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InvisibleChronic7
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Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,677
The Non-Existence of God
    #11260925 - 10/16/09 06:05 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Those who claim the concept of God has no foundation whatsoever...

What about the experience of God Consciousness by Saints, Sages & Seers from all religions?

These religions were spread all over the globe, separated, at times when communication between them would be impossible, yet they all (in some way) talk of God having attribues of Infinity, Consciousness, Love, Bliss, Peace etc...

All these Sages must have somehow been deluded by the same thing that doesn't exist
How is this possible if they had no communication with each other?

They all Say 'Look Within'
So if the experience of God Consciousness comes from total lack of external influence (meditation)
How can any then claim that the experience comes from religious conditioning?
The Sages didnt even have religious teachings as the religions were created AFTER they lived

Religions are based on the words of the Sages, who experience God-Consciousness
Then people consciousness creates religion & corrupt it

:peace:


--------------------
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Edited by Chronic7 (10/16/09 07:47 PM)


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: The Non-Existence of God [Re: Chronic7]
    #11261006 - 10/16/09 06:15 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

How am i gonna say it without saying it?

How are you gonna tell them without telling them?

What is there to label as being 'god', 'truth', 'reality', etc... when all that does is create confusion?

And yet, and yet... whence came this sudden glimps beyond my ideas? Why do i know now that all this 'knowing' is utter confusion and every words i say is like a song on a stringless guitar?


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: The Non-Existence of God [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11261090 - 10/16/09 06:26 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Jah Bless

:peace:


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OfflineSmitington
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Re: The Non-Existence of God [Re: Chronic7]
    #11261186 - 10/16/09 06:41 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

"God Consciousness" is just another type of our consciousness.  When we fail to realize this we create the idea of God as being an entity outside of ourselves, and then religion forms.  We should never be concerned with pleasing "God", we should act with good nature (which is also an inherent part of us (your conscience)) for the betterment of the universe as a whole.

The idea of "God" is a problem, though it may naturally manifest itself in our minds, so do many other thoughts that we shouldn't act on.  God inevitably leads to power, control, and corruption. 

Lol, I watched Year One last night, and Jack Black plays some what of a profit, a man on a mission from God, but what was great is that the movie was all about pointing out the absurdities of religion and god, and in the end when the people wanted him to lead them as a choosen person by the Gods, he tells them to look inside themselves and be the best that they can be essentially, and basically that they should not worship a man, or a God. 

Spirituality in my eyes should be enwrapping yourself in the mystery of life, maintaining humility, attempting to understand your role or purpose in life (and how you are just one small part of something much much bigger), and acting out of good conscience.  God is not needed for any of this, and only creates problems.


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: The Non-Existence of God [Re: Smitington]
    #11261493 - 10/16/09 07:36 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Smitington said:
"God Consciousness" is just another type of our consciousness.  When we fail to realize this we create the idea of God as being an entity outside of ourselves,





God Consciousness is in everything, including humans, its not just a type of human consciousness or a human state of mind, its just consciousness, which is in everything.

Saying it is consciousness is not placing it outside ourselves as consciousness is the very foundation of being, sentiency, without it you would not have the sense of existence & thats what God is.
The sense of existence is the sense of God, Brahman, Allah, Jah, Tao, Buddha-datu Whatever the name...
It is the sense 'I'

Of course if we are caught up in the existence of MY existence we don't see the true 'I'

We could just say universe, which is just much more acceptable as a mental concept
The word Cunt is more offensive than Pussy, but they are talking about the same thing...

:peace:


--------------------
________________________________


Edited by Chronic7 (10/16/09 07:43 PM)


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The Non-Existence of God [Re: Smitington]
    #11261591 - 10/16/09 07:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Those who claim the concept of God has no foundation whatsoever...


Obviously, every concept has a foundation, WTF are you talking about here? :what:



Quote:

Chronic777 said:
What about the experience of God Consciousness by Saints, Sages & Seers from all religions?


WTF is a Saint, Sage, or seer? How can you or anybody else possible know what a "Sage", "Saint", or "Seer" is subjectively experiencing? :strokebeard:



Quote:

Chronic777 said:
These religions were spread all over the globe, separated, at times when communication between them would be impossible, yet they all (in some way) talk of God having attribues of Infinity, Consciousness, Love, Bliss, Peace etc...


I understand that there are many similarities when it comes to people's beliefs in what "God" is, but my point is that no two people define the term "God" in exactly the same way.



Quote:

Chronic777 said:All these Sages must have somehow been deluded by the same thing that doesn't exist



It's never exactly the same. :shake:



Quote:

Chronic777 said:How is this possible if they had no communication with each other?



There are many schizophrenics that experience pretty much the exact same thing. :smirk:



Quote:

Chronic777 said:
If the experience comes from total lack of external influence...


What if I don't say this? :strokebeard:



Quote:

Chronic777 said:
...how can you then claim that the experience comes from religious conditioning?


What experience are you specifically referring to?



Quote:

Chronic777 said:The Sages didnt even have religious teachings as the religions were created AFTER they existed!



You need to tell me WTF a sage even is before I can seriously entertain this statement.



Quote:

Chronic777 said:Religions are based on the words of the Sages, who experience God Consciousness


Can you provide exampled or any supporting evidence for this statement? :shrug:



Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Then people with their people consciousness corrupt it


Consciousness corrupt it? Don't you mean "consciousness corrupts (with an 's' at the end) it?."?

Which people are the first people you're mentioning here? Who are "their people", what do you mean by that? Are you saying that "their people" are slaves to the first group of people you're simply mentioning as "Then people"?



Quote:

Ahimsa said:
How am i gonna say it without saying it?

How are you gonna tell them without telling them?

What is there to label as being 'god', 'truth', 'reality', etc... when all that does is create confusion?

And yet, and yet... whence came this sudden glimps beyond my ideas? Why do i know now that all this 'knowing' is utter confusion and every words i say is like a song on a stringless guitar?


So there's something you know that you're not telling us because you can't form the words, for whatever reason. :strokebeard:



Quote:

Smitington said:
"God Consciousness" is just another type of our consciousness.


This is one definition, yes, but there are other conflicting ones, too.

What do you mean by "another type of consciousness"? Don't you know that consciousness is most likely a mechanism of a living brain?



Quote:

Smitington said:
When we fail to realize this we create the idea of God as being an entity outside of ourselves, and then religion forms.


Yeah, this is one of thousands (or perhaps even million) of partial definitions of "God".



Quote:

Smitington said:
We should never be concerned with pleasing "God", we should act with good nature (which is also an inherent part of us (your conscience)) for the betterment of the universe as a whole.


Prove it. :rolleyes:



Quote:

Smitington said:
The idea of "God" is a problem, though it may naturally manifest itself in our minds, so do many other thoughts that we shouldn't act on.  God inevitably leads to power, control, and corruption.


I guess I could agree with this statement. :thumbup:



Quote:

Smitington said:
Spirituality in my eyes should be enwrapping yourself in the mystery of life


What does this mean? What is "spirituality"?



Quote:

Smitington said:
maintaining humility



I do what I want! :snub:



Quote:

Smitington said:
attempting to understand your role or purpose in life (and how you are just one small part of something much much bigger)



I think human life in general is about attempting to understand your 'role' in the universe, but I don't think there is an objective "purpose" to anything; it's all relative in terms of purpose.

Of course we are part of something much bigger, I think most people understand this by the time they are adults. I hope you don't mean "much bigger" in any mystical sort of way. :smirk:



Quote:

Smitington said:
and acting out of good conscience.


What is "good conscience"? Isn't anything that is considered to be good to an individual subjective? :strokebeard:



Quote:

Smitington said:
God is not needed for any of this, and only creates problems.


God is not needed for shit. :glittershitz:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: The Non-Existence of God [Re: Poid]
    #11261686 - 10/16/09 08:02 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
What about the experience of God Consciousness by Saints, Sages & Seers from all religions?


WTF is a Saint, Sage, or seer? How can you or anybody else possible know what a "Sage", "Saint", or "Seer" is subjectively experiencing? :strokebeard:






We can know what they were subjectively experienceing by experiencing the core subject ourself.

Perhaps you think of 'subjective' as personal view, but the subject is deeper than personal, the subject is Awareness

Its experiencing Awareness, not an object that a particular person is aware of, for example im not seeing the forest or the diciples the Buddha saw, im seeing what he saw within, which is within all.
Its meditation seeing.
Everything comes from this, lives in this, dissolves in this
I Am This

This is the only question out of the hundred you had worth answering, because my only wish, if i even have one, is for you to have the same experience.
Im not trying to proove im right, my aim is for every single being in the universe to experience this, and they will.
They Already Are.

:peace:


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: The Non-Existence of God [Re: Poid]
    #11261913 - 10/16/09 08:39 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

poid said:

Quote:

So there's something you know that you're not telling us because you can't form the words, for whatever reason.




For a long time, many years of this life, i searched for truth. And then one day, i realised, that what i was trying to do was 'formulate' the truth. But the 'truth', 'reality', 'god', 'self'... it's not of that nature that it can be formulated. It is not a knowledge to be obtained. Seen, there isn't a thing separate from it, ever, but i had to find out by going through that long process of 'searching for the truth'.
And maybe it sounds like cliché, but eventually i arrived where i started, only with the difference that now i don't have to search for the answer to my question.
Out of ignorance i searched. Having seen the futility of my attempt was finding wisdom. The wisdom that brings this very mind in perspective.

When the mind only minds the mind, then the 'truth', 'reality', 'god', 'self' stands alone and shines.
This realisation is wisdom in action, expressing it is kindness... :heartpump:

Oh my!


Edited by Ahimsa (10/16/09 09:37 PM)


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The Non-Existence of God [Re: Chronic7]
    #11261926 - 10/16/09 08:41 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Quote:

Poid said:

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
What about the experience of God Consciousness by Saints, Sages & Seers from all religions?


WTF is a Saint, Sage, or seer? How can you or anybody else possible know what a "Sage", "Saint", or "Seer" is subjectively experiencing? :strokebeard:






We can know what they were subjectively experienceing by experiencing the core subject ourself.



Who's "they"? Are you equating "experiencing the core subject itself" with "Taking the same drug"? Basically, are you saying that people respond to stimuli in exactly the same way? :strokebeard:

Do you think it's possible to perceive others' perceptions? :lol:



Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Perhaps you think of 'subjective' as personal view, but the subject is deeper than personal, the subject is Awareness.



In what way is "it" deeper than a creature's personal subjective "Awareness"? :confused:



Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Its experiencing Awareness...


What do you mean by "it's"? :confused:


Quote:

Chronic777 said:
im seeing what he saw within, which is within all.


And what exactly would that be? mediate


Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Its meditation seeing.


Again, WTF do you mean by "it's"? :confused:


Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Everything comes from this, lives in this, dissolves in this
I Am This.



What is "This"? :confused:



Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Im not trying to proove im right, my aim is for every single being in the universe to experience this, and they will.



If that's your aim, then don't you think you'd be more successful at achieving it if you were able to prove your claims right? :strokebeard2:



Quote:

Chronic777 said:
They Already Are.


It seems like you're not interested in debate. There's another forum here at The Shroomery for users who do not wish to debate their imaginative ideas/beliefs. :mushroom2:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineJaegar
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Re: The Non-Existence of God [Re: Poid]
    #11262135 - 10/16/09 09:31 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Poid you have a great critical thinking mind on you its a pleasure to read your rebuttals. :ooo:


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: The Non-Existence of God [Re: Poid]
    #11262458 - 10/16/09 10:43 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Who's "they"?



:smile:

Quote:

What do you mean by "it's"?



:smile:

Quote:

And what exactly would that be?



:smile:

Quote:

Again, WTF do you mean by "it's"?



:smile:

Quote:

What is "This"?



:smile:


:rofl:  :rofl2:


:heartpump:


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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OfflineSmitington
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Re: The Non-Existence of God [Re: Poid]
    #11262556 - 10/16/09 10:59 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Quote:

Smitington said:
"God Consciousness" is just another type of our consciousness.  When we fail to realize this we create the idea of God as being an entity outside of ourselves,





God Consciousness is in everything, including humans, its not just a type of human consciousness or a human state of mind, its just consciousness, which is in everything.

Saying it is consciousness is not placing it outside ourselves as consciousness is the very foundation of being, sentiency, without it you would not have the sense of existence & thats what God is.
The sense of existence is the sense of God, Brahman, Allah, Jah, Tao, Buddha-datu Whatever the name...
It is the sense 'I'

Of course if we are caught up in the existence of MY existence we don't see the true 'I'

We could just say universe, which is just much more acceptable as a mental concept
The word Cunt is more offensive than Pussy, but they are talking about the same thing...

:peace:




I'm in agreement with you, I'm just trying to put it in my own words. It's something we experience, never said it wasn't in any thing else, and like you I believe that we as humans with our misunderstandings create "God" and religions out of it.  You have some clear insights into this "God Consciousness" however that I am not currently as intouch with.



Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Smitington said:
"God Consciousness" is just another type of our consciousness.


This is one definition, yes, but there are other conflicting ones, too.

What do you mean by "another type of consciousness"? Don't you know that consciousness is most likely a mechanism of a living brain?




I'm saying it's just part of who we are part of what the universe is, what ever God Consciousness is. I personally think I've experienced it once, or what I wanted to call God Consciousness, while I was on ayahuasca.  To me it was like mind in it's purest form, just being, outside of all the other bullshit, kind of like what chronic is saying.  If I have led you to think that I am a mystical/magical believer, I am not, I have a very scientific and logical mind.


Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Smitington said:
When we fail to realize this we create the idea of God as being an entity outside of ourselves, and then religion forms.


Yeah, this is one of thousands (or perhaps even million) of partial definitions of "God".




True, whatever it maybe, I don't believe in God's or religions.



Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Smitington said:
We should never be concerned with pleasing "God", we should act with good nature (which is also an inherent part of us (your conscience)) for the betterment of the universe as a whole.


Prove it. :rolleyes:




About the conscience part?  It is my personal experience that we all know what right and wrong are, and it is true that they are relative, but within similiar means and backgrounds, right and wrong mean roughly  the same thing, so we know what is right and wrong relative to ourselves.


Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Smitington said:
The idea of "God" is a problem, though it may naturally manifest itself in our minds, so do many other thoughts that we shouldn't act on.  God inevitably leads to power, control, and corruption.


I guess I could agree with this statement. :thumbup:




:whoo:


Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Smitington said:
Spirituality in my eyes should be enwrapping yourself in the mystery of life


What does this mean? What is "spirituality"?




Spirituality to me is not mystic or magical, it is simply acknowledging things outside of yourself, selfish crap and what not.  It is thinking about meaning, purpose, and doing the right thing, that's all I mean by it.



Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Smitington said:
maintaining humility



I do what I want! :snub:




:wink:



Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Smitington said:
attempting to understand your role or purpose in life (and how you are just one small part of something much much bigger)



I think human life in general is about attempting to understand your 'role' in the universe, but I don't think there is an objective "purpose" to anything; it's all relative in terms of purpose.

Of course we are part of something much bigger, I think most people understand this by the time they are adults. I hope you don't mean "much bigger" in any mystical sort of way. :smirk:




Well put.  I really am a believe in oneness, and to me it is not mystical.  I feel that the universe is what this all is, everything.  The laws of physics are the universe, life is a result of the laws of physics, we are a creation or result of the universe, we are part of the universe, we essentially are the universe.  I am convinced that the universe is trying to understand it's self, and that's what we are.  We are part of the universe and we try to make sense of the universe, so really we are the universe trying to make sense of itself.  If the universe is a person, we are the mind.

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Smitington said:
and acting out of good conscience.


What is "good conscience"? Isn't anything that is considered to be good to an individual subjective? :strokebeard:




Went over this one just a few quotes back.



Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Smitington said:
God is not needed for any of this, and only creates problems.


God is not needed for shit. :glittershitz:




:2girls1cup:


--------------------


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InvisibleBand of Gypsys
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Re: The Non-Existence of God [Re: jivJaN]
    #11262850 - 10/16/09 11:53 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

:rofl2:

For Poid:  Dictionary


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InvisibleChronic7
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Posts: 13,677
Re: The Non-Existence of God [Re: Poid]
    #11263967 - 10/17/09 06:10 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Its experiencing Awareness...



What do you mean by "it's"? :confused:





the experience of God... what is the thread about?

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Chronic777 said:
im seeing what he saw within, which is within all.



And what exactly would that be?





God, Consciousness, the Self, Awareness, what are we talking about here? :rolleyes:

Quote:

Poid said:
Do you think it's possible to perceive others' perceptions? :lol:





I already said its not seeing any object the Buddha saw, its seeing what he saw in meditation.

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Everything comes from this, lives in this, dissolves in this
I Am This.




What is "This"? :confused:





Are you serious!?
Awareness, God, Consciousness...



:peace:


--------------------
________________________________


Edited by Chronic7 (10/17/09 06:24 AM)


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The Non-Existence of God [Re: Chronic7]
    #11265614 - 10/17/09 03:01 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ahimsa said:
poid said:

Quote:

So there's something you know that you're not telling us because you can't form the words, for whatever reason.




For a long time, many years of this life, i searched for truth. And then one day, i realised, that what i was trying to do was 'formulate' the truth. But the 'truth', 'reality', 'god', 'self'... it's not of that nature that it can be formulated. It is not a knowledge to be obtained. Seen, there isn't a thing separate from it, ever, but i had to find out by going through that long process of 'searching for the truth'.
And maybe it sounds like clich?but eventually i arrived where i started, only with the difference that now i don't have to search for the answer to my question.
Out of ignorance i searched. Having seen the futility of my attempt was finding wisdom. The wisdom that brings this very mind in perspective.

When the mind only minds the mind, then the 'truth', 'reality', 'god', 'self' stands alone and shines.
This realisation is wisdom in action, expressing it is kindness... :heartpump:

Oh my!



Nothing you wrote here tells me anything about whether or not "God" exists! :sorry:



Quote:

Jaegar said:
Poid you have a great critical thinking mind on you its a pleasure to read your rebuttals. :ooo:


Thank you! :mypleasure:



Quote:

jivJaN said:
Quote:

Who's "they"?



:smile:

Quote:

What do you mean by "it's"?



:smile:

Quote:

And what exactly would that be?



:smile:

Quote:

Again, WTF do you mean by "it's"?



:smile:

Quote:

What is "This"?



:smile:


:rofl:  :rofl2:


:heartpump:



Troll. Flamer. :flamethrow::onfire:

:tongue:



Quote:

Smitington said:
Quote:

Smitington said:
"God Consciousness" is just another type of our consciousness.




Quote:

Poid said:
This is one definition, yes, but there are other conflicting ones, too.

What do you mean by "another type of consciousness"? Don't you know that consciousness is most likely a mechanism of a living brain?




I'm saying it's just part of who we are part of what the universe is, what ever God Consciousness is. I personally think I've experienced it once, or what I wanted to call God Consciousness, while I was on ayahuasca.  To me it was like mind in it's purest form, just being, outside of all the other bullshit, kind of like what chronic is saying.  If I have led you to think that I am a mystical/magical believer, I am not, I have a very scientific and logical mind.





What you've experienced on ayahuasca in terms of "God" will never be exactly the same as what a different individual can or will experience; this is precisely why either everyone who believes in "God" (with the exception of one person) is wrong, or the God theory is false.



Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Smitington said:
When we fail to realize this we create the idea of God as being an entity outside of ourselves, and then religion forms.


Yeah, this is one of thousands (or perhaps even million) of partial definitions of "God".

True, whatever it maybe, I don't believe in God's or religions.


As long as you don't have any undeniable proof of their existence, this is probably a good thing. :thumbup:



Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Smitington said:
We should never be concerned with pleasing "God", we should act with good nature (which is also an inherent part of us (your conscience)) for the betterment of the universe as a whole.


Prove it. :rolleyes:




About the conscience part?  It is my personal experience that we all know what right and wrong are...


:rofl2:



Quote:

Smitington said:
...and it is true that they are relative, but within similiar means and backgrounds, right and wrong mean roughly  the same thing, so we know what is right and wrong relative to ourselves.


:rofl2:



Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Smitington said:
Spirituality in my eyes should be enwrapping yourself in the mystery of life


What does this mean? What is "spirituality"?




...doing the right thing, that's all I mean by it.


WTF is the "right thing"? :strokebeard:



Quote:

Smitington said:
We are part of the universe and we try to make sense of the universe, so really we are the universe trying to make sense of itself.  If the universe is a person, we are the mind.


I agree with your first sentence, but not so much with your second one; how can the entire universe be a person? :confused:



Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Its experiencing Awareness...



What do you mean by "it's"? :confused:





the experience of God... what is the thread about?


It's about how no two people have the exact same definition for the term 'God', and how it logically follows from this that either every "God" believer (except for one) is wrong, or the God theory is false.



Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Chronic777 said:
im seeing what he saw within, which is within all.



And what exactly would that be?





God, Consciousness, the Self, Awareness, what are we talking about here? :rolleyes:

Quote:

Poid said:
Do you think it's possible to perceive others' perceptions? :lol:





I already said its not seeing any object the Buddha saw, its seeing what he saw in meditation.


There's absolutely no way to know if you and "the" "Buddha" are seeing the exact same thing. :nonono:



Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Everything comes from this, lives in this, dissolves in this
I Am This.




What is "This"? :confused:





Are you serious!?
Awareness, God, Consciousness...



:peace:


Is this all you do? Fallacious circular reasoning? :haha:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Non-Existence of God [Re: Poid]
    #11265629 - 10/17/09 03:04 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Your definition requires multiple
levels of circular reasoning
and erroneous assumptions
forming a beautiful and
intricate fractalline fallacy.


--------------------


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The Non-Existence of God [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11266154 - 10/17/09 04:56 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Everytime I read or remind myself of that quote in your signature, I think about Chronic777's posts and do a ":facepalm:" IRL. :sadyes:


Edited by Poid (10/18/09 04:53 PM)


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OfflineAhimsa
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Re: The Non-Existence of God [Re: Poid]
    #11266441 - 10/17/09 05:58 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Nothing you wrote here tells me anything about whether or not "God" exists!




Exactly. When i know that these things are the workings of the mind, what further negating or asserting about 'truth' or 'god' do i need any more?

'The absolute is the relative expression of itself.'

Besides,  we make 'god' whatever we want 'god' to be, or not be. Really, that is a personal thing. Would you be surprised if i told you that 'god' doesn't always exist?  That 'god' is just as impermanent as anything else? That 'god' and the creation are mutually dependent? That some people prefer to say 'nature' or 'love' or 'reality' or 'truth' or 'self' rather than 'god'?

More specifically, i have tried and figure out the truth about the logic we use to negate/assert these things.

Something can't come from nothing, therefore saying 'it exists' is saying is always existed.
If so then it has no cause. How can it exist without a cause?
Nothing can't come from something, therefore saying 'it doesn't exist' is saying it never existed.
If so then it has no cause. How can it not exist without a cause?


Now tell me, does 'exists' or 'does not exist' still apply to 'god'?



Edited by Ahimsa (10/17/09 06:45 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Non-Existence of God [Re: Chronic7]
    #11267397 - 10/17/09 08:57 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Those who claim the concept of God has no foundation whatsoever...

What about the experience of God Consciousness by Saints, Sages & Seers from all religions?

These religions were spread all over the globe, separated, at times when communication between them would be impossible, yet they all (in some way) talk of God having attribues of Infinity, Consciousness, Love, Bliss, Peace etc...

All these Sages must have somehow been deluded by the same thing that doesn't exist
How is this possible if they had no communication with each other?

They all Say 'Look Within'
So if the experience of God Consciousness comes from total lack of external influence (meditation)
How can any then claim that the experience comes from religious conditioning?
The Sages didnt even have religious teachings as the religions were created AFTER they lived

Religions are based on the words of the Sages, who experience God-Consciousness
Then people consciousness creates religion & corrupt it

:peace:





Are you serious? Humans are basically the same wherever you find them. Emotionally or otherwise. Basic fears and death anxieties and ignorance of how things might actually work would have the same effect for the most part everywhere. The fact that all these religions are variable in imagery and such is the really telling thing IMO. Only slight variations would exist as the prime motivator would be the same for all. The variations would be due to the personality differences and environmental differences in individual primates and in location.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSmitington
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Re: The Non-Existence of God [Re: Icelander]
    #11267927 - 10/17/09 10:38 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Poid, you are hung up on the term God Consciousness, when I use it at least, it is just a term, nothing more, nothing magical or mystical implied by it.  It is simply experiencing pure being. I was using the term because chronic used it, I am curious, chronic if you are reading this, why do you call it God Consciousness?

About knowing what is right and what is wrong, it's a simple human mechanism.  I'm trying to tell you that I believe we all have a sense of "good" and "wrong", just like we have a sense of hunger and sexuality.  It can be very complicated however knowing what is right and wrong, because our conscience is something that is very easy for us to ignore, it gets covered up by our greed, this is why I believe in deep personal reflection and humility, if you practise these things you will become more and more intouch with your conscience.

Also, Poid, I want to make another point for you.  I personally have a scientific mind, but over the years I have grown "wiser" maybe, and I realize that when I was in my phase of understanding the world scientifically, I would look at something that Chronic writes and think it is pure bullshit, but now I understand how his writings really are not against science at all.  It's a complicated idea, alot of scientific thinkers often get trapped in their scientific thinking, maybe someday you will understand what I am trying to say, I'm sorry I can't put it into better words right now.  You have to look at science for what it is.  It has it's place, but there is more to the human experience than science, science is not the holy grail of the universe that scientists sometimes think.  Really what does science do for us?  It helps our technology, our understanding of concepts, it's breaking down religion and bringing the world together, it is really a powerful thing, but you have to understand that it does have it's limits.  Sure it can explain most phenomena we may witness, but it only explains it in a scientific way.  It cannot truly tell us why we are here, why we exist, why something truly even happened in the first place, sure it can explain the causality that lead to an event, but can it explain why causality lead to that event?  Too much scientific thinking sometimes stops people from understanding metaphoric ideas also, which can explain soo much with so little words that pure logical scientifically accurate statements cannot.


--------------------


Edited by Smitington (10/17/09 10:44 PM)


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