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If christianity is heresy then so is judaism
    #11273226 - 10/18/09 09:29 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Jews say christianity is heresy because they equate a man with God(Jesus). Jews do the same. Jews believe atheists can be jews. If a jew can be an atheist and still in a covenant with God this means that a covenant is based on being and not doing. The only way an atheist jew can be in a covenant with God is if God is considered inside the jewish people and this is a heresy because it equates the jewish people with God. This heretical notion is similar to kabbalistic thought.


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Re: If christianity is heresy then so is judaism [Re: lines]
    #11273250 - 10/18/09 09:34 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Is it true that Judaisms official approach is that only people of the Jewish race or of Jewish upbringing have God inside of them, or are they simply acknowledging that God is in everyone?


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Re: If christianity is heresy then so is judaism [Re: Smitington]
    #11273263 - 10/18/09 09:36 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

They believe only jews are in a covenant with God and that gentiles(non-jews) can enter into a covenant with God through conversion.


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Re: If christianity is heresy then so is judaism [Re: lines]
    #11273312 - 10/18/09 09:47 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Well if they believe that others can enter into a covenant with God, then it would seem that they accept everyone.  Once that person is Jewish, can they not become a Jewish Athiest?  Infact, can't they go through the conversion process openly as an athiest to become a Jewish Athiest?  It sounds like anybody can become Jewish, but they do not accept people that are not yet officially Jewish as being in a covenant with God.  Perhaps your point is that Judiasm should acknowledge that people outside of it's influence can also have a covenant with God.


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Re: If christianity is heresy then so is judaism [Re: Smitington]
    #11273332 - 10/18/09 09:52 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Judaism is open to everyone. My point is that by its own standards it is heretical beause there is an implication that "the divine" is inside a people which is why they call christians heretics because christians believe the divine is inside jesus. The only way an atheist can be considered jewish is if jews accept the idea that the divine is inside jews. My point is is that if judaism is to live up the standards that it uses to conclude christianity as heresy it would need to reject the notion that atheists can be jews.


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Re: If christianity is heresy then so is judaism [Re: lines]
    #11273334 - 10/18/09 09:53 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

according to jewish law an atheist is jewish if he or she has a jewish mother


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Re: If christianity is heresy then so is judaism [Re: lines]
    #11273369 - 10/18/09 10:00 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Alot of religions have an over developed ego, thinking that their way is the only way.  This causes individual religions to be hypocritical, and causes religion when viewed as a whole to be flawed.  I think religions should do away with this my way or the highway approach, and practise a bit more humility.


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Re: If christianity is heresy then so is judaism [Re: Smitington]
    #11273395 - 10/18/09 10:05 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Ya I personally think that all monotheistic religions are praying to the same God


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Re: If christianity is heresy then so is judaism [Re: lines]
    #11273416 - 10/18/09 10:09 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

God point man


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Re: If christianity is heresy then so is judaism [Re: Smitington]
    #11273645 - 10/18/09 10:44 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

all religions are the same at the core blah blah blah


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Re: If christianity is heresy then so is judaism [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #11275766 - 10/19/09 08:21 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

what? human? yeah of course, all religions are held by humans so they are all human in the end.
but religions are all pretty different.

I just find it funny that the jews think theyve got it all, then christians come and say 'no! theres more to the story! '
then islamics come and say 'NO! theres even more to the story! but... there wont ever be any more to the story..'


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Re: If christianity is heresy then so is judaism [Re: lines]
    #11275902 - 10/19/09 09:30 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ya I personally think that all monotheistic religions are praying to the same God




Aim your prayers off a few degrees of an arc and you are praying to an entirely different god.


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Re: If christianity is heresy then so is judaism [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #11275911 - 10/19/09 09:32 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

all religions are the same at the core blah blah blah




And that core is hypocrisy.


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Re: If christianity is heresy then so is judaism [Re: lines]
    #11302974 - 10/22/09 11:41 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Jews reject the mythology of Christianity which is unavoidably Hellenistic. Let me remind you that Jesus (as the mythos goes) was Jewish, and so were all of his friends (disciples). It was the conservative Sanhedrin, who rejected any notion of a Resurrection (and not just the physical resusitation that the fundamentalists absurdly take as historical). Paul never taught a physical resusitation, but a spiritual Resurrection. The tomb narratives speak in the language of religious myth, just as Moses's magickal feats do.

The Synoptic [one-view] gospels: Mark, Matthew and Luke say that Jesus was 'a man anointed by God,' which is not different from a prophet or a king (divine right of kingship). It was John's pseudo-gnostic gospel whch most people confuse with the Synoptics that suggests that Jesus was 'God clothed with flesh.' This is a very different theology, and one which reeks of Greek mythology.

'Jewish,' (and I speak of one raised in a Reformed Jewish home) is adjectival at best and refers to certain psychosocial idiosyncrasies. My mother would say she was Jewish, but she was an atheist til her dying day. I do not consider people who call themselves Jewish to be Jews necessarily, unless they have some kind of inner life, prayer life (of any kind) and who can identify with being monotheistic, not just Jewish. Of course people will parrot what is expected, but most people, Jews too, are not spiritual in any discernable way. I don't mean just when they're in crisis.
A Jew or a Christian can be a panentheist, possibly even a pantheist of sorts, but not an atheist in the sense of NO transcendental Ultimate Reality. They may reject a Zeus or YHVH caracature of Deity, and hold impersonal or transpersonal concepts rather than simple personal concepts of God, and even refuse any concept, but holding to faith or gnosis is acceptable. But no Ultimate Reality in one's life hardly allows for the qualifications of Jew or Christian.


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/23/09 08:19 PM)


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Re: If christianity is heresy then so is judaism [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #11303402 - 10/23/09 12:42 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I guess the main point I was tryig to make is that no abrahamic faith is practiced in the way the ancient israelites practiced their faith and all are divergent and so no faith can disprove another by mentioning a faiths divergence from the path of the ancient israelites.

I agree with you markos, I do not consider atheists to be actually jewish regardless of rabbinic rulings.


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Re: If christianity is heresy then so is judaism [Re: lines]
    #11303987 - 10/23/09 02:53 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

jesus' mommy was screwed by a Jew
They paid for a room but wound up having to sleep in the barn.
But I heard she hadn't gotten off her ass the hole day.


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Re: If christianity is heresy then so is judaism [Re: lines]
    #11307985 - 10/23/09 08:34 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, there's that rabbinical teaching that says 'if your mother was Jewish,' then you're Jewish. My mother may have been born to Jewish parents, but I do not remember my maternal grandmother or my mother's sister ever manifesting anything spiritual. I am not very 'Jewish' culturally speaking, but I am strongly monotheistic. I certainly struggle with trying to understand and/or communicate with the ONE, and I have waxed and waned with monism or non-dualism. I also recognize the reality that ancients saw as polytheistic, in the form of projections (into pantheons of psychological gods and goddesses)), or even currently as I experiment with planetary days and hours in their connection with alchemy (doing certain laboratory Operations only at certain times in order to form a truly spagyric elixir).

It is a good thing that Jews cannot practice Levitical laws, and it is one of the great horrors of life that Muslims try to maintain Sharia law. These abominations are mistranslations of spiritual ideals into worldly proscriptions of human behaviors. They are all tainted by human ego in the extreme.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Re: If christianity is heresy then so is judaism [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #11309315 - 10/24/09 01:28 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

dont you guys understand - jewish law is all about making sure jewish people have the same mitochondria


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Re: If christianity is heresy then so is judaism [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11311646 - 10/24/09 02:12 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah...that's the kind of comment that comes from someone whose parents are brother and sister.


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Re: If christianity is heresy then so is judaism [Re: lines]
    #11312072 - 10/24/09 03:16 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

If christianity is heresy then so is judaism

duh


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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