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Amazon Shop: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, HEPA Filter, Incense, Laminar Flow Hood, Petri Dish

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OfflinePuma
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question regarding laminar flow
    #11212465 - 10/09/09 02:40 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Howdy. I'm new to the world of home mycology, but very keen. My one previous attempt (back in 1996) was a disaster of contamination. This time, I'll try to do it right. I just bought a 24x24x11.5 pleated HEPA filter and the associated hardware to construct a laminar flow hood.

My question has to do with the theory of laminar flow over a smooth surface. ALL of the flow hoods I have seen have the filter raised about an inch above the countertop, essentially the width of the filter frame and the bottom of the box. So, if the flow hood is blowing out a laminar flow of essentially sterile air, that clean air will miss the bottom inch directly above the countertop. Am I right to assume that contaminated air sneaks into that space? And if you put a petri dish or a syringe down on the counter, even directly in front of the flow hood, it could be bathing in contaminants, because it is not tall enough to reach the laminar flow?

If I understand this correctly, the laminar flow hood is only useful as long as you are holding things up in the space directly in front of the filter, but that the layer of air above the counter is potentially unclean, even if you've wiped it with alcohol and taken other precautions.

Is this correct, and do people have techniques to deal with this? For example, could you place a board equal to the width of the gap on top of the counter, and butt it up against the bottom edge of the filter, to create a clean work surface? Or would this cause friction that created turbulence?

I would love to read the ideas of those with experience using a flow hood!  Thanks...


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Invisibledancefloordale
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Re: question regarding laminar flow [Re: Puma]
    #11212621 - 10/09/09 03:13 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not sure. You'll get better answers when the board is more active, its pretty much dead for the night.


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OfflinePuma
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Re: question regarding laminar flow [Re: dancefloordale]
    #11216381 - 10/09/09 06:07 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Hmmm... yeah, I was hoping for someone to demystify this laminar flow question but I guess I'll just have to experiment by monitoring contamination rates to see what works best....


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Invisiblewygram
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Re: question regarding laminar flow [Re: Puma]
    #11216409 - 10/09/09 06:13 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Even flowhoods aren't perfect at keeping contams off your work.

Work in the flow, quickly, and methodically...
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Agar-Petri-Dishes


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: question regarding laminar flow [Re: wygram]
    #11216480 - 10/09/09 06:27 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Good luck. That sounds like a hard thing to achieve. I imagine a home made unit would have all kinds of chaotic eddies.

Instead of monitoring contamn rates, what about experimenting with smoke to observe flow patterns?


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InvisibleShea25
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Re: question regarding laminar flow [Re: Puma]
    #11216947 - 10/09/09 08:04 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I would start with a Still Air Box if your new to the home growing scene. Its cheaper, Easy to make, less things that could go wrong 


Edited by Shea25 (10/09/09 08:05 PM)


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: question regarding laminar flow [Re: Shea25]
    #11217299 - 10/09/09 09:28 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shea25 said:
I would start with a Still Air Box if your new to the home growing scene. Its cheaper, Easy to make, less things that could go wrong 




No way man. Build this thing so we can learn from your mistakes! :cool:


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: question regarding laminar flow [Re: Puma]
    #11218140 - 10/10/09 12:26 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Puma said:

My question has to do with the theory of laminar flow over a smooth surface. ALL of the flow hoods I have seen have the filter raised about an inch above the countertop, essentially the width of the filter frame and the bottom of the box. So, if the flow hood is blowing out a laminar flow of essentially sterile air, that clean air will miss the bottom inch directly above the countertop. Am I right to assume that contaminated air sneaks into that space?





That is correct.  Dirty air will also carburete into that space from the edges.

I use a wire rack in front of the  flowhood to elevate petri dishes into the flow.  Another method is to have three our four empty petri dishes in front of the hood to set the ones you're working on.  You can look at the clips on my website for agar work and strain isolation to see the rack in use.
RR


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Offlinejerrylove
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Re: question regarding laminar flow [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11218214 - 10/10/09 12:38 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I would like to ask RR a question. How significantly can a flow hood cut down on contams compared to a glove box. Sorry not trying to thread jack I think it does apply in a way.


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InvisibleBrainiac
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Re: question regarding laminar flow [Re: jerrylove]
    #11218232 - 10/10/09 12:40 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

You work in a area of clean moving air...But you still have to follow some rules.....


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: question regarding laminar flow [Re: jerrylove]
    #11218239 - 10/10/09 12:42 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jerrylove said:
I would like to ask RR a question. How significantly can a flow hood cut down on contams compared to a glove box. Sorry not trying to thread jack I think it does apply in a way.





If it is built right and use stay as sterile as possible and not fault in your procedure, then your contamination rate would drop to nearly 0.. Sence using a flow hood I have lost 1 jar in about 500..


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Offlinejerrylove
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Re: question regarding laminar flow [Re: Damion5050]
    #11218277 - 10/10/09 12:50 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Thank you Daminion5050 for the response. I think it might be my time for a real flow hood. That is incredibly promising to me.


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: question regarding laminar flow [Re: jerrylove]
    #11218294 - 10/10/09 12:54 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah check out my journal I have links in there about my flow hood build and where I got my supplies It saves a bunch of money if you can build it yourself instead of buying one already built..


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Offlinejerrylove
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Re: question regarding laminar flow [Re: Damion5050]
    #11218391 - 10/10/09 01:09 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

thanks! Good night all


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OfflinePuma
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Re: question regarding laminar flow [Re: jerrylove]
    #11219219 - 10/10/09 07:03 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Wow, what a treat to come home to all these insights. Very cool forums -- thanks guys!!!

RR, I checked out your videos and yes, that raised rack looks like a spot-on solution. I actually got hooked on watching those video previews! I'll probably splurge on the set one day soon.

And Jerrylove, that was a great thread-jack! It's a question I pondered long and hard before shelling out big bucks (for me) on a wood-framed HEPA. If you're interested in building a flow hood, check out these plans, which you can adjust to fit your filter: http://mushroompatch.ca/building_a_professional_flowhood.htm

Anonjon mentioned smoke testing.... that's a cool idea. Of course, smoke won't pass through the filter, but by burning incense on all sides of the laminar flow, you could watch to see if any of the smoke tends to penetrate the workspace...

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts!

I can't wait to get started... It seems like there's some interest so I'll post the flowbox project pictorial later this month (after I wrap my head around how these forums are organized...)


Edited by Puma (10/10/09 07:08 AM)


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: question regarding laminar flow [Re: Puma]
    #11219852 - 10/10/09 11:23 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Those plans you posted are the same plans I used to build mine.. I had to alter the size of the box because I went with an internal blower..  But those were the basic plans I started with..

Check out my journal you can see my flow hood build in there..

Here is me testing my filter for the first time making sure I was getting laminar flow.



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OfflinePuma
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Re: question regarding laminar flow [Re: Damion5050]
    #11224423 - 10/11/09 02:13 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Nice looking flow box! That's what I'll be shooting for. the internal blower must be nice, but I think I'll find mine too monstrous to go inside.

I'll check out your journal when I'm able... Being new here I'm locked out for the next few days. Cheers.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: question regarding laminar flow [Re: Puma]
    #11225674 - 10/11/09 11:33 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Another reason success rates go up so high with a flow hood, is you let it run for an hour or two in a closed room before starting sterile work.  During that hour, the flowhood constantly recycles the air, filtering it again and again.  The result is very clean air, even if some of it does slip into the sterile flow in front of the flowhood. 

Using a glovebox properly will give you about a 95% success rate, sometimes higher.  Using a flowhood properly will give a 99.99% success rate, and you have more room to work.
RR


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OfflinePuma
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Re: question regarding laminar flow [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11269842 - 10/18/09 08:09 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

With all of your comments and encouragement in mind, I went ahead and put together the flow hood, as you can see below. She isn't exactly pretty; I used an excess of caulk, and the blower is a tank. However, she seems produce a nice laminar flow at about the right velocity, so I'm happy!

Materials used were plywood, brackets, screws, a blower, silicone, a HEPA filter (99.992% efficient) and a pleated pre-filter. I should probably add another filter to block dust at the blower intake, as well.

One step closer to getting started! Feels good.













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OfflineThyrax
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Re: question regarding laminar flow [Re: Puma]
    #11269865 - 10/18/09 08:22 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

thats nice man ! congrats, how much did it cost ?


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Amazon Shop: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, HEPA Filter, Incense, Laminar Flow Hood, Petri Dish

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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