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InvisibleLipa Kreepa
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shelf-life for uninnoculated jars?
    #11229774 - 10/11/09 11:43 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

hey people,

here's my position... i had about 30 jars i prepared and sterilized that wound up shelfed. the spores (i was supposed to use) were from a batch of cakes that were sabotaged by a very crappy bacterial infection. i prepared the cakes thinking that there would only be a good week or 2 wait before i could get em going.... unfortunately some of these jars have been sitting around for close to a month now.

i checked all the jars out and none have any visible contaminants although when i pulled off the foil today (to bang a few up with a dart i found) i noticed a stale kinda smell. nothing sour but definately not the pleasant aroma of wet verm and rice. it wasn't a very overpowering scent either. i really had to put the jars close to my nose to notice it. this circumstance brings me to my next questions:

if bacteria is present in the jar before inoculation.... will its prescence halt or grow along side with the mycelium? will it go unnoticed until its birth or will it inhit the mycelial growth in the first place? could the mycelium "eat up" the potential bacteria and strip it of its evil ways?

even though my jars were sterilized good, if given enough time uninnoculated could a bacterial infection come about? the foil had never been removed and they have been kept in a spot that is completely dark.

any advice is greatly appreciated.


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: shelf-life for uninnoculated jars? [Re: Lipa Kreepa]
    #11229792 - 10/11/09 11:45 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

They are still good.

Biggest problem to worry about would be drying.


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: shelf-life for uninnoculated jars? [Re: anonjon]
    #11229835 - 10/11/09 11:52 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

depends on how they awere sterilised. If it was pressure cooked they may still be OK. if it was steam sterilised i wouldnt take any cahnces.

Stll even at 15 psi not everything is going to be killed. Enogh will be killed that yoiu have time for the mycelium to get a hold.

Personaly i would make up fresh jars.


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InvisibleSlimz
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Re: shelf-life for uninnoculated jars? [Re: veda_sticks]
    #11230065 - 10/12/09 12:31 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

if the grains are plump (hydrated) and they are not contamed, then im gonna say they are good to go..


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Offlineshasha
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Re: shelf-life for uninnoculated jars? [Re: Lipa Kreepa]
    #11230729 - 10/12/09 02:13 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

safest route is probably to PC a new batch

if you're trying to conserve spores and still want to use the old jars, make some LC and knock them up with some of that (what's another week after they've been sitting for a month?)


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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: shelf-life for uninnoculated jars? [Re: shasha]
    #11230777 - 10/12/09 02:20 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

pc'ing only gives you about a 2 week period before other contaminants get a hold of the substrate i would start over just to be on the safe side and not waste any solution on a "risk" you know?


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: shelf-life for uninnoculated jars? [Re: veda_sticks]
    #11231991 - 10/12/09 11:23 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

veda_sticks said:

Stll even at 15 psi not everything is going to be killed. Enogh will be killed that yoiu have time for the mycelium to get a hold.






If that were true pc'ing wouldn't work for preserving food. Shelve life of pressue cooked vegetables is years, no?


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Invisiblewygram
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Re: shelf-life for uninnoculated jars? [Re: anonjon]
    #11232057 - 10/12/09 11:43 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

anonjon said:
Quote:

veda_sticks said:

Stll even at 15 psi not everything is going to be killed. Enogh will be killed that yoiu have time for the mycelium to get a hold.






If that were true pc'ing wouldn't work for preserving food. Shelve life of pressue cooked vegetables is years, no?



To kill everything and make jars completely sterile it would take something close to 24 hrs at 15 PSI, which would destroy the substrate. Most people talk about a two week sterile window in which mushrooms can take over the substrate before anything that may have survived can grow.

Home canning is by no means flawless, while some jars can last years, others spoil and can produce deadly toxins. Honestly, food processing is not comparable to preparing sterile grains. It's a whole different game, because of the properties of the food being canned. Like this difference... "The time needed to safely process low-acid foods in a boiling-water canner ranges from 7 to 11 hours; the time needed to process acid foods in boiling water varies from 5 to 85 minutes."


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: shelf-life for uninnoculated jars? [Re: wygram]
    #11232089 - 10/12/09 11:53 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wygram said: "The time needed to safely process low-acid foods in a boiling-water canner ranges from 7 to 11 hours; the time needed to process acid foods in boiling water varies from 5 to 85 minutes."





Hogwash.

Canning Green Beans in the Pressure Cooker

Fill your pressure cooker with 3-4 inches of water always follow the manufacturer instructions. It saves time if you have already warmed up the water in the pressure cooker. Carefully place the jars into the pressure cooker. Once the pressure cooker has reached the proper pressure (usually 11 pounds) cook the green beans for 25 minutes adjusting temperature to keep the pressure at the proper pounds.

Carefully take the hot jars out of the pressure cooker and place them on a cooling rack. Let them thoroughly cool, undisturbed.

Shelf life: 3-5 years.


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OfflineNuzzle
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Re: shelf-life for uninnoculated jars? [Re: anonjon]
    #11232158 - 10/12/09 12:09 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

^^^^ Wtf??? Yea I'm sure the "Green Beans" also are sealed shut!
These jars have air exhchange holes...Which would cause the substrate to DRY out over time. No way in hell will any jar last 3-5 years!


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: shelf-life for uninnoculated jars? [Re: Nuzzle]
    #11232180 - 10/12/09 12:15 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Nuzzle said:
^^^^ Wtf??? Yea I'm sure the "Green Beans" also are sealed shut!
These jars have air exhchange holes...Which would cause the substrate to DRY out over time. No way in hell will any jar last 3-5 years!




Did I say they would?  :fishsmack:


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Invisiblemyceleus_rex
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Re: shelf-life for uninnoculated jars? [Re: anonjon]
    #11232234 - 10/12/09 12:27 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

As long as there is enough moisture, couldn't he re-PC the jars? A little water could even be added first.  That's alot of spawn to toss.


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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: shelf-life for uninnoculated jars? [Re: myceleus_rex]
    #11237057 - 10/13/09 02:03 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

a loss? naww a loss would be spore solution and a half colonized jar to throw away, trust me i have been down this path and i would just start a new.


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OfflineThyrax
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Re: shelf-life for uninnoculated jars? [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #11237835 - 10/13/09 07:26 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

if they didnt dry out I would re-pc them and use it. I agree that it is a lot of substrate to toss. I prefer loosing 30cc of spore solution than 30 jar of substrate lol.


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Offlinetall dwarf
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Re: shelf-life for uninnoculated jars? [Re: Thyrax]
    #11237848 - 10/13/09 07:31 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

One month is fine, no need to re-PC.  The jars should be okay.  Their dryness may even speed up colonization.


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Offlinefungusfeller
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Re: shelf-life for uninnoculated jars? [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #11237851 - 10/13/09 07:35 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

i find myself in the same boat, i have wbs jars sitting for two weeks now while waiting fot test jars to fully collonise. i think i'll just pc them again, at least one batch anyway to see what happens:shrug:


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Offlinetall dwarf
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Re: shelf-life for uninnoculated jars? [Re: fungusfeller]
    #11237867 - 10/13/09 07:43 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fungusfeller said: i have wbs jars sitting for two weeks now while waiting fot test jars to fully collonise.




wbs is a different story it should be used quickly.  But 2 weeks should still be okay.


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: shelf-life for uninnoculated jars? [Re: tall dwarf]
    #11237969 - 10/13/09 08:32 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

it does depend on the spawn being used. pf cakes i would think could keep much longer since they dont harbour the nasty bacterial endospores that grains do.

If it were popcorn i wouldnt trust that to keep very long since it seems to contain much more than other grains do.

Ive always wondered why people sterilise susbtrate when they dont have any inoculant ready. Ive only ever sterilised when i would be ready to inoculate once its cooled, usually 12 hours after sterilisation.

Too much hurry, wait till your spores arrive.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: shelf-life for uninnoculated jars? [Re: veda_sticks]
    #11237987 - 10/13/09 08:39 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I still think you're wrong. If it's sterile 1 hour after pc'ing, it will still be sterile 2 weeks....a month later.

If it's not, you're doing something wrong.


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Offlinefungusfeller
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Re: shelf-life for uninnoculated jars? [Re: veda_sticks]
    #11238145 - 10/13/09 10:00 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

i agree, i was ready to inoculate then changed my mind, and decided to shoot some test jars first with the king oyster LC i got from a fellow shroomerite, and i'm glad i did,the jars contaminated. so i made a syringe from a print i made months ago, now i'm waiting for those jars so i can make a mycelium syringe.

PS. i can't find agar around here:shrug:


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