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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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hobos, beggars, and the homeless
    #11249455 -

Just an hour or so ago I waved a beggar off.  I didn't even give him the time of day.  He was trying the whole, "Do you got a light?" routine, and I didn't even bother to slow down. 

I've got conflicted emotions about this.  A) I don't want to give him any money but B)I've got way more money than his broke ass.  But then there's C) I don't carry any cash with me ever.

I remember I cut this one guy off at the chase.  I said, "I don't have any money," right as he was trying to get me to press the flesh with him.  He stopped mid swing.  The other guy sitting next to him started laughing.  Then the dude tried to get me to go to the ATM machine and withdraw some and give it to him ( or something) I walked off in mid sentence.  I was sort of indignant.  The guy wanted me to go and wrack up $6 in fees and then have a $20 that I was supposed to give him or some shit.  I swear.  Just because you don't want to give them money, they act like you've got tons of the shit.  I don't!  Living on $145 a week here.  Poor college student.  Barely scrapping by myself.  Can't afford to pay for your booze and cig habit hobo!  Back the fuck up!

I mean, seriously, this conflicts me.  Part of me feels like my values tell me to try to help these people out with a little bit of my money, but damn!  It's my money.  And it never ends!  Every damned time I walk down the street.

And then on top of all that, I know that me posting about it is just me trying to tell myself that I didn't do anything wrong.  It's like I am having to reassure myself that I'm not a bad person.

I volunteer my time for an hour and a half once a week at a nursing home.  I guess I'm just compartmentalizing my life or some crap.
:monkeydance:
/rant


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: youbreakyoubuy] * 1
    #11249554 -

nah i used to feel bad for homeless/beggers and give them whatever i could spare.

over the years i've realized they really are just people who don't want to do anything else.

until i am living in my own financial dreams, i'm not gonna give anything to someone for absolutely no reason.

i've been getting ruder and ruder to beggers lately.

i mean around here there are alot of non-homeless beggers.  just poor people trying to get money from white kids at night.

and honestly they can go fuck themselves, at least the homeless are often mentally ill and have a good excuse.


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You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: truekimbo2]
    #11249588 -

:shrug: i usually give em a dollar or two if i got it even though im usually broke, as long as they don't appear dangerous.

when 2012 comes the homeless people will be the most highly trained to fend for themselves on the street, they will become the kings of the middle/lower class who will then have to learn from them


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My statistical assumption is that chemical tapering should begin when the rate of visiting ODD exceeds the rate of visiting Pub, or any other Shroomery forum.

Edited by Nuggetpouch (10/14/09 10:33 PM)

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: youbreakyoubuy] * 1
    #11249595 -

I've found that the best way to stop them from asking you for money is to ask them for money first. Trust me and try it, you'll :lol:


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: Nuggetpouch]
    #11249606 -

Nuggetpouch said:
:shrug: i usually give em a dollar or two if i got it even though im usually broke, as long as they don't appear dangerous.

when 2012 comes the homeless people will be the most highly trained to fend for themselves on the street, they will become the kings of the middle/lower class who will then have to learn from them



IF the apocalypse happens.








But back in the real world of social darwinism, they'll die off as an endangered species. I have no remorse in turning down the fuckers.


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大开眼界

:awegroove:
:fbsnugs::fbsnugs::fbsnugs:
Hasta siempre, comandante.
:mattz:

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11249637 -

youbreakyoubuy said:
He was trying the whole, "Do you got a light?"



i've done this in the past. and guess what? i was with out a lighter and had an unlit ciggerate.:rolleyes:

im not a bum, me lighters just die at  the worst times :crazy2:


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EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT


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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: truekimbo2]
    #11249641 -

Do what my friend did when he lived in the city lace your shoes up with speaker wire LOL. Every time they asked him for a $1 he said if you give me your shoe laces I will give you a $1. His reasoning is that no one would ever part with their shoe laces because its a real pain in the ass to walk with no laces on your shoes. One day a guy with boots pulled that on him and he used the line and the guy gave him his boot laces so my friend gave him a $1. My friend had these thing s hanging on his wall forever every time he would talk about it he would laugh and say man I ripped that guy off boot laces cost way more than a $1.

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: blewmeanie]
    #11249643 -

That's a great idea! I may have to do that. :awesome:


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I honor the place in you in which the entire universe dwells. I honor the place in you which is of love. of truth. of light, and of peace. When you are in that place in you and I am in that place in me. We are one.

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: meatcakeman]
    #11249660 -

I don't even know what to say still.  The whole thing just puts a bad taste in my mouth.  As soon as one starts coming toward me, I get a little jittery.  I'm no dummy.  I know that legitimate homeless tend to be a little kookey.  Who knows how they'll behave?

And the biggest thing is:  I'm always on my way somewhere.  I'm  not usually in the mindset to be jawing away with some homeless trying to part me and my money.

Dammit.  I'm still coming across as tightfisted.  bah.


bah humbug.


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: Salomon]
    #11249674 -

Nah.  I'm pretty sure that's this guys work up.

I'm 90% sure he's tried to do it to me before on the same exact corner.


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: blewmeanie]
    #11249680 -

my dad sees this one beggar at this intersection all the time. One day, he sees him at the grocery store in a huge pickup truck with hundreds of cans in the bed. Some homeless people are genuinely fucked and stuck in their situation. I would argue a majority that panhandle are able bodied but just plain lazey. I wasnt born with a silver spoon in my mouth and i've had to buy and work for most of the things i own. I even have to pay for school. I believe in meritocracy and it pisses me off competent people beg all day, sometimes getting more than minimum wage. Sometimes i throw pennies at their feet. Other times i simply ignore.

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11249682 -

Or get yourself a Segway and just outrun them without breaking a sweat.

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: 1upshroom] * 1
    #11249712 -

We need to figure out how to set up some sort of nignore system for all the people who ask me for change.


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11249722 -

Headphones.


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I honor the place in you in which the entire universe dwells. I honor the place in you which is of love. of truth. of light, and of peace. When you are in that place in you and I am in that place in me. We are one.

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: HappyTrippin]
    #11249726 -

give them an i.o.u paper

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: weathereporter88]
    #11249731 -

Get them those novelty winning lottery cards.


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I honor the place in you in which the entire universe dwells. I honor the place in you which is of love. of truth. of light, and of peace. When you are in that place in you and I am in that place in me. We are one.

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11249739 -

youbreakyoubuy said:
We need to figure out how to set up some sort of nignore system for all the people who ask me for change.


Why don't you simply tell them to fuck off?


If you don't want to give them your money, then why should you feel any sympathy towards them.


Come off with a certain gravitas and just tell them how you feel; that you absolutely do not want to give them shit.


If anything, ask them to do a dance. At least, then, they earned the cash.


--------------------
大开眼界

:awegroove:
:fbsnugs::fbsnugs::fbsnugs:
Hasta siempre, comandante.
:mattz:

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: meatcakeman]
    #11249764 -

I never give people money.

I just tell them to fuck off.

I work to hard for what i have.


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~The Cultivators Motherload~

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein

"There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama

Live long and prosper.


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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: meatcakeman]
    #11249779 -

I can't just tell someone to fuck off.  I believe (or I try to tell myself anyway) that everybody is worth something.  Telling someone to fuck off lacks compassion.  And at the end of the day, I feel that if there's one value that I'd like to be remembered for at my funeral, it's compassion.

Gravitas is a hard one for me.  Most of the time I get all jittered out when some random person breaks through while I'm in my headspace.

There's no way I could straight faced tell a grown man to do a dance for a few bills worth of change.

I could do twenty questions or some crap though.

Regardless, your right about the whole honesty angle.  I need to stop faking and just be sincere to them.  I'll try to keep that in mind next time that I run into this issue.


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11249792 -

i mentioned this some time ago but I have seen on television that panhandlers can make $100+ in a day if they are on their game. They just jump into a cycle of collecting cash, getting booze/drugs, sometimes food if they don't find scraps, and back to begging. Sometimes you see someone with a more legit reason to be on the street and I will almost always hand them a buck or two. You can really tell sometimes if the person simply looks greedy(the people who approach you with some line).

You shouldn't feel bad though. Obama has a lot of change :crazy2:

besides, they don't know your story just like you don't know theirs. nobody has place to judge, regardless if you choose to help or not. Unfortunately it's just too hard to decipher who is honestly deserving. You may possibly be helping someone who just finished robbing someone for some crack money! but then again, we just live in a shitty system


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If there were no rewards to reap,No loving embrace to see me through
This tedious path I've chosen here,I certainly would've walked away by now.
Gonna wait it out.
If there were no desire to heal The damaged and broken met along
This tedious path I've chosen hereI certainly would've walked away by now.
And I still may ... (sigh) ... I still may.Be patient.
I must keep reminding myself of this.

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: youbreakyoubuy] * 1
    #11249828 -

i don't see any reason to make them feel any worse than they already do... i seriously doubt that most people on the street begging for spare change are doing so purely by choice. i don't know their story and i don't really care.. but its unlikely that they want to be living like that. there's a big difference between telling them to fuck off because i have nothing to spare and degrading a person.

don't feel bad for ignoring them, or even telling them to fuck off... most of us don't have extra cash to be throwing around.. but don't be the douche that makes them give up their shoelaces for a dollar. that's fucked.  :nonono:

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11249835 -

youbreakyoubuy said:
I don't even know what to say still.  The whole thing just puts a bad taste in my mouth.  As soon as one starts coming toward me, I get a little jittery.  I'm no dummy.  I know that legitimate homeless tend to be a little kookey.  Who knows how they'll behave?

And the biggest thing is:  I'm always on my way somewhere.  I'm  not usually in the mindset to be jawing away with some homeless trying to part me and my money.

Dammit.  I'm still coming across as tightfisted.  bah.


bah humbug.


Hey man, I understand the frustration- although they're much less aggressive here in Long Beach, than los angeles. But here are the facts: You're broke and don't have money to give, and they're not going anywhere.

This situation will not change unless either 1) you move or,  2) you ignore them and keep saying 'sorry'.

Ideally, there would be no homeless, along cockroaches/centipedes/and all the shit we hate to see/deal with- but this is planet Earth, this is America, this is us and the situation, and the only way to move forward is to deal with it.


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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: Neuron]
    #11249871 -



For whatever reason this movie came to mind.


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: desiretoheal]
    #11249961 -

There's a guy that sets up a hot dog stand outside of the bar I go to near my university. One night, me and my friend were standing outside. A hobo comes up and starts talking shit about the hot dog vendor:

Hobo: "Man, fuck that. I can buy me a package of hot dogs and I got a loaf of bread where I sleep and I'd be good."
Me: "Boy, you sure are thrifty for a hobo. Why are you homeless again?"

And then we both gave him a dollar.


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monstermitch's technique to construct a monotob
agar's GRAIN LC
THE OFFICIAL "BEST DEALS" THREAD

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: Brennus]
    #11250019 -

in my college town you would get to know the beggers by face, even if they didn't remember yours.  half the time they'd make up bullshit stories "yeah man, i'm just trying to get a little cash for a bus ticket to see my family", yet you'd see them still there the next week, and the next and the next.  i used to feel sorry for them, but i became desensitized.  fuck just blatant begging.  half the guys are still somewhat young, and seem rather industrious as they bustle about begging, why can't they work?

beggers who've got something to offer, i feel more sympathetic towards.  those playing music, or selling flowers or something along those lines, i'm more inclined to give money, assuming i have it.


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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #11250140 -

See where im from we dont really have what you are all describing
as "Beggars", we have
A)Street Kids/Squeegee kids
B)Legit homeless people ie:shopping cart people/dumpster divers
C)Random Hobos.....
so i cant really say that i detest them, because most of them dont
outright ask you for money, so if i see these people sitting along the street im walking on
i'll give them food, but i will never give my hard
earned money away, because like youve all said you never know
where its going and im not funding some randoms drug problem,
but i will give food with no remorse whatsoever, everyone needs
to eat.


--------------------

Synchronicity is an ever present reality
for those who have eyes to see.

Meditation is the dissolution of thoughts in Eternal awareness or Pure consciousness
without objectification, knowing without thinking, merging finitude in infinity.

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: lost in Ummagumma]
    #11250185 -

even giving the beggers food in my college town proved futile every once in a while.  a friend bought a begger a 6" sub.  brand new, never unwrapped.  the begger thanked him profusely then walked off.  2 minutes later my friend saw the begger in the distance rifling through the sandwich.  he pulled out like two pieces of meat and tossed the rest in the garbage.

that's just fucked.

another time early in my college experience before i was jaded to the plight of that specific community, i was propositioned for money by a begger.  i told him i didn't have any cash, but was about to grab a sandwich and could get him a small one if he liked.  he turned down my offer.  :shrug:


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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: blewmeanie]
    #11250198 -

blewmeanie said:
I've found that the best way to stop them from asking you for money is to ask them for money first. Trust me and try it, you'll :lol:


Ive done that and got change from one once.  I was out delivering pizza, he came up to me and asked me for change - I told him I needed change and he gave me around ten cents.  Cheapskate.

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: DieCommie]
    #11250214 -

:lol:/well done, I just get confused looks.


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: DieCommie]
    #11250245 -

Quote:
Cheapskate.


:ilold:


--------------------

Synchronicity is an ever present reality
for those who have eyes to see.

Meditation is the dissolution of thoughts in Eternal awareness or Pure consciousness
without objectification, knowing without thinking, merging finitude in infinity.

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: lost in Ummagumma]
    #11250374 -

I've had a few occasions of having a beer in my pocket or bag, and just being like "uhh, how 'bout a beer instead."

One dude succeeded in hugging me after that...

But that's only because I support self destruction through substance abuse. Usually I just ignore or say no.

Buskers always get a few coins or a buck, so long as they're not polluting with shitty music.


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"Yeah, he's a professor...... OF BEING A DOG!"

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: desiretoheal]
    #11250518 -

If they have the right corner they can make bank.  I read this one article about a guy that had his corner and made 80K a year, tax free, he doesn't have to buy nice things, so a large part of it is just sitting in a bank somewhere.

Don't feel sorry for them, realize that there are plenty of people who are too nice who will give him money, feel sorry for them.  This fool is swindling them.

If I have a dollar in my pocket (which isn't often) I will give it to them but never bust out your wallet.  My friend learned the hard way in NOLA.

I'll come back sometimes with a value meal and offer it to them.  Many times they decline because they are just looking for their next fix.

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #26874271 -

I have been homeless for a year praying to get my id so I can work like a man is supposed to....finally without being clipped for the birth cetificate I have to pay 33 dollars for..  For the third time.  Ss card vanished twice and ive got only one more chance to make that count for the rest of the year... Its obvious to me someone hates my guts.. But who is the mystery..

Anyway... Your entitled to your own money and that is definitely your right.. I do not get mad at your reaction, and as a matter of fact I dont get along with agressive panhandling.. Its not anyones place to raise anyone and its definately ones right to do as they wish with thier hard earned money... People who getblivid at those who dont help (and there has been sityations where I have talked my amount of trash to the passersby but my situation is a little bit different... What with thr gangstalking issues...)
At the end of the day though, one should not have that sense of entiglement towards things of that nature... Period... If ppl help me then I greatly do appreciate it.. Whether it be a cola , a sandwich, or even conversation as long as its without malicious intent... God bless those...
I have a hard time dealing with the ones who laugh at my pain... That type of stuff is uncalled for


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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: Fade_To_Black]
    #26874378 -

It just depends on my mood and what I'm currently doing when homeless people ask for money.

Case by case basis - a few dollars can go a long way for helping them out...could buy a meal or some water  :thumbup:

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #26874706 -

youbreakyoubuy said:
I've got conflicted emotions about this.  A) I don't want to give him any money but B)I've got way more money than his broke ass.  But then there's C) I don't carry any cash with me ever.


Those are all fair points. Here's another one: money is just a bandage for homeless people. It's a temporary solution that lasts for about as long as the money itself lasts. Ideally, it'll go towards a hotel room or a meal rather than towards drugs or alcohol, but even in those cases, that's still a temporary solution to homelessness. The best solution to homelessness is to have a home, but that's far easier said than done.

To a certain extent, I believe homeless people are responsible for their own situations, but I think there's also some truth to the claim that it's extremely difficult to dig yourself out of homelessness once you're deep in it. Even if you're clean from drugs and alcohol, spending your money only on food and lodgings, it's still difficult to find a job if you don't have regular access to a shower, clean clothes, transportation, and social connections. I'm not saying it's impossible, but the cards are definitely stacked against the homeless. To that end, I think we need to find a more sustainable solution at a societal level to address the problem of poverty and homelessness. IMO, a big step in the right direction would be more accessible mental health services. Think about how many homeless people would benefit from a professional to help them with addiction alone.

All of that said, handing money to a homeless person isn't making a wide, societal change. It's not a bad thing to do, and I don't think it really adds to the problem of homelessness. It might brighten someone's day if you're feeling generous enough to do it, but it's still just a temporary solution to a problem that runs much deeper than one individual's choices. I wouldn't beat yourself up for holding back your cash, either. If you're a debt-ridden, middle class college student in the U.S., you're at a disadvantage in the same economic system that suppresses homeless people (albeit, to a far less severe degree).

TL;DR: I don't think it makes you a shitty person to hold back your cash from homeless people. Homelessness is a mostly systemic issue that requires a systemic solution. Giving someone money isn't a sustainable solution to homelessness. It's not a bad thing to do, and it might make one homeless person's day a little bit easier, but I also don't think you're shitty for not doing it.


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Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: youbreakyoubuy] * 2
    #26877004 -

Beggar says to me: "you got any change?"

My response: "Change comes from within."

I do occasionally give some cash if I have it, but the poster above me is right. A good start would be to have a lot of the old empty buildings just sitting there as tax write offs for rich people turned into shelters. The able bodied homeless could renovate and so on with the other people who have cooking skills, sewing, plumbing, electricians, etc....oh, wait, that would mean that the rich people WOULD HAVE TO TAKE JUST LITTLE BIT FUCKING LESS!!!!!:mad2:


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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: tyrannicalrex] * 1
    #26877143 -

tyrannicalrex said:
Beggar says to me: "you got any change?"

My response: "Change comes from within."




and then homeless person be like

:whateverhuman:


--------------------
:niffla:

ACADEMY AWARD WINNING ACTOR
WG32 KILLED HOFFA
PROFESSIONAL BALL BUFFERER
WORST NEIGHBORHOOD YARD OF 2026 WINNER
OTD’S FORMER PRODIGAL SON
TODAY IS BEER DAY

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: Nifflerz] * 1
    #26877984 -

Actually one time a guy got a little mad and said "well gimme a dollar then!" yelled it at me, I haven't done it since. It was in NOLA.


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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26878339 -

When I was driving back from New Mexico this weekend I stopped at one of the truck stops and there was this guy sitting in a lawn chair off the service road with a sign saying he was trying to get to California. I thought about pulling out some cash for him out of the ATM...but I didn't :sad:

Then as I headed off and was already on the highway I was wishing I would've given the guy like 20 bucks to help with his quest. He had some luggage with him and this travel stop was in the middle of nowhere so I tend to believe that he was legitimately heading to California.


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:niffla:

ACADEMY AWARD WINNING ACTOR
WG32 KILLED HOFFA
PROFESSIONAL BALL BUFFERER
WORST NEIGHBORHOOD YARD OF 2026 WINNER
OTD’S FORMER PRODIGAL SON
TODAY IS BEER DAY

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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: Nifflerz]
    #26878346 -

You just never know really.:shrug:


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Re: hobos, beggars, and the homeless [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26878367 -

tyrannicalrex said:
You just never know really.:shrug:


That's true. Could just be a ploy. I've heard lots of stories about panhandlers absolutely cleaning up. Like making $100 give or take a day. I've heard of schemes where supposedly a woman will "borrow" a baby from one of their friends for a fee and then sit out there with the baby and ask for money.

There's a guy out here not far from where I live who sits out with his dog in the unbearable heat asking for money. From what I can tell he kills it out there. You just know that tons of folks feel for the dog (I do also of course) which of course factors heavily in their decision to give him money over some other panhandler out there who don't have a dog. And that poor dog has nowhere to go to escape the blazing sun when he/she's out there. I hope in his case he has no other choice but to bring his dog with him, and not just using the dog as a tool for people to feel sorry for him thus increasing his daily take.


--------------------
:niffla:

ACADEMY AWARD WINNING ACTOR
WG32 KILLED HOFFA
PROFESSIONAL BALL BUFFERER
WORST NEIGHBORHOOD YARD OF 2026 WINNER
OTD’S FORMER PRODIGAL SON
TODAY IS BEER DAY

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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