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OfflineAngryPhil
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The energy source of the future
    #11270323 - 10/18/09 11:37 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

The energy source of the future is going to be the energy source of the past, the sun. I mean there's this huge ball of burning gas emitting about 10,000 times the amount of energy every second that we use in a year that's right next to us, and we're wondering where we're going to get our energy from. It just seems blatantly obvious to me that we need to stop trying to find new alternative fuel sources and spend our time finding better ways to harness the sun's power. Maybe a huge solar energy collector could be build in space which would use the sun's energy to take the hydrogen out of water and send it back to earth to be used as fuel. It wouldn't take up any surface area on earth and would be completely clean and natural. But first the oil industry needs to be taken down. We need to learn that taking a huge shit all over our only possible home isn't worth the money.


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InvisibleThirdEyeOpening
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Re: The energy source of the future [Re: AngryPhil]
    #11270349 - 10/18/09 11:43 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

NO.


Solar at this point is VERY inefficient, and until we can surpass 85-90% efficiency, solar will not be a major means of energy.

There are groups trying to find a better crystal structure for solar collection, but its a work in progress.

The cost of a giant array in space, and the cost of transporting to and from the earth the resources, would make it a total loss, not a gain.

Alt fuels are a temp means of energy, and currently are our best options in terms of cost.


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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former.      -Einstein

Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts


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Offlinegaviao
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Re: The energy source of the future [Re: ThirdEyeOpening]
    #11270370 - 10/18/09 11:49 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)



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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: The energy source of the future [Re: gaviao]
    #11270389 - 10/18/09 11:54 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Sun, Wind, Tidal, Hydro, Geothermal...

There is a fuck ton of energy for the "future" and its the same energy as we have now.


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Offlinetokingnome
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Re: The energy source of the future [Re: ThirdEyeOpening]
    #11270390 - 10/18/09 11:54 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ThirdEyeOpening said:
NO.


Solar at this point is VERY inefficient, and until we can surpass 85-90% efficiency, solar will not be a major means of energy.

There are groups trying to find a better crystal structure for solar collection, but its a work in progress.

The cost of a giant array in space, and the cost of transporting to and from the earth the resources, would make it a total loss, not a gain.

Alt fuels are a temp means of energy, and currently are our best options in terms of cost.




It's inefficient because of our atmosphere.

If there was some way to build a solar panel that could transmit energy from out of our atmosphere wirelessly back to earth, we could power the world.

No idea if this is even possible at the moment with our technology, but it's something we should be looking in to while maintaining our work towards more immediate alternative fuels.


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Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with stinky finger." :strokebeard2:


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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: The energy source of the future [Re: AngryPhil]
    #11270394 - 10/18/09 11:55 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

How do you plan on fueling the world with hydrogen when there aren't enough mineral resources in the entire world to create enough fuel cells for the US alone?


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: The energy source of the future [Re: AngryPhil]
    #11270408 - 10/18/09 12:00 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Maybe a huge solar energy collector could be build in space





You couldnt afford to put your dick in orbit :lol:


Seriously though, putting stuff in space at this point in time is outrageously expensive. Expensive not just in money but also in energy.


Quote:

The energy source of the future is going to be the energy source of the past




Not the sun, older still. The Big Bang. I'm specifically getting at nuclear fusion plants.

All the water on the planet holds a tiny amount of Deuterium. We can get it out, without using up the water and burn it to produce energy, a LOT of energy.

How much energy? Go to the ocean with a tablespoon and a glass. Scoop up 4 tablespoons of water. Know how much energy is in there? A gallon of gas. And you won't pollute or use up the water.

Want to do the math with me?

Barrel of oil equivalent (boe) = approx. 6.1 GJ (5.8 million Btu), equivalent to 1,700 kWh. "Petroleum barrel" is a liquid measure equal to 42 U.S. gallons (35 Imperial gallons or 159 liters); about 7.2 barrels oil are equivalent to one tonne of oil (metric) = 42-45 GJ.

1 gram of Deuterium = 336.4 GJ = 93.75 megawatt-hours = 55.15 barrels of oil
at ideal 100% energy efficiency as:
6 D -> 2 He-4 + 2n + 2p + 43.24 MeV
(D --> 7.2 MeV = 3.6 MeV/gr)

Realistically 1 gram of deuterium contained in 30 liters of water should be able to yield the equivalent of 10 barrels of oil so if you dabble with the numbers a bit it should be possible to get 50 barrels of oil's worth of recoverable clean energy out of each barrel of water the planet holds - without using up the water.

The future is thermonuclear. Pure energy, no toxic or radioactive waste. The energy of the sun, right here on earth.



We did it FAST in the 1950s, now we must learn to do it SLOW in the 2010s


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InvisibleThirdEyeOpening
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Re: The energy source of the future [Re: tokingnome]
    #11270422 - 10/18/09 12:03 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

tokingnome said:
Quote:

ThirdEyeOpening said:
NO.


Solar at this point is VERY inefficient, and until we can surpass 85-90% efficiency, solar will not be a major means of energy.

There are groups trying to find a better crystal structure for solar collection, but its a work in progress.

The cost of a giant array in space, and the cost of transporting to and from the earth the resources, would make it a total loss, not a gain.

Alt fuels are a temp means of energy, and currently are our best options in terms of cost.




It's inefficient because of our atmosphere.

If there was some way to build a solar panel that could transmit energy from out of our atmosphere wirelessly back to earth, we could power the world.

No idea if this is even possible at the moment with our technology, but it's something we should be looking in to while maintaining our work towards more immediate alternative fuels.





Yes our atmospere does cause a loss, at our distance the sun gives ~1300 watts a square meter, the surface of the earth gets ~900-1000.

But our current solar panels cannot convert all of that energy, if the panels were able to convert 100% of the photons striking it to electrons, then it would be feasible, but we just arent there yet.

And having an array in space for energy collection is WAY WAY out of the picture in terms of our current technology.


And as i stated, the amount of energy produced would be minimal to what it would cost to build/maintain.


--------------------

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former.      -Einstein

Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts


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Offlinetokingnome
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Re: The energy source of the future [Re: Asante]
    #11270436 - 10/18/09 12:07 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
You couldnt afford to put your dick in orbit :lol:


Seriously though, putting stuff in space at this point in time is outrageously expensive. Expensive not just in money but also in energy.




Well ya it's expensive in the short term, but will definitely make up for it in the long term. We just need to get it out of our atmosphere and then just have it orbit.


--------------------
Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with stinky finger." :strokebeard2:


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InvisibleThirdEyeOpening
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Re: The energy source of the future [Re: ThirdEyeOpening]
    #11270444 - 10/18/09 12:09 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

And i agree with Wiccan_Seeker.

The bulk of future energy will be fusion energy.

Also a lot of rural people are going to wind/solar/bio for personal home use, which would be ideal.

Produce the energy you will consume, and let the large producers carry the load for corporations/gov/and city dwellers.


--------------------

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former.      -Einstein

Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts


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