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Amazon Shop: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Brown Rice Flour, Calcium Carbonate, Gypsum, Pressure Cooker, Vermiculite

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OfflineAtomHeartMother99
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What is wrong with these jars? - Now with pics
    #11232082 - 10/12/09 11:51 AM (8 years, 11 days ago)

My friend SWIM wanted me to post some pics of his jars...the ones that show growth are about 5 days old. The ones that have no growth are not noc'ed up. SWIM wants to know why his Sub goes in nice and loose and comes out blown up. Some jars look ok, but SWIM is really getting irritated trying to get his jars right. Thanks for the input fellow shroomers.

Thanks,

AHM99.





This pic shows what I am talking about. This jar looks awful!



Some decent growth....



More of the same.


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Invisibleprismism


Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,562
Re: What is wrong with these jars? - Now with pics [Re: AtomHeartMother99]
    #11232258 - 10/12/09 12:32 PM (8 years, 11 days ago)

i have no idea whats goin on..


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Invisibleprismism


Registered: 05/11/09
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Re: What is wrong with these jars? - Now with pics [Re: prismism]
    #11232260 - 10/12/09 12:32 PM (8 years, 11 days ago)



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OfflineRohs_John
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Re: What is wrong with these jars? - Now with pics [Re: AtomHeartMother99]
    #11232268 - 10/12/09 12:34 PM (8 years, 11 days ago)

The growth looks fine...

But there are a few issues that maybe you're aware of.

1.) The substrate looks a little to 'packed'... It should be a little bit fluffy.

2.) I think that jar may be larger than a half-pint. This is fine, but it might take longer to colonize.

3.) Your substrate seems to go to the top of the jar. It is best to have a little bit of dry space between the jar lid and your mix. This helps to prevent instant contaminations.

Other than this, the growth looks fine. Better than what I have after 5 days with BRF (brown rice flour) + verm.


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InvisibleSlimz
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Re: What is wrong with these jars? - Now with pics [Re: Rohs_John]
    #11232324 - 10/12/09 12:46 PM (8 years, 11 days ago)

should be like this
Code:

-------------- < lid
< airspace
##############
############## < dry verm layer
%&$&%&$&%&$&%&
$&%&$&%&$&%&$&
&%&$&%&$&%&$&%
&$&%&%&$&$&%&$ < substrate



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OfflineAtomHeartMother99
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Re: What is wrong with these jars? - Now with pics [Re: Slimz]
    #11233745 - 10/12/09 05:00 PM (8 years, 11 days ago)

Thanks for the input. I do have a layer of dry verm at the top. It just kinda shifted around. My material did some funny stuff during the PC'ing.

I just keep reading the tech's and making jar's, but I am getting the same results. I am going to try a different type of verm tonight. It is a bit finer and darker. This should also make it easier to see myce growth. Once again, thanks for the feedback.

Keep it coming! lol I love towlee (sp?)

AHM99


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Invisibledaytripper05
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Re: What is wrong with these jars? - Now with pics [Re: AtomHeartMother99]
    #11233862 - 10/12/09 05:20 PM (8 years, 11 days ago)

the finer vermiculite can get packed very easily and slow growth. I would use a medium to a finer-medium grade vermiculite. There will be more air pockets and less surface area that would aid in faster colonization. This has been my experience anyways. You can still use the fine stuff at the top for the dry layer.


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Invisibleartizen
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Re: What is wrong with these jars? - Now with pics [Re: daytripper05]
    #11234026 - 10/12/09 05:46 PM (8 years, 11 days ago)

they look fine to me, barring that little black spot. the growth looks good for 5 days of MS. if you have a dry verm layer, loose the tape. why haven't you noc'd the other jars?


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InvisibleUFOz8MyGoat
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Re: What is wrong with these jars? - Now with pics [Re: artizen]
    #11234038 - 10/12/09 05:48 PM (8 years, 11 days ago)

yea watch out for the brown spots they can show up 5-7 days or later and get worse as your jars just start kickin. Lost 10 jars to that stuff


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Invisiblemycoelf
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Re: What is wrong with these jars? - Now with pics [Re: UFOz8MyGoat]
    #11234210 - 10/12/09 06:24 PM (8 years, 11 days ago)

Hi,


I would agree that your substrate looks too dense. I could not see any whole grains, I assume that you used flour. Mycelium LOVES diverse challenging substrate. Air space is important. I used flour for my first few times (brown rice) and the went to (cracking) the whole rice in a food processor. Finally I realized that mycellium has special ability to invade the shell of cooked grain and went to a whole format. The advantage of this is that you are less likely to contaminate a whole grain than flour or cracked as the nutrient base is tucked neatly inside the shell and away from where contam's can get to it.

Proportion of height to width is also crucial. A deep jar is subject to anaerobic contams (bacteria) and takes much time to capture.

I am wondering what method you used to innoc? spores, maybe ? if so look into doing a fragmented inoculation whereby a healthy culture is placed in a blender device and the resulting slurry is then inoculated into PF type jars. Agar is easy enough with the addition of Peroxide, and you don't get the lag time with spores that have to germinate and then mate with compatible haploid mycelia, becoming dicaryotic. The meantime of which any contams present have already had a field day with your substrate. You also gain the advantage of having one individual colonizing the substrate and not competing with other individuals for territory.

I used 1/2 pint wide mouth jars and the following recipe for substrate.

.71 g Calcium carbonate
2.84 g Calcium sulfate
13.49 g Medium vermiculite
9.55 g Quinowa or white millet (unshelled)
38.55 g Brown rice (whole)
49.11 Ml H20

This makes approximately 107g of sub for each jar.

I packed the fill down with a special tool being a flat disk made to the diameter of the jar where the bottom of the thread is. You could also use a spoon to pack the sub in. Giving a quick wipe with an alcohol laden paper towel removes unwanted sub from the jar rim (otherwise inviting contam) and then placed 1/4 cup (volume) of dry vermic on top to prevent any contam landing on top while I was innoculateing. (this was also considered during the formulation for water in my recipe)

Water content is extremely important in small containers. Mycelium can swim, but they are not fish. In small containers it is important to not have too much moisture as this also encourages anaerobic activity in the deep cavities. You want to aim for no more than 50% by mass.

One last thought, it looked like the grain was over cooked on bottom and browned on top. This might indicate too much pressure/heat or improper loading of PC. I made a rack that held 18 1/2 pint widemouth jars in my X25. Each jar had a headspace of 1/2" in the pc and none touched except at the very margins.

I found 15 psi for 1 hour to be sufficient for sterilization time for this setup.


Good luck and keep trying I failed many times before getting my first colonization, because I did not have such a wonderful forum as this to learn by. 


Mycoelf


--------------------
Mycoelf

Sterility is a process that can be likened unto infinity, which is a long walk, the closer to the end you start before beginning, the more achievable  the goal of infinity becomes.  Remember, cleanliness in next to goddessness

:aliendance::aliendance::wicca::aliendance::aliendance::pipesmoke:


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Invisiblemycoelf
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Registered: 06/26/09
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Re: What is wrong with these jars? - Now with pics [Re: UFOz8MyGoat]
    #11234284 - 10/12/09 06:41 PM (8 years, 11 days ago)

Hi,


I would agree that your substrate looks too dense. I could not see any whole grains, I assume that you used flour. Mycelium LOVES diverse challenging substrate. Air space is important. I used flour for my first few times (brown rice) and the went to (cracking) the whole rice in a food processor. Finally I realized that mycellium has special ability to invade the shell of cooked grain and went to a whole format. The advantage of this is that you are less likely to contaminate a whole grain than flour or cracked as the nutrient base is tucked neatly inside the shell and away from where contam's can get to it.

Proportion of height to width is also crucial. A deep jar is subject to anaerobic contams (bacteria) and takes much time to capture.

I am wondering what method you used to innoc? spores, maybe ? if so look into doing a fragmented inoculation whereby a healthy culture is placed in a blender device and the resulting slurry is then inoculated into PF type jars. Agar is easy enough with the addition of Peroxide, and you don't get the lag time with spores that have to germinate and then mate with compatible haploid mycelia, becoming dicaryotic. The meantime of which any contams present have already had a field day with your substrate. You also gain the advantage of having one individual colonizing the substrate and not competing with other individuals for territory.

I used 1/2 pint wide mouth jars and the following recipe for substrate.

.71 g Calcium carbonate
2.84 g Calcium sulfate
13.49 g Medium vermiculite
9.55 g Quinowa or white millet (unshelled)
38.55 g Brown rice (whole)
49.11 Ml H20

This makes approximately 107g of sub for each jar.

I packed the fill down with a special tool being a flat disk made to the diameter of the jar where the bottom of the thread is. You could also use a spoon to pack the sub in. Giving a quick wipe with an alcohol laden paper towel removes unwanted sub from the jar rim (otherwise inviting contam) and then placed 1/4 cup (volume) of dry vermic on top to prevent any contam landing on top while I was innoculateing. (this was also considered during the formulation for water in my recipe)

Water content is extremely important in small containers. Mycelium can swim, but they are not fish. In small containers it is important to not have too much moisture as this also encourages anaerobic activity in the deep cavities. You want to aim for no more than 50% by mass.

One last thought, it looked like the grain was over cooked on bottom and browned on top. This might indicate too much pressure/heat or improper loading of PC. I made a rack that held 18 1/2 pint widemouth jars in my X25. Each jar had a headspace of 1/2" in the pc and none touched except at the very margins.

I found 15 psi for 1 hour to be sufficient for sterilization time for this setup.


Good luck and keep trying I failed many times before getting my first colonization, because I did not have such a wonderful forum as this to learn by. 


Mycoelf


--------------------
Mycoelf

Sterility is a process that can be likened unto infinity, which is a long walk, the closer to the end you start before beginning, the more achievable  the goal of infinity becomes.  Remember, cleanliness in next to goddessness

:aliendance::aliendance::wicca::aliendance::aliendance::pipesmoke:


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OfflineAtomHeartMother99
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Registered: 09/28/09
Posts: 88
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Re: What is wrong with these jars? - Now with pics [Re: mycoelf]
    #11236372 - 10/12/09 11:52 PM (8 years, 11 days ago)

This is what is still so confusing to me. I am using medium grade verm and before I put my jars in the pressure cooker they look great. They look like what all the guides indicate they look like. I just cant figure out what what is causing them to blow up in the PC. Is the BRF expanding? Is it moisture getting into the jars? How come some come out decent? I will try to post a pic of a pre sterilized jar later. I am going to keep playing around and see what I get. Thanks for the input again. I am going to read over all this again.

Thanks,

AHM99


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Amazon Shop: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Brown Rice Flour, Calcium Carbonate, Gypsum, Pressure Cooker, Vermiculite

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