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Offlinekablamo
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Registered: 05/28/08
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Loc: Japan
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Founding an independent state.
    #11230770 - 10/12/09 02:18 AM (8 years, 10 days ago)

OK, I know it's completely a pipe dream, and I don't know if it's been discussed here before or not, but how exactly would one go about non-violently founding their own independent country?
Let's say you think you know how things should go better than anyone else in power in any of the existing world countries and you have enough people who agree with you and would all be willing to relocate and work together to achieve your goals of independence.
I'm sure you know what I'm getting at.  Spiritual freedom through use of entheogenic chemicals without the threat of imprisonment, among a million other things.
This is purely hypothetical.  I just want to hear your opinions.

The place where this issue terminates in my mind is that in order to be independent, you must have a military capable of defending your claim, or you must make a claim so remote and desolate that no one would have any reason to invade.  Countries love claiming desolate rocks in the middle of nowhere for the control of the seaways and fishing grounds surrounding, for one thing.

Any thoughts?


Edited by kablamo (10/12/09 02:48 AM)


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Invisibledjmako7
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Re: Founding an independent state. [Re: kablamo]
    #11231320 - 10/12/09 05:16 AM (8 years, 10 days ago)

No way it would happen, a war would start right away


the best way to do it is to split a country in half to make another. This also means war.




Or, you could purchase an island near the virgin islands for around 28 million and have it declared a country. I think there are requirements though. Maybe a population of 10 and some sort of cash crop? You for sure need a military.


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Offlinepothead_bob
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Registered: 04/12/08
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Re: Founding an independent state. [Re: djmako7]
    #11232093 - 10/12/09 11:53 AM (8 years, 10 days ago)

Yeah, it could never happen.  It's amazing how impossible it is for the average person to simply live and let live.  Everybody is uber-worried about what everyone else is doing with there own personal lives.


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No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.


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Offlinekablamo
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Registered: 05/28/08
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Re: Founding an independent state. [Re: pothead_bob]
    #11234172 - 10/12/09 06:16 PM (8 years, 10 days ago)

Or you have to do it without anyone else knowing, which is the easiest way I suppose.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Founding an independent state. [Re: kablamo]
    #11234692 - 10/12/09 07:52 PM (8 years, 10 days ago)

Then it wouldn't be recognized by anyone and wouldn't be valid.


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OfflineSmackshadow
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Registered: 09/27/05
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Re: Founding an independent state. [Re: learningtofly]
    #11236816 - 10/13/09 01:00 AM (8 years, 9 days ago)

Two words "Cape Verde"  Half a million people on desolate desert rocks in the middle of the Atlantic.  Average wage per day is $1.25. 

Here is how you do it.  Start a simple manufacturing company.  Locate the head quarters and primary manufacturing facility on the Cape.  Pay the workers $12.50 a day.  Spend profits on water desalination, and electricity generation.  Import more businesses there.  Start paying labor more and more, until they get a reasonable wage in comparison to the rest of the 1st world. 

Run for president.

The great thing is they have so few people that really not even a lot of jobs could turn the country around.

Only down side is that it is an island nation with no real natural resources.  But Shipping on a large scales isn't really all that expensive, and with the cheap labor to start off with I think profits are likely.

Also they are in massive debt right now.  That always seems to predicate an uprising of some sort.


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The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
     
~H. L. Mencken~


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OfflineNortonStPhallus
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Re: Founding an independent state. [Re: Smackshadow]
    #11239751 - 10/13/09 04:10 PM (8 years, 9 days ago)

If you had the survival skills you could cast out into the Amazon or a similar expansive wilderness.


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:eatingout:


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Invisiblemozhual
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Re: Founding an independent state. [Re: Smackshadow]
    #11240348 - 10/13/09 05:37 PM (8 years, 9 days ago)

12.50$ a day is already almost 4$ more then minimum wage in the US... lol...


--------------------
"Nature is like a sculptor constantly improving upon her work, but to do so she chisels away at living flesh." H.K. Bloom

"Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is not omnipotent...
Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent...
Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god." Epicurus c. 300 BCE

"When I brought up the fact that 'No drug is good or bad, they're all just A drug, what someone does with them determines the postive or negative outcome. Look at medicine, those are drugs' Reponse was that 'well medicine solves problems' well so does LSD." -Learningtofly


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Offlinekablamo
the Brave


Registered: 05/28/08
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Re: Founding an independent state. [Re: NortonStPhallus]
    #11240457 - 10/13/09 06:03 PM (8 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

NortonStPhallus said:
If you had the survival skills you could cast out into the Amazon or a similar expansive wilderness.



Yeah, this has sounded good to me for a while now, but I've got no skillz.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Founding an independent state. [Re: kablamo]
    #11240902 - 10/13/09 07:23 PM (8 years, 9 days ago)

The easiest way is to buy Sealand.  This article was the first I found and seems to imply that it isn't recognized, but I believe it is, at least by a few nations.

The next best way would be to find a cash strapped 3rd world country that would be willing to sell you some land and recognize your independence.  If you couldn't find one to do that, you may still be able to convince one to allow you to build an artificial island off their coast similar to what Dubai has done(But out of their territorial waters).  Thought that would still probably not be enough.  You'll have to get other countries (I'd still shoot for those cash strapped ones) to recognize you as well.


It may be technically possible, but it would be an exceedingly long, difficult and expensive prospect.  Getting the industrialized nations to recognize your claim as a country will probably not happen, so travel will limited.  Basically, without a lot of international connections and billions (upon billions) of dollars, you aren't doing this.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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Invisiblelivelovelaugho9
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Re: Founding an independent state. [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #11251825 - 10/15/09 11:25 AM (8 years, 7 days ago)

In Denmark there is a "country" that goes by Christiania, and has open drug trade, but the government can't say anything because the are independent. It's kind of like a hippie town.


--------------------
People say that what we're all seeking is a meaning for life. I don't
think that's what we're really seeking. I think what we're seeking is an
experience of being alive, so that our life experiences on the purely
physical plane will have resonances within our own innermost being and
reality, so we can actually feel the rapture of being alive.:flowerchild:


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Founding an independent state. [Re: kablamo]
    #11252095 - 10/15/09 12:30 PM (8 years, 7 days ago)

google "seasteading," also "the free-state project"


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Founding an independent state. [Re: livelovelaugho9]
    #11252759 - 10/15/09 02:20 PM (8 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

livelovelaugho9 said:
In Denmark there is a "country" that goes by Christiania, and has open drug trade, but the government can't say anything because the are independent. It's kind of like a hippie town.





you may want to read up on it, the open drug trade ended in 2004 and
they're far from being autonomous, in fact the way things are looking
they're beginning to conform more to the laws within the state/city


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Invisiblelivelovelaugho9
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Re: Founding an independent state. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11252775 - 10/15/09 02:22 PM (8 years, 7 days ago)

Oops my bad  :blush:


--------------------
People say that what we're all seeking is a meaning for life. I don't
think that's what we're really seeking. I think what we're seeking is an
experience of being alive, so that our life experiences on the purely
physical plane will have resonances within our own innermost being and
reality, so we can actually feel the rapture of being alive.:flowerchild:


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OfflineNunbuh_Chrubble
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Re: Founding an independent state. [Re: Yrat]
    #11252788 - 10/15/09 02:24 PM (8 years, 7 days ago)

First you have to have a bunch of people declare their independence. Check out the other thread I started in this forum to put in your $0.02


--------------------


"This day is a lover..."

~Rumi


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Founding an independent state. [Re: livelovelaugho9]
    #11252797 - 10/15/09 02:25 PM (8 years, 7 days ago)

it's hard to keep up on all the news all over the world, I only learned it
because I read it after you posted, the trade hasnt ended, most of the
dealers have moved out of that area and into the rest of copenhagen, it's
no longer out in the open


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