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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,439
Loc: mumuland
"Antichrist" by Lars von Trier
    #11237546 - 10/13/09 03:53 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Often people in this forum ask for philosophical film recommendations. Here is one. I recommend Antichrist (2009) by Lars von Trier. The film has been attacked in Scandinavian, European and American newpapers as it is thought to be misogynistic. It was shown in Cannes and given an antiaward from the ecumenical jury, which anitawarded the film for its alleged misogynistic and antihumanistic/antiChristian views.

All of this controversy is, at closer analysis, ridiculous and quite far away from the reality presented in the film. To find misogyny in it would be to disregard overwhelming contrary evidence presented in the movie, to miss the point and, by cultural conditioning, identify with the "wrong" character(s)/narratives.

I do not want to tell you what Antichrist is about, or go into too much detail yet, as that would color your viewing with the film's philosophical, sociological, psychological, spiritual and political implications. See it and then come back and bump the thread.



Edited by Lakefingers (10/13/09 03:59 AM)


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OfflineJerkman
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Re: "Antichrist" by Lars von Trier [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11237742 - 10/13/09 06:10 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

:thumbup: I recommend it too.

I'd like to add that it is beautifully shot and the tension it creates is intense.

A unique experience, IMO.


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InvisibleOlympus Mons
esprit de l'univers

Registered: 09/15/09
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Re: "Antichrist" by Lars von Trier [Re: Jerkman]
    #11237943 - 10/13/09 08:17 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

i heard about this, it's  got funny face greengoblin in it.


--------------------
I close my eyes and seize it
I clench my fists and beat it
I light my torch and burn it
I am the beast I worship....


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OfflineTheBalance
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Re: "Antichrist" by Lars von Trier [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11238429 - 10/13/09 11:39 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Where can I find it...??


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,439
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Re: "Antichrist" by Lars von Trier [Re: TheBalance]
    #11244017 - 10/14/09 04:40 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

If you use torrents then here. If you don't know how to use torrents just download Tranmission (or similar program), download torrent file, drag and drop in open torrent program, choose folder to download to and wait.

Or go to: Torrentz.com - Antichrist or search for it at The Pirate Bay or Mininova
or on a DirectConnect film hub, HMV.com, moviezoo, amazon.co.uk, amazon.com.


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OfflineTheBalance
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Re: "Antichrist" by Lars von Trier [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11245243 - 10/14/09 01:02 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

THNX:thumbup:


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OfflineTheBalance
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Re: "Antichrist" by Lars von Trier [Re: TheBalance]
    #11252003 - 10/15/09 12:11 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

See it and then come back and bump the thread.

Definitely intense.

Still wondering how to feel about it...

Beautiful lighting and cinematography.


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InvisibleOlympus Mons
esprit de l'univers

Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 5,777
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Re: "Antichrist" by Lars von Trier [Re: TheBalance]
    #11253004 - 10/15/09 02:56 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

i just saw the scene where the baby bird fell out of the tree into the ant bed, and then the falcon swooped down and ripped his head off. now that's bleak.


--------------------
I close my eyes and seize it
I clench my fists and beat it
I light my torch and burn it
I am the beast I worship....


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,439
Loc: mumuland
Re: "Antichrist" by Lars von Trier [Re: TheBalance]
    #11253266 - 10/15/09 03:35 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

WARNING:
FOR THOSE ARRIVING TO THE THREAD, SPOILERS FOLLOW BELOW

What do you think the film was about?

How about we start with the Tarkovsky quote. You know why it's dedicated to Tarkovsky?


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,439
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Re: "Antichrist" by Lars von Trier [Re: Olympus Mons]
    #11253279 - 10/15/09 03:38 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Olympus Mons said:
i just saw the scene where the baby bird fell out of the tree into the ant bed, and then the falcon swooped down and ripped his head off. now that's bleak.




Don't interrupt by writing here :smile: Watch it in the dark undisturbed. Get back when you're done, tell us what you felt, gathered and thought.


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OfflineBigwigwabbit
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Re: "Antichrist" by Lars von Trier [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11253544 - 10/15/09 04:14 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Cool! I'll have 2 chck it l8r


--------------------
Learning 2 grow!!!


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OfflineTheBalance
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Re: "Antichrist" by Lars von Trier [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11253604 - 10/15/09 04:23 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

What do you think the film was about?




I think I need to see it again.

Which quote?

No.


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OfflineTheBalance
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Re: "Antichrist" by Lars von Trier [Re: TheBalance]
    #11253634 - 10/15/09 04:28 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Inability to accept death/nature...
Leading to rebellion against death/nature...
The influence of misplaced grief and the inability to forgive and cope.
Sexual anxieties and release...
The rise of violence.


Those are some things I was thinking.

I've yet to pull it all together though.

Think I should see it again in a more analytical frame of mind.

Shits graphic.:eek:


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InvisibleOlympus Mons
esprit de l'univers

Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 5,777
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Re: "Antichrist" by Lars von Trier [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11253760 - 10/15/09 04:45 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Lakefingers said:
Quote:

Olympus Mons said:
i just saw the scene where the baby bird fell out of the tree into the ant bed, and then the falcon swooped down and ripped his head off. now that's bleak.




Don't interrupt by writing here :smile: Watch it in the dark undisturbed. Get back when you're done, tell us what you felt, gathered and thought.



i cringed at a few parts in this movie, which is a first for me. It's hard to say what i think it was about, at first it seemed pretty cut and dry and then there were talking animals. Did anyone else notice how the dialog had a weird reverb effect to it? what's that about? their voices echoed as if they were in an large open cathedral, or inside of a deep dark mind. if i had to take a stab at it, i'd say it was about the cruelty that is nature and the toll it takes on creatures who have forgotten it.


--------------------
I close my eyes and seize it
I clench my fists and beat it
I light my torch and burn it
I am the beast I worship....


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,439
Loc: mumuland
Re: "Antichrist" by Lars von Trier [Re: TheBalance]
    #11257686 - 10/16/09 04:33 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TheBalance said:
Quote:

What do you think the film was about?




I think I need to see it again.

Which quote?

No.




Good starting point: The film is dedicated to Tarkovsky. The film uses symbolism. Tarkovsky heavily used symbolism in his films. Regarding symbolism Tarkovsky said 'if you search for meaning in the film , you will miss everything that happens'.

I don't fully agree with that, but I believe it's a relevant point to bring up because many critics have tried to analyze the film and gotten it all wrong, missing the experience of it. Yet some of us simply may want to analyze it, and also, analysis can deepen understanding, appreciation and viewing experience the second time around.

One thing you might want to think about the next time around is why the film is called what it is, what the gender symbol on the T (film cover, posters) stands for. Why the intense dialog with man, woman (why are the characters called he and she?), why there is this distinction between inside/ouside. The meaning of the three animals; also the dialetic happening between control and nature...


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,439
Loc: mumuland
Re: "Antichrist" by Lars von Trier [Re: Olympus Mons]
    #11257696 - 10/16/09 04:37 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Olympus Mons said:
i cringed at a few parts in this movie, which is a first for me. It's hard to say what i think it was about, at first it seemed pretty cut and dry and then there were talking animals. Did anyone else notice how the dialog had a weird reverb effect to it? what's that about? their voices echoed as if they were in an large open cathedral, or inside of a deep dark mind. if i had to take a stab at it, i'd say it was about the cruelty that is nature and the toll it takes on creatures who have forgotten it.




I noticed the audio enhancement. It gave the film a dreamlike, sinister, distant effect and also muffled the relationship, increasing claustrophobia and also increasing the sense that they were, someone, outside of time, had entered a realm that was psychologically or paranormally, more than forest or mind, something Eden-like.

Quote:

i'd say it was about the cruelty that is nature and the toll it takes on creatures who have forgotten it.




Would you say both he and she have forgotten it? There child?

How about the gender issues?


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,439
Loc: mumuland
Re: "Antichrist" by Lars von Trier [Re: TheBalance]
    #11257722 - 10/16/09 04:55 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TheBalance said:
Inability to accept death/nature...
Leading to rebellion against death/nature...
The influence of misplaced grief and the inability to forgive and cope.
Sexual anxieties and release...
The rise of violence.


Those are some things I was thinking.

I've yet to pull it all together though.

Think I should see it again in a more analytical frame of mind.

Shits graphic.:eek:




There's unquestionably something going on with our conceptions of nature, as three of us think, maybe for different reasons. Death is also an issue here, not only regarding the death and decay in the film, but also the confrontation with it and the anxieties stemming from death angst. There is also a strong sexual theme; bringing these characters into close proximity, showing nearly only them, and at the same time in a forest, a world several times depicted as unknown ("Chaos reigns", death overcoming life; rebirth; etc) and a vast wilderness surrounding them, secluding them.

Did you catch the part about her putting the shoes on backwards? Why do you think she did that? Do you think she was evil or is it something else that lead to her behavior?

When the he character plays nature, he says, I want to hurt you (with an intensely multilayered dialog happening here). We see also how he mentions that fear is the mind distorting reality, yet also, he is the one distorting it, and one can't help wonder if he, despite believing it, intends with this very statement to manipulate her, to pull her to his overly rational frame of mind and thus negate fear and her (to not only help her but suppress any emotion).

Regarding the misogyny accusation, I think that the people, such as the ecumenical jury at Cannes and many reporters, presuppose the rationality and goodness of he. In this control society we live in, it is inevitable that the viewer automatically identifies with "he". After a while, it seems impossible to reconcile this like with his extremely manipulative means of control. These critics, in saying the film is misogynistic, are the misogynists, who are unwilling to question their assumptions about the archetypes that he symbolizes.


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Invisibleshowme
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Re: "Antichrist" by Lars von Trier [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11257822 - 10/16/09 05:39 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

looks interesting. maybe i will.


--------------------
Imagination is the organ of meaning.


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InvisibleOlympus Mons
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Registered: 09/15/09
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Re: "Antichrist" by Lars von Trier [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11258180 - 10/16/09 08:37 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Lakefingers said:
Quote:

Olympus Mons said:
i cringed at a few parts in this movie, which is a first for me. It's hard to say what i think it was about, at first it seemed pretty cut and dry and then there were talking animals. Did anyone else notice how the dialog had a weird reverb effect to it? what's that about? their voices echoed as if they were in an large open cathedral, or inside of a deep dark mind. if i had to take a stab at it, i'd say it was about the cruelty that is nature and the toll it takes on creatures who have forgotten it.




I noticed the audio enhancement. It gave the film a dreamlike, sinister, distant effect and also muffled the relationship, increasing claustrophobia and also increasing the sense that they were, someone, outside of time, had entered a realm that was psychologically or paranormally, more than forest or mind, something Eden-like.

Quote:

i'd say it was about the cruelty that is nature and the toll it takes on creatures who have forgotten it.




Would you say both he and she have forgotten it? There child?

How about the gender issues?



i think it's mostly about her forgetting. At some points i felt like the guy wasnt even real. and then the ending really didnt make any sense to me. im not sure what to think about the gender thing. there is a lot to think about here.


--------------------
I close my eyes and seize it
I clench my fists and beat it
I light my torch and burn it
I am the beast I worship....


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,439
Loc: mumuland
Re: "Antichrist" by Lars von Trier [Re: Olympus Mons]
    #11258423 - 10/16/09 09:53 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Olympus Mons said:
i think it's mostly about her forgetting. At some points i felt like the guy wasnt even real. and then the ending really didnt make any sense to me. im not sure what to think about the gender thing. there is a lot to think about here.




What do you mean her forgetting? What did she forget?

By the end do you mean the epilogue? What happened there was after he 'took care of her', his emotions came out in full for the first time and the witches of Eden passed by him. That is, he finally became part of nature; he lost to it when it overtook him (which was one of the reasons the bird returned to life several times; he couldn't control nature/life & death).


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