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OfflinejivJaN
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The brain - Rewired
    #11262613 - 10/16/09 11:08 PM (8 years, 8 days ago)

What are the strongest sensations you can experience ?
Think about it.
-They come on fast
-They can be uncontrollable
-They are very intense
-They dont last very long

IMO it is
-Fear
-Anger
-The orgasm


So.. not to delve to deep into the subject as i dont know how many of you will understand where im going with this , and how it is related to the Title of the thread..

Basically.. whenever someone is experiencing one of these very intense sensations.. u can step in and rewire their brain.

The best example..

You are with a female.
She is having an orgasm.
So you do something unexpected - kiss her nose , or kiss her forehead .

You lock it in.

I dont suggest doing this , although it happens many times spontaneously.
This is basically a very easy way to get a female 'addickted' :smile:

Every time you kiss her nose.. her brain , her memory ,will automatically associate that with the orgasm.

This is something that applies to all sensations only it is much more significant when you intervene during one of the strongest.

Just wondering how that makes you feel ?
You are subject to it..
and you can control it as well.

Go ahead if you have any thoughts or questions and i will follow to explain more thoroughly why i think this is so .. and why i think it is very important to understand.

:peace:


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: The brain - Rewired [Re: jivJaN]
    #11262797 - 10/16/09 11:43 PM (8 years, 8 days ago)

You seem to be on the right track, but your interpretation here is overly simplistic.

A popular neuroscience saying is, "Cells that fire together, wire together" (just for interest sake)


--------------------


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Offlineigwna
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Re: The brain - Rewired [Re: jivJaN]
    #11263856 - 10/17/09 04:50 AM (8 years, 8 days ago)

could be a very useful thing to know. thanks :thumbup: :wink:



it kinda makes you wonder how many other people have already figured this out and have or have not used such things on the poeple around them.

how free is free will?


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: The brain - Rewired [Re: igwna]
    #11263897 - 10/17/09 05:14 AM (8 years, 8 days ago)

Advertisers use it all the time...



--------------------


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: The brain - Rewired [Re: igwna]
    #11263992 - 10/17/09 06:27 AM (8 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

it kinda makes you wonder how many other people have already figured this out and have or have not used such things on the poeple around them.




that is one of the main reasons i posted this.
Upon reflection i have realized that i used to do such things on a constant basis without even knowing it.
Even now i catch myself spontaneously going into this mode of interaction with others.

The more i am mindful of such things , the less i indulge in them , and it makes it almost impossible for others to gain some sort of unconscious influence over me.

Its true.. advertisements do these things  , so do the news and so do the hollywood movies we all love so much.. but thats not what im interested here.
Im interested in how easy it is to do it amongst each other , and how it is almost unavoidable if you think about it ..

its kinda funny actually to realize that you dont like an entire name simply because the first person you met by that name did u wrong.
or to realize that you have been treating women the way you do because of  your first girlfriend that was mean.

im not saying this is my particular situation , but this is something we all end up dealing with in one way or another.
Girls that associate their physical pleasure with a distant memory of an abusive father .. for example..
Guys that like tits because their mother had big breasts - also.. associated with a distant memory of an abundance of nutrition  coming from them.

I wish redgreenvines was still more active to say something about this..

It just makes we wonder a lot about how much power our consciousness can have if we are aware of such things ..and it also makes me wonder whether this power is something worth pursuing ?

To me .. these look a lot like subtle manipulations of the ego. The main sensations after all are tools of the body.

All the other sensations we can experience such as sadness or hapiness.. or even peace..
are much longer lasting and less traumatic in nature.

It makes me wonder about how much of an affect pornography has..
considering that a male overindulgent in such an activity will naturally associate that specific sensation with being alone.
It does tend to bring about tendencies for 'detached sex' which commonly result in a passive aggressive attitude towards intercourse in general.

There are so many examples..

Quote:

how free is free will?




the fact alone that we are able to manipulate another consciousness to our liking is much indicative of the freedom available.
Religious people would claim that such an authority besides 'God' doesnt exist..
but i think this really isnt the case.
Imagine how much  of an influence someone can have over such people , if they manage to persuade them that they are doing the 'work of lord'.

I think.. that the first thing , someone who is expanding their consciousness, will learn , is how easy it is to notice the patterns of the lower ego consciousness.

Whether we use this knowledge to assist or to exploit , i think , is one of the greatest questions of this time..


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: The brain - Rewired [Re: jivJaN]
    #11264012 - 10/17/09 06:46 AM (8 years, 8 days ago)

Well almost any being can be conditioned like you say, but only through a mind that associates bliss (orgasmic or any other kind of happiness) to an external object. first you must have a mind that does this (which we all do to an extent) then you can be conditioned (which we all are to an extent)

If you meditate & contemplate the nature of existence on the deepest level (the impermanency of all things) then your consciousness' field of perception will expand, you beocme aware of where your getting sucked in.
Then the mind will gain the strength of staying still & attain inner happiness, which requires no external stimuli to be fully happy

In a way we are completely controlled by our environment & have no free will, but only because our mind attributes realities to & beleives happiness can be found within the environment.
But we can also overcome our mind (that which is subject to environment) & regain our original consciousness through meditation, which frees up every aspect of life, not to then control life fully or have conscious will, but to spontaniously express



When i say we are controlled by our environment, we have no free will.... i mean that the environment includes the assumed sense of free will

That sense of will is of the same environment of which it beleives to have influence over, so to say that will is separate from the environment or that it actually controls it, is an assumed illusion



:peace:


--------------------
________________________________


Edited by Chronic7 (10/17/09 07:08 AM)


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: The brain - Rewired [Re: Chronic7]
    #11264197 - 10/17/09 08:29 AM (8 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
you beocme aware of where your getting sucked in.





This is a value judgment from one particular perspective. I personally don't believe we're ever getting "sucked in" as you put it.

What has not been mentioned yet is that a conditioned response isn't a permanent thing. A conditioned association is constantly being reconditioned in the present moment based on the response in the present, and based on our preceding state, and based on the strength of the association, and based on the similarity/dissimilarity of conditioned stimuli each time it's fired, based on the context, and based on the consequences, etc, ...sometimes strengthening the association between CS and CR and other times weakening the association.

I like to think of conditioning stimuli as a kind of means for communication. ..In the same way we don't have to be conscious of how we understand words to "understand" what is meant. We don't have to be conscious of a conditioned stimuli to "understand" how to respond to it. But communication isn't a one way street. So although we may "understand" how to respond at a deeper level, we don't have to, which can in itself communicate something back. (...but if someone was intent on getting a particular response, there's other techniques to use as well to increase its probability. People rarely use conditioning on its own to get what they want...)


--------------------


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: The brain - Rewired [Re: jivJaN]
    #11264749 - 10/17/09 12:13 PM (8 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said:
What are the strongest sensations you can experience ?
Think about it.
-They come on fast
-They can be uncontrollable
-They are very intense
-They dont last very long

IMO it is
-Fear
-Anger
-The orgasm


So.. not to delve to deep into the subject as i dont know how many of you will understand where im going with this , and how it is related to the Title of the thread..

Basically.. whenever someone is experiencing one of these very intense sensations.. u can step in and rewire their brain.

The best example..

You are with a female.
She is having an orgasm.
So you do something unexpected - kiss her nose , or kiss her forehead .

You lock it in.

I dont suggest doing this , although it happens many times spontaneously.
This is basically a very easy way to get a female 'addickted' :smile:

Every time you kiss her nose.. her brain , her memory ,will automatically associate that with the orgasm.

This is something that applies to all sensations only it is much more significant when you intervene during one of the strongest.

Just wondering how that makes you feel ?
You are subject to it..
and you can control it as well.

Go ahead if you have any thoughts or questions and i will follow to explain more thoroughly why i think this is so .. and why i think it is very important to understand.

:peace:



so.. what happens when you kiss her on the nose outside of the bedroom?


--------------------


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Offlineigwna
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Re: The brain - Rewired [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11266264 - 10/17/09 05:21 PM (8 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Noteworthy said:
Quote:

jivJaN said:
What are the strongest sensations you can experience ?
Think about it.
-They come on fast
-They can be uncontrollable
-They are very intense
-They dont last very long

IMO it is
-Fear
-Anger
-The orgasm


So.. not to delve to deep into the subject as i dont know how many of you will understand where im going with this , and how it is related to the Title of the thread..

Basically.. whenever someone is experiencing one of these very intense sensations.. u can step in and rewire their brain.

The best example..

You are with a female.
She is having an orgasm.
So you do something unexpected - kiss her nose , or kiss her forehead .

You lock it in.

I dont suggest doing this , although it happens many times spontaneously.
This is basically a very easy way to get a female 'addickted' :smile:

Every time you kiss her nose.. her brain , her memory ,will automatically associate that with the orgasm.

This is something that applies to all sensations only it is much more significant when you intervene during one of the strongest.

Just wondering how that makes you feel ?
You are subject to it..
and you can control it as well.

Go ahead if you have any thoughts or questions and i will follow to explain more thoroughly why i think this is so .. and why i think it is very important to understand.

:peace:



so.. what happens when you kiss her on the nose outside of the bedroom?





she relates this to when she was kissed on the nose during her orgasm
then her brain sets off some of the orgasm feelings during the nose kiss..

making the nose kiss way more pleasurable for her.
making the nose kiss addicting.
making YOU addicting


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: The brain - Rewired [Re: igwna]
    #11269676 - 10/18/09 06:26 AM (8 years, 7 days ago)

yeahbut... can you explain moreso how effective this is... also is she aware? eg could you be fighting and then, kiss her on the nose and shes like ... 'whoah'
does she rub her nose against you or something

I mean I understand the underlying mechanism, I am more interested in your actual use of these paradigms and how they affect your real relationship (as opposed to a hypothetical one)


--------------------


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Offlineigwna
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Re: The brain - Rewired [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11271135 - 10/18/09 02:40 PM (8 years, 7 days ago)

ah, i can't help you any further then.. i am no scientist or doctor or whatever i would need to be.

i do know that i have used such subtle techniques in the past, maybe subconsciously.. but as fucked as it may seem, i may still use them now that i am aware of them.


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: The brain - Rewired [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11272709 - 10/18/09 07:54 PM (8 years, 7 days ago)

Very effective and No , she usually isnt aware..

The way these things affect a relationship depends entirely on how often you do it , and how strong of a physical sensation you are able to get out of her in the first place..
they usually become very obsessed and addicted to your presence in general.

lets not focus on this example too much..

heres another one..
i have a dog , a little boston terrier..
hes trained to go outside but sometimes he just goes inside if someone doesnt take him for a walk - he has a really small bladder.

So.. u try and figure out why he runs away every time i grab paper towel ? :smile:
ill be in the kitchen trying to wipe my greasy hands and he just books it every time.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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Offlineigwna
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Re: The brain - Rewired [Re: jivJaN]
    #11273664 - 10/18/09 10:45 PM (8 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said:
Very effective and No , she usually isnt aware..

The way these things affect a relationship depends entirely on how often you do it , and how strong of a physical sensation you are able to get out of her in the first place..
they usually become very obsessed and addicted to your presence in general.

lets not focus on this example too much..

heres another one..
i have a dog , a little boston terrier..
hes trained to go outside but sometimes he just goes inside if someone doesnt take him for a walk - he has a really small bladder.

So.. u try and figure out why he runs away every time i grab paper towel ? :smile:
ill be in the kitchen trying to wipe my greasy hands and he just books it every time.




this is a little different, no? he consciously knows he's gonna get whipped or his nose in some pee. thats not very subconscious, he's learned your way is all.

am i right?


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: The brain - Rewired [Re: igwna]
    #11274471 - 10/19/09 12:42 AM (8 years, 6 days ago)

Yea it is kind of different.. but the basis is the same.
I have connected the paper to his sensation of fear...

You can try and scare my dog.. try to intimidate him but he probably wont give a shit.. and he will think you're playing with him.

he reacts to the paper much stronger because he associates it with his early memories of being trained not to piss in the house.

the word 'trained' is very important :smile:

i never once mentioned that this has to be 'subconscious'  - that is a more sophisticated method of trickery i dont think i will go into in this thread.

What i am trying to do here is explain the relation between the strongest physical sensations and memory.

This goes on even on the subtler levels..
for example.. every time you think about this stuff , you might think of this thread.
or .. you might think of me.

The thing is.. when you think of me.. you will automatically associate that with
- the way my user name is spelled
-my avatar
-my sig >> if it caught your eye on previous occasions (also because of this associative memory)
- a thread of mine that deeply impacted you

for instance.. i see you as a christmas Jiguana
funny , right ?
merry christmas :smile:
dont know where i get the J

anyhow.. these are all just small examples ..
where i think it gets interesting is when we influence people to have very strong sensations , or while they are having them.

heres another one :

the smell of vagina

im telling you right now.. no matter what you believe - it doesnt smell good. it is not a pleasant smell.
so why do you like it ?
what do you associate it with ?
the first time you smelled it.. you probably didnt like it... and now.. you probably LOVE it.

one more :
ya know..  when you're just sitting there.. and for no apparent reason.. he pops up to say hello...
basically.. ask yourself every time you get an erection out of nowhere..
why is my dick hard right now ?
you will track it down..
and you will realize.. it was totally out of your control..
and.. what makes it even more interesting
- whatever stimuli it was that got you 'horny'..
probably WASN'T sexual at all.

im not saying this is the way it is always.. but it happens ! and it makes me wonder

:smile:

when i was around 4 in kindergarten .. me and a couple other boys would go under the 'teachers' table and tickle her feet..
she had nice thin black socks.. and the shape of her foot was just perfect.. and they would have a little bit of a foot smell to them.. but not stinky.

ive had a foot fetish ever since.

ive met beautiful girls and simply wanted nothing to do with them because they didnt have pretty feet.
its funny.. but these things have a great impact on our lives..
im not saying go around chasing all these things until your head explodes.. but if there is something that you DONT like.. you can easily change it.

like i said.. this rewiring can be used for good things too and most of the work is simply recognizing it.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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Offlineigwna
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Re: The brain - Rewired [Re: jivJaN]
    #11274671 - 10/19/09 01:10 AM (8 years, 6 days ago)

i see what you're talking about now

the power of associations


and how,  have we learned to reverse them? how do we go about changing these things that we've learned to love (or fear)?

more importantly, how do i erase love(or desire) for a single person?


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



Edited by igwna (10/19/09 01:10 AM)


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: The brain - Rewired [Re: igwna]
    #11274813 - 10/19/09 01:25 AM (8 years, 6 days ago)

extinction is a piece of cake... unless you learned a behavior in a critical (sensitive) period. Then it is nearly impossible to undo what has been learned... and we don't really understand why just yet. 

Picture this, a duckling who learns to associate the first large, moving stimulus in his environment with mother figure. The duckling hatches, and you move a 2 x 4 in front of the duck with some sounds playing. In this sensitive period for the duckling, it now associates the board with being its mother.

No matter what, that duck will not associate another item with its mother. You can even have a real duck become the source of food, and while it will eat from this duck, if the board starts to move, it will once again follow the board as its mother.

For humans, imagine trying to unlearn the associations we have with language. Unlearn your associations to words that you have come to understand and comprehend. Pretty damn difficult, and in fact it is probably impossible without brain damage.

The moral of the story is this: There are lots of different associations out there.
Some more permanent than others. Some stronger than others. Some tied to different senses than others. And in fact, humans have a very limited degree of sensations, so our associations are very vague in relation to what other animals are capable of.


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleFlop Johnson
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Re: The brain - Rewired [Re: jivJaN]
    #11274835 - 10/19/09 01:28 AM (8 years, 6 days ago)

Confusion can be a pretty damn overwhelming emotion


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: The brain - Rewired [Re: jivJaN]
    #11274942 - 10/19/09 01:42 AM (8 years, 6 days ago)

I'm beginning to associate jivJan with a Ross Jeffries wannabe.


--------------------


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Offlineigwna
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Re: The brain - Rewired [Re: Kickle]
    #11275058 - 10/19/09 02:02 AM (8 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
extinction is a piece of cake... unless you learned a behavior in a critical (sensitive) period. Then it is nearly impossible to undo what has been learned... and we don't really understand why just yet. 

Picture this, a duckling who learns to associate the first large, moving stimulus in his environment with mother figure. The duckling hatches, and you move a 2 x 4 in front of the duck with some sounds playing. In this sensitive period for the duckling, it now associates the board with being its mother.

No matter what, that duck will not associate another item with its mother. You can even have a real duck become the source of food, and while it will eat from this duck, if the board starts to move, it will once again follow the board as its mother.

For humans, imagine trying to unlearn the associations we have with language. Unlearn your associations to words that you have come to understand and comprehend. Pretty damn difficult, and in fact it is probably impossible without brain damage.

The moral of the story is this: There are lots of different associations out there.
Some more permanent than others. Some stronger than others. Some tied to different senses than others. And in fact, humans have a very limited degree of sensations, so our associations are very vague in relation to what other animals are capable of.




but how do i make an association extinct?


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: The brain - Rewired [Re: Kickle]
    #11275179 - 10/19/09 02:25 AM (8 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
...unless you learned a behavior in a critical (sensitive) period. Then it is nearly impossible to undo what has been learned... and we don't really understand why just yet. 





What's your source for this claim? Sounds a bit old fashioned.

What do you mean by critical/sensitive period, do you have an example in humans?


--------------------


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