


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Offlinerodfarva
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Re: DEBATE ABOUT MARIJUANA USE ALWAYS DOES WELL ONLINE [Re: roquet]
    #11282161 - 10/20/09 05:13 AM (8 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

roquet said:
Quote:

Anyway, try using alcohol every day for 10 years. I doubt you get to three.



A moderate amount of alcohol won't do any harm. Doctors even recommend a daily glass or two of red wine.




Listen, they are talking about "getting high" - not a term i would use for the marijuana equivalent of your one glass of wine. Did their research differentiate between people who hit one hitters on break at work from people that roll 3 gram blunts and burn them down twice a day? Maybe they would have found a benefit of daily marijuana use... Or did they do any research at all?

Quote:

Go deeper into the study, soon to be published in the Lancet, and you’ll find some nuggets about the adverse affects of smoking weed. If you’re pothead (read: daily user) who’s been getting high for 10 years or more, welcome to the land of “subtle cognitive impairment.” Chronic bronchitis and psychotic symptoms might also be on the dessert menu for any pot smoker who can’t watch a movie without getting high first.




shame on you for accepting ^this^ as a conclusive argument as you must have had you followed the logic touted in the glass of wine a day myth. That has been refuted as much as it has been accepted- and there's allways an interest group on either side funding/motivating these "studies."

Quote:

Many High Times readers will say you should judge all these studies cautiously.




Yea? well no shit. There is no fucking study anywhere that studies long term effects of weed smoking on people accounting for the source of the pot. If i worked for the FDA and wanted to do a study on asprine- %100 of what my subject group would be using would be the same medicine. (excluding control groups.) Pot comes from wildly different sources ranging from mexican's (who grow outside and spray the fuck out of every plant with insecticide and home made fertilizers) to the weed geeks in cali growing medical grade clones in specific, repeated conditions.

I highly suspect daily weed users have contaminated themselves hundreds of times over a ten year period with 1000's of different chemicals, molds, and heavy metals. Furthermore, legalization and supervised production (regulation) would create a source for safe and effective pot.

Why dont you do a little experiment shroomerites, make a list of things that mexicans might use to grow weed with (or pirate growers in national forests and their like) and then look up the risks associated with those chems/processes. I'll give you a hint, in mexico they still manufacture and use insecticides the the US banned 50 years ago.

as for respiratory ailments... brownies anyone?


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Re: DEBATE ABOUT MARIJUANA USE ALWAYS DOES WELL ONLINE [Re: myco99]
    #11282639 - 10/20/09 10:26 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

myco99 said:
The nuance is that your case for absolute truth, in this context, rests upon the idea that self determination is a prime imperative for mankind, that should always be upheld.  Being a moral relativist I disagree.

In any event, the debate between moral relativism and moral absolutism is nothing new; it has been raging since the dawn of philosophy, and is always an interesting mental exercise.




What are your morals relative to, if not self determinism?


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Re: DEBATE ABOUT MARIJUANA USE ALWAYS DOES WELL ONLINE [Re: World Spirit]
    #11282866 - 10/20/09 11:37 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

World Spirit said:
http://www.nowtoronto.com/daily/story.cfm?content=171814
Eugene Oscapella, an Ottawa professor and spokesman for the Canadian Foundation For Drug Policy, is quoted as saying, �I'd say 70 or 80 per cent of my university students smoke pot and they are perfectly normal people.
Oct 19, 2009 at 11:02 AM



Agree with him, if you smoke some time pot does not make you stupid pothead or something.


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Re: DEBATE ABOUT MARIJUANA USE ALWAYS DOES WELL ONLINE [Re: dstark]
    #11282917 - 10/20/09 11:45 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

In one psych profile, there's a certain kind of person, who has a very high threshold for stimulation.

There are some "dull" people, who force themselves to engage in repetitive, compulsive behaviors, just to feel emotion.

I'm not suggesting this is healthy or smart.

I am saying that, if someone's behavior doesn't immediately affect me, then, I have no stake in modifying his behavior.

It's not my job to enable or prevent drug use of any kind.


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Re: DEBATE ABOUT MARIJUANA USE ALWAYS DOES WELL ONLINE [Re: durian_2008]
    #11283783 - 10/20/09 02:17 PM (8 years, 1 day ago)

There is no moral debate! Of course it is moral! Its about the money and economic impact that the marijuana and hemp are going to make once legalized. Exxon, Dupont, Pfizer, Anheiser-Busch, Winston-Salem. These companies would suffer an economic bomb-shell, which they should. Fuck alcohol, fuck tobacco, fuck paper products made from trees, and fuck your prescription "medicine" that has 50 life threatening side-effects. Smoke weed.


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Re: DEBATE ABOUT MARIJUANA USE ALWAYS DOES WELL ONLINE [Re: Cap Stemson]
    #11283838 - 10/20/09 02:25 PM (8 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Cap Stemson said:
Whether it is about abortion, owning a gun, or smoking weed, I have the freedom of choice to do it whether you think it is immoral or not. So get off my gun, give me back my weed, and let me kill my un-born child because this is AMERICA.




fixed and quoted for posterity!

My people lost a war and were forced to live under a federal, non-State-based, hegemonic monster of a government.

The least the federal government can do for us is follow it's own rules on "rights not explicitly etc."


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Re: DEBATE ABOUT MARIJUANA USE ALWAYS DOES WELL ONLINE [Re: Mchaggis]
    #11290752 - 10/21/09 11:06 AM (8 years, 18 hours ago)

Actually, I agree with most of the above, except that I wouldn't place my reproductive rights in the hands of the collective.


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