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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offline3eyedgod
trippinkid

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 684
Loc: Far away and very near
Last seen: 20 years, 10 months
Re: Dominance.?. [Re: ]
    #1126812 - 12/09/02 09:29 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

This is simply the nature of man, there will always be someone who takes the role of leader among the weaker people.

While there will always be someone to take the role of leader, I find it rather pretensious of you to consider all the non-leaders weak people. I think everyone would fill the role they were best suited too. Look at it this way - In the native american society were the shamans, the hunters, the warriors, the scouts, the planters, etc... considered "weaker" than the leader? I for one think not.


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself

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Offline3eyedgod
trippinkid

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 684
Loc: Far away and very near
Last seen: 20 years, 10 months
Re: Dominance.?. [Re: David_Scape]
    #1126942 - 12/09/02 10:08 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I wonder how the shroomery community would fair if we we're all put into such a situation together.  I'd be tempted to say we could form a peaceful society.  But then again some of the Off Topic denizens are creepy.

No offense intended to any of you Off Topican peoples :grin: 


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself

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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: Dominance.?. [Re: 3eyedgod]
    #1127292 - 12/09/02 11:46 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

But then again some of the Off Topic denizens are creepy.

LOL! So true.....so true.  :laugh: :tongue: :wink:


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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 19 years, 3 months
Re: Dominance.?. [Re: upupup]
    #1127342 - 12/10/02 12:07 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Most of the folks were couples who had met under different circumstances than living aboriginal style and when the circumstances changed to a more simple environment peoples ideals about what was important in a mate changed radically. Every single couple broke up and switched mates.

Yzow! That's crazy, and really interesting! I suppose that's what causes break-ups in the first place. Situations change and people look for different mates. Throughout the hormone roller coaster that is teenagery people switch mates all the time, and I guess it's because the way people see the world is flipping upside down every few hours. Makes me wonder if my girlfriend and I would stay together living in a tribal situation. Have you ever written a summary of your time out in the boonies? I'd be interested to read it if you have.

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Offlineupupup
guardian

Registered: 08/25/01
Posts: 889
Loc: George "I love Hitler" Bu...
Last seen: 20 years, 3 months
Re: Dominance.?. [Re: Dogomush]
    #1127383 - 12/10/02 12:19 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I have not written about it though I have thought about it many times but just can't think of how it would go. Think about it for just a second, folks running around the deep mountains of montana dressed in deer skins (if we wore clothes at all which a breech cloth is barely). I just don't understand how to put it into perspective that people would relate to beside you freaks... :grin:

anyway when you tell someone you were charged by a deer (with horns) and killed it with your knife they tend not to belive you anyway.... :confused:


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Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.

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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 5 months, 16 days
Re: Dominance.?. [Re: ]
    #1128013 - 12/10/02 06:03 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Pray tell! what is the true nature of man?


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Always Smi2le

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InvisibleIn(di)go
People of the sun.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/29/00
Posts: 8,157
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Re: Dominance.?. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1128017 - 12/10/02 06:06 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

in my eyes, its love


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 5 months, 16 days
Re: Dominance.?. [Re: In(di)go]
    #1128093 - 12/10/02 07:46 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Im with you on that one.


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Always Smi2le

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Anonymous

Re: Dominance.?. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1128217 - 12/10/02 08:54 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I mean no disrespect but I think the nature of man is selfish.

Can you name one thing that a man does without getting some kind of payment in return? All actions are based on a good that a person receives for the performance of good actions. Altruism does not exist. Just my opinion.

Cheers,

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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 5 months, 16 days
Re: Dominance.?. [Re: ]
    #1128227 - 12/10/02 09:03 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Im gonna need some time to consider that! I think you may be right but Im not sure it is neccesarily a negative thing...


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Always Smi2le

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Dominance.?. [Re: ]
    #1128439 - 12/10/02 10:34 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

In reply to:

I mean no disrespect but I think the nature of man is selfish.

Can you name one thing that a man does without getting some kind of payment in return? All actions are based on a good that a person receives for the performance of good actions. Altruism does not exist.



I agree, this is a better explanation than your earlier assertions that man is evil (that was you who stated that wasn't it?).


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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InvisibleIn(di)go
People of the sun.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/29/00
Posts: 8,157
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Re: Dominance.?. [Re: ]
    #1128502 - 12/10/02 10:53 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

altruism... it does not exist... any more... society poisons us day by day, we are taught to be this way...


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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 19 years, 3 months
Re: Dominance.?. [Re: ]
    #1128571 - 12/10/02 11:13 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I mean no disrespect but I think the nature of man is selfish.
agreed. I mean, say I run out into the street and push you out of the way of a truck and get hit and die myself. If someone said "what a noble man" then I'd be laughing in my grave cause that's exactly what I did it for. Just to show people how I was so much more loving and so much more selfless than everyone else.

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Anonymous

Re: Dominance.?. [Re: Evolving]
    #1128661 - 12/10/02 11:32 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Yes I did state in the past that man was evil. But that point takes a bit of elaboration. At the core man is selfish. But, as someone said, this is not necessarily evil. I think that most of the time the part of man that wills his own good is perverted into actions that culminate into evil. There is nonthing wrong with caring for one's own benefit but when one does so at the exclusion of others it is very bad. Selfishness is a necessary condition for evil but it is not a sufficient condition for evil. Evil requires more than just selfishness. If that is clear.

Cheers,

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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Dominance.?. [Re: ]
    #1128688 - 12/10/02 11:38 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I agree that man's nature is "selfish", but let's not equate that with such a negative view of ourselves. We have to be selfish, it is a basic part of living that you must look after yourself before anyone else. Though I think there's a difference between helping ONLY yourself, and helping others (which helps yourself in the process)...


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Anonymous

Re: Dominance.?. [Re: Adamist]
    #1128734 - 12/10/02 11:49 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Exactly! Well put.

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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: Dominance.?. [Re: Adamist]
    #1128813 - 12/10/02 12:13 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I definitely agree, Adamist! Selfishness is in man's nature, but there are different levels of selfishness. I think people whose egos are more dominated by the id are more of the "selfish bastard" type, whereas people whose egos are more dominated by the superego are selfish in their own small ways, but more of the altruist type. There is no denying that we all want the best lives for ourselves, and so Plato was very correct in saying that selfishness is in man's nature. It's only natural!


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Namaste.

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Anonymous

Re: Dominance.?. [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1128821 - 12/10/02 12:15 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

If you ever get past Atlas Shrugged you might want to read Ayn Rand's non-fiction work called The Virtue of Selfishness.

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OfflineDavid_Scape
Anti Genius
Male

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 878
Loc: U.S. of muthafuckin A.
Last seen: 15 years, 21 days
Re: Dominance.?. [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1129074 - 12/10/02 01:35 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

It's okay steve. There is nothing wrong with being polite and formal! (However, there is somthing wrong with me :blush:.) I was half-joking. Nice to meet you too :grin: :grin:. Nice to meet everybody! I like your avatar too. Who is that? Ganesh(sp?)? I have a friend who is hindi so... i am actually intrested.


As for selfishness in the nature of man. I certainly and wholeheartedly AGREE.

Egotism, I think is also the same bucket of worms.  It's a different more 'social' kind of selfishness and is basically part of the same 'equilibrium'.

We are all egotists. And in a very real way we are more intrested in our selves than in anything else. We are all ego hungry. And it is only when this hunger is at least partially satsiied the we can forget ourselves and give our attention to someone else. When we can approve of ourselves then we can approve of others much more naturally.

You can get what you want and help others at the same time (sorta like what adamist pointed out.). Selfishness is very intresting in my opinion. It is one of my personal tools to measure other people. 



 


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram

Edited by David_Scape (12/10/02 09:03 PM)

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OfflineDavid_Scape
Anti Genius
Male

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 878
Loc: U.S. of muthafuckin A.
Last seen: 15 years, 21 days
Re: Dominance.?. [Re: David_Scape]
    #1129246 - 12/10/02 02:26 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Here's somthing that isnt entirely consistent with this threads progress. But I think it is relevant and crazy. Actually, im having trouble believing it...

The Stanford Prison Experiment
"...web site, which features an extensive slide show and information about this classic psychology experiment. What happens when you put good people in an evil place? Does humanity win over evil, or does evil triumph? These are some of the questions we posed in this dramatic simulation of prison life conducted in the summer of 1971 at Stanford University.
How we went about testing these questions and what we found may astound you. Our planned two-week investigation into the psychology of prison life had to be ended prematurely after only six days because of what the situation was doing to the college students who participated. In only a few days, our guards became sadistic and our prisoners became depressed and showed signs of extreme stress. Please join me on a slide tour of describing this experiment and uncovering what it tells us about the nature of Human Nature. "


--Philip G. Zimbardo





--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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