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Offlinebioguy
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column culture
    #11204547 - 10/08/09 01:10 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I have been planning on developing a column culture for cubensis and can't find any info on it. It was discussed years ago but no one seems to know if it works for cubensis.

For those unfamiliar with the idea...
A substrate in a tub exists in one dimension (the bottom surface of the tub) but a column exists in three (length x width x height) so a small space, like a 4' x 4' area, can contain nearly 100 sq feet  of substrate surface (unlike the 16 sq feet on the bottom of a 4' x 4' bin)if its packaged into columns or tubes and hung from above.

This idea has reportedly been employed on oysters but when the idea was proposed a few years ago for cubensis no one seemed interested. Which is odd because it could perhaps increase yield by 5 times.

I think rolls of coco liner could be used to create the tubes (6" across and 4' long), then stuff the tubes with manure and spawn, then hang them from the ceiling of the fruiting chamber (which would have to be really big).

I currently use a 5 head fogger to supply fae and humidity to 5 bins in a closet, but it would be plenty powerful to humidify the whole closet(4' x 4' x 8' area) and a metal frame with plastic sheet walls could be built to contain the micro climate. This would be a 6 times increase in surface area in the closet.

This would also eliminate CO2 buildup at the substrate surface.

Any thoughts or experience with this tek


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InvisibleI_was_the_walrus
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Re: column culture [Re: bioguy]
    #11204796 - 10/08/09 01:48 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Sounds to me like youve already got the whole idea down. Would you be using the liners as hanging pots for the mushrooms to grow up out of, or are you suggesting using the pots as part or the medium and fruiting all around?

It sounds like a great idea however I believe with a deeper substrate comes bigger fruits. Chopping that down to smaller containers may lead to smaller mushrooms. Meaning you would have to have alot more hanging to compensate for weight lost


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Offlinebioguy
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Re: column culture [Re: I_was_the_walrus]
    #11207085 - 10/08/09 01:12 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for the encouragement and the reply. Its been 10 years since this topic was last discussed and still no one seems interested. I agree I have over thought the system but that doesn't mean it would work. I'd be surprised if I'm the first to try this.

Regarding the question...I plan on fruiting the entire surface. I currently grow in an 80/20 mix of manure/coco ( 2 inches below and 1 inch above the myc, without casing). This 3 inch bed produces plenty of mushies and decent flushes. So I figured a 6" tube would hold plenty of substrate (even if it take a 9" tube the surface area under cultivation still skyrockets). The coco liner (rooled into tubes) would act as both a substrate holding container AND a half-ass casing. Hopefully the pins cover all surfaces (based on my side pinning history I can't imagine they wouldn't)

The real questions are
1) weather cubensis will pin/fruit aggressively through the coco liner. The material is about 1/2 or 3/4 inch thick and very similar to coco basket liners but its a roll and much thicker. All coco tek I can find use shredded coco.
2) will the cubensis be able to hold on to the coco well enough they don't fall off...they will not have ground below them (this is why this tek works so well for oysters/wood ear)
3)can the nutrients in coco be leeched out to make it a better casing.

Any other substrate or casing material available in rolls?


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OfflineMycoRunner
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Re: column culture [Re: bioguy]
    #11207118 - 10/08/09 01:18 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

It's definitely been done before with straw logs. Straw is pasturized, stuffed into long plastic tubes, spawned to and colonized. then when it's colonized it's opened up and hung horizontally in an FC with strings. Let me see if I can find the tek, I think it's on shroomtalk


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OfflineMycoRunner
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Re: column culture [Re: MycoRunner]
    #11207166 - 10/08/09 01:27 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Here it is: http://www.shroomtalk.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=32

I hope its ok to link to other forums. I think perhaps his method could be applied to your idea of making columns if you figured out how to suspend them.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: column culture [Re: bioguy]
    #11207197 - 10/08/09 01:33 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bioguy said:
Its been 10 years since this topic was last discussed and still no one seems interested.




I just don't see the point. You get a greater cropping surface, but your overall yield isn't going to be any larger.


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OfflineMycoRunner
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Re: column culture [Re: Doc_T]
    #11207600 - 10/08/09 02:33 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Well, a 100% straw makes an excellent substrate for cubes, based on what I've seen, and the extra surface area may make a difference, who knows.

We are guerrilla mycologists! Experimentation is in our blood!

I hope to hear any results you come up with, I really like the idea of using coco liner as a sort of container for the sub, but it may be easier to use something that'll hold together once colonized. I'm really interested in this!


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: column culture [Re: MycoRunner]
    #11207704 - 10/08/09 02:52 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MycoRunner said:
We are guerrilla mycologists! Experimentation is in our blood!




Well sure. But this seems like more of a novelty grow, as far as cubes are concerned. Oysters would benefit from vertical columns, but I doubt that cubes will.
It'll produce some nice pics, though.

Come to think of it, I bet you could use that coco mat stuff to make all sorts of shapes. Topiary shrooms.


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Offlinebioguy
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Re: column culture [Re: Doc_T]
    #11208388 - 10/08/09 04:32 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Straw mixed with manure seems like a great idea to give the log some structure and the substrate some diversity. If the log is initially wrapped in something will it develop overlay when the wrapper is removed after full colonization.

That's where the coco tube idea came from. However I am reading its not the best casing AND nobody seems to have used thick coco liner-in its unshredded form-as a casing (which is surprising since its thickness is appropriate and uniform). I guess I'll just start with that experiment.

I just did the math and realized the catch to this tek is in the surface area to volume ratio for flat and cylindrical surfaces (answering my own question). In a flat surface-1 square foot of 6 inch deep substrate = 1/2 cubic foot of sub per square foot of surface (close to optimal). 6 inch diameter tube is only equivalent to 1.2 inches of substrate.

So the yield for an 6 inch tube would be equivalent to 1.2 inches of sub regardless of surface area -8 inch tube would be equivalent to a 1.7 inch substrate- 12 inch tube = 2.5 inches of sub. Far below optimal but a 12 inch log is close to the 3" i already use. 

A 4 foot long x 12 inch wide log has a surface area of 12 feet.
9 hanging in a 4' x 4' area = 108 square feet of surface area. The largest bin I can get through the door is 2' x 3'= 6 sq feet (times 5 equals 30). IMO 108 square feet of 2.5 inch sub is better than 30 square feet of 3 inch sub.

If you have the liberty to use 6 or 9 inches of sub its probably not a good idea for you but i can stand pasteurizing that much poo. 

Unless,
someone has an idea for a better log wrapper material
OR
thinks that the log will fruit well without a wrapper
I am going for it.

I'll probably just do 2 flushes (standard for me anyway cause the contams and flies always get me within a month or so)
since I know the surface area will cause the sub to dry out faster.


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OfflineMycoRunner
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Re: column culture [Re: bioguy]
    #11208890 - 10/08/09 05:48 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not familiar with overlay. What is that? :blush:

The uncased straw logs grew beautifully in the log that I linked to. (I'm not sure if the pics will show up unless you sign up tho and this forum is far superior)


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Offlineshx764
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Re: column culture [Re: MycoRunner]
    #11209040 - 10/08/09 06:10 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

This is worth looking into with all the left over straw from the fall decorating.


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Offlinebioguy
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Re: column culture [Re: shx764]
    #11210256 - 10/08/09 09:31 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

overlay is when your substrate starts to seal itself up and look like a pf cake. Once it seals itself up yields suffer. or at least thats what I hear. I know I get better pinning when my substrate surface has a black and white appearance and less in places that are solid white (from mycelium overgrowth aka overlay). This is my understanding of overlay but it seems to be a contentious debate.


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Invisiblewygram
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Re: column culture [Re: bioguy]
    #11210328 - 10/08/09 09:40 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Contaminants like to take to straw in about the time it takes to get two flushes, so unless you know the third is worth it...

Moisture loss shouldn't be a huge problem as cubes prefer a higher humidity than oysters, since you'll be keeping the humidity up they shouldn't lose too much in the first two flushes.


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