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InvisibleIcelander
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Neurosis
    #11216986 - 10/09/09 08:15 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

Ya know, I think that if humanity was psychologically healthy the idea of enlightenment or god would be totally unimportant to humans.

Basically humanity is highly neurotic, which the buddha among others aptly pointed out.

Unfortunately we aren't psychologically healthy as a species and so we come up with all kinds of remedies from pop psychology to religion and a million other things to cure what most likely isn't going to be cured for the majority of humanity.

Of course individually we can make some small headway into mental health but it's difficult and a patchwork deal.

I think I read many more posts here on philosophy and spirituality (religion mostly) than psychology. And I think I know why. Working on mental health is very difficult work and often very painful. We would much rather have a god save us or the guru save us and fix us up then really face the mess we often are within. It can look and feel pretty ugly sometimes. Enlightenment is so clean. Just quit thinking. Religion is so clean, just repent and accept. But IMO that shit only deludes and placates and one is still stuck with who and what they are and feel. Even if we can bury it to some extent.

Unfortunately I have no fancy solution.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinethemostpurple
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Re: Neurosis [Re: Icelander]
    #11217018 - 10/09/09 08:25 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

See, that is an interesting viewpoint that I have come to the conclusion of before, but its more of a projecting your own experiences untoward the rest of society that brings on that rationale. You see I don't think that anyone is truly bound to themselves and their emotions, that's why its such a familiar and easily accomplished, but terrifying experience when you go through ego-loss, which most people say is the key to "enlightenment," among other things. Forgetting who you are what you are doing sounds unhelpful, but it is actually the greatest relief you can give yourself imo...you feel just SO liberated that it terrifies you really :lol:


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-_-_-_-


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Neurosis [Re: themostpurple]
    #11217054 - 10/09/09 08:34 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

but its more of a projecting your own experiences untoward the rest of society that brings on that rationale

Isn't that what you're doing with your opinions here. Isn't this what we all do? Who elses experiences am I going to use for my rationale?

I've had the so called ego loss experience more than once and it didn't dramatically change my day to day over time. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblemozhual
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Registered: 09/26/09
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Re: Neurosis [Re: themostpurple]
    #11217151 - 10/09/09 08:56 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

You some of you guys have fun with your ego-loss, some with religion, some with S&M(aka sin and repent) complexes, some with imaginary friends, etc...  basically every superorganism to pseudocult with a heavily past negative and present hedonistic oriented time perspective...  The rest of us will uphold the oldest of traditions mandated to us by nature herself 13.7 billion years ago: Ride the waves of change or die.


--------------------
"Nature is like a sculptor constantly improving upon her work, but to do so she chisels away at living flesh." H.K. Bloom

"Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is not omnipotent...
Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent...
Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god." Epicurus c. 300 BCE

"When I brought up the fact that 'No drug is good or bad, they're all just A drug, what someone does with them determines the postive or negative outcome. Look at medicine, those are drugs' Reponse was that 'well medicine solves problems' well so does LSD." -Learningtofly


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Neurosis [Re: Icelander]
    #11217629 - 10/09/09 10:46 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Unfortunately I have no fancy solution.




I was with ya until this part. Please refund my $500 initiation fee.

Sincerely,

OC


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OfflineDiaboleros
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Re: Neurosis [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11217721 - 10/09/09 11:06 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

Cool topic. Wilhelm Reich the founder of modern psychology believed the same, he called it the emotional plague. http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=11529.0


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Neurosis [Re: Diaboleros]
    #11217746 - 10/09/09 11:12 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

There is no magic bullet, psychology included.


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineDiaboleros
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Re: Neurosis [Re: Kickle]
    #11217809 - 10/09/09 11:26 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

There is a magic bullet, remember your life and all neurosis dissapears as they are nothing but blocked memories. People treat you like this and like that, which makes you believe this and that, when you go back to the places in life where you changed your belief system, you can retrace the cause of the neurosis.


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Neurosis [Re: Icelander]
    #11217816 - 10/09/09 11:27 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Ya know, I think that if humanity was psychologically healthy the idea of enlightenment or god would be totally unimportant to humans.





Are you comparing psychologically healthy humanity to a psychologically healthy human to determine what is/isn't psychologically healthy humanity - how is 'psychologically healthy' humanity defined here?

Maybe the humanity that you see is exactly what a psychologically healthy humanity is like?

Quote:

Icelander said:
Basically humanity is highly neurotic, which the buddha among others aptly pointed out.





How is it basic? Highly neurotic compared to which other humanity/individual/species/thing? How do you know buddha wasn't pointing at something else or whether buddha made an error in judgment?

Quote:

Icelander said:
Unfortunately we aren't psychologically healthy as a species and so we come up with all kinds of remedies from pop psychology to religion and a million other things to cure what most likely isn't going to be cured for the majority of humanity.





Speak for yourself. Interesting story of how you have interpreted humanity's invention and use of pop psychology and religion. I see pop psychology, religion, science or anything else like this as being a natural part of humanity's apparent expression of 'meaning making'. Even this thread is an expression of meaning making. It doesn't need to have a grand purpose such as being a cure to humanity's ills. As far as I can tell, making meaning (whether it's "true" or not) has been part of our species expressing itself for as long as we have records to tell (not that I've read all the records, but this is how I've generalised or how I have made meaning of events thus far).

Quote:

Icelander said:
I think I read many more posts here on philosophy and spirituality (religion mostly) than psychology. And I think I know why. Working on mental health is very difficult work and often very painful. We would much rather have a god save us or the guru save us and fix us up then really face the mess we often are within. It can look and feel pretty ugly sometimes. Enlightenment is so clean. Just quit thinking. Religion is so clean, just repent and accept. But IMO that shit only deludes and placates and one is still stuck with who and what they are and feel. Even if we can bury it to some extent.





Wrong. You have read more posts about philosophy and spirituality than psychology because philosophy and spirituality are the main focuses of this forum. Psychology doesn't get discussed here as much IMO because it gets a bit boring and technical when getting into the details of it, it's rarely as entertaining as whimsical discussions of enlightenment, gods and such..


--------------------


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Invisiblemozhual
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Registered: 09/26/09
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Re: Neurosis [Re: Diaboleros]
    #11217847 - 10/09/09 11:33 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Kurt lewin (1890-1947) is universally known as the founder of modern psychology.


-Google


--------------------
"Nature is like a sculptor constantly improving upon her work, but to do so she chisels away at living flesh." H.K. Bloom

"Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is not omnipotent...
Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent...
Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god." Epicurus c. 300 BCE

"When I brought up the fact that 'No drug is good or bad, they're all just A drug, what someone does with them determines the postive or negative outcome. Look at medicine, those are drugs' Reponse was that 'well medicine solves problems' well so does LSD." -Learningtofly


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Invisiblemozhual
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Re: Neurosis [Re: Mufungo]
    #11217894 - 10/09/09 11:39 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Wrong. You have read more posts about philosophy and spirituality than psychology because philosophy and spirituality are the main focuses of this forum. Psychology doesn't get discussed here as much IMO because it gets a bit boring and technical when getting into the details of it, it's rarely as entertaining as whimsical discussions of enlightenment, gods and such..




We recently had a whole thread devoted to wondering why people bring their spirituality crap in here with no logic or reason when there is clearly a forum for their thoughts(P&M). True Philosophy is based on fundamental logic and/or debatable arguments, not unquestionable spirituality and rampant irrationality.

Quote:

This debate-oriented forum is for the discussion of philosophical ideas that can be backed up with some sort of thoughtful logic and reasoning.  Topics may include epistemology, ethics, metaphysics/ontology, the psychology of mind and the sociological study of cultural and individual behavior.  For the purposes of a civil discussion, there are a few simple rules for posting in this forum:



From the forum rules in case you were wondering.


--------------------
"Nature is like a sculptor constantly improving upon her work, but to do so she chisels away at living flesh." H.K. Bloom

"Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is not omnipotent...
Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent...
Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god." Epicurus c. 300 BCE

"When I brought up the fact that 'No drug is good or bad, they're all just A drug, what someone does with them determines the postive or negative outcome. Look at medicine, those are drugs' Reponse was that 'well medicine solves problems' well so does LSD." -Learningtofly


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Neurosis [Re: mozhual]
    #11217930 - 10/09/09 11:44 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

People bring their spirituality stuff in here cause this forum used to be called 'Philosophy and Spirituality'.


--------------------


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OfflineDiaboleros
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Registered: 07/20/08
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Re: Neurosis [Re: mozhual]
    #11217947 - 10/09/09 11:46 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

I think it's funny how people use logic and reason all the time, they are so proud of their logical mind. But when I ask them the laws and rules of their logic they apply, they can never answer me. Can you?


edit: this was a reply to mozhual comment on the lack of logic and reason in people, but he edited his post:p


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Invisiblemozhual
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Re: Neurosis [Re: Mufungo]
    #11217955 - 10/09/09 11:48 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Mufungo said:
People bring their spirituality stuff in here cause this forum used to be called 'Philosophy and Spirituality'.




Used  to    be


--------------------
"Nature is like a sculptor constantly improving upon her work, but to do so she chisels away at living flesh." H.K. Bloom

"Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is not omnipotent...
Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent...
Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god." Epicurus c. 300 BCE

"When I brought up the fact that 'No drug is good or bad, they're all just A drug, what someone does with them determines the postive or negative outcome. Look at medicine, those are drugs' Reponse was that 'well medicine solves problems' well so does LSD." -Learningtofly


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Invisiblemozhual
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Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 283
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Re: Neurosis [Re: Diaboleros]
    #11217967 - 10/09/09 11:49 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6787104

You can't do anything listed there. Everything else that you argue with valid supporting premises that are not base solely on assumptions is "on" limits.


--------------------
"Nature is like a sculptor constantly improving upon her work, but to do so she chisels away at living flesh." H.K. Bloom

"Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is not omnipotent...
Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent...
Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god." Epicurus c. 300 BCE

"When I brought up the fact that 'No drug is good or bad, they're all just A drug, what someone does with them determines the postive or negative outcome. Look at medicine, those are drugs' Reponse was that 'well medicine solves problems' well so does LSD." -Learningtofly


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Invisiblemozhual
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Re: Neurosis [Re: Diaboleros]
    #11217979 - 10/09/09 11:51 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

Nothing was edited, you just didn't read it and went straight to posting.


--------------------
"Nature is like a sculptor constantly improving upon her work, but to do so she chisels away at living flesh." H.K. Bloom

"Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is not omnipotent...
Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent...
Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god." Epicurus c. 300 BCE

"When I brought up the fact that 'No drug is good or bad, they're all just A drug, what someone does with them determines the postive or negative outcome. Look at medicine, those are drugs' Reponse was that 'well medicine solves problems' well so does LSD." -Learningtofly


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OfflineDiaboleros
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Re: Neurosis [Re: mozhual]
    #11217989 - 10/09/09 11:52 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

Those are the rules of logic according to you? Lol. Do you know what logic and reason is?


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Invisiblemozhual
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Re: Neurosis [Re: Diaboleros]
    #11217994 - 10/09/09 11:53 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

Not according to me, according to everyone.

Quote:

Logic, from the Greek λογική (logiké)[1] is the art and science of reasoning.[2] More specifically, it is defined by the Penguin Encyclopedia to be "The formal systematic study of the principles of valid inference and correct reasoning".[3] As a discipline, logic dates back to Aristotle, who established its fundamental place in philosophy. It became part of the classical trivium, a fundamental part of a classical education, and is now an integral part of disciplines such as mathematics, computer science, and linguistics.

Logic concerns the structure of statements and arguments, in formal systems of inference and natural language. Topics include validity, fallacies and paradoxes, reasoning using provability and arguments involving causality and time. Logic is also commonly used today in argumentation theory


-Wikipedia Definition


--------------------
"Nature is like a sculptor constantly improving upon her work, but to do so she chisels away at living flesh." H.K. Bloom

"Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is not omnipotent...
Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent...
Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god." Epicurus c. 300 BCE

"When I brought up the fact that 'No drug is good or bad, they're all just A drug, what someone does with them determines the postive or negative outcome. Look at medicine, those are drugs' Reponse was that 'well medicine solves problems' well so does LSD." -Learningtofly


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OfflineDiaboleros
Devil's spawn


Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 1,856
Last seen: 5 months, 10 days
Re: Neurosis [Re: mozhual]
    #11218007 - 10/09/09 11:55 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

Congratiulations, you can quote wiki, that must take some real knowledge about the rules of logic.


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Neurosis [Re: Mufungo]
    #11218009 - 10/09/09 11:56 PM (8 years, 12 days ago)

Does it really matter if a person doesn't know all the laws/rules of their logic they apply - can't they still be proud of their logical mind for what it does despite not knowing how it does it?


--------------------


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