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OfflinejivJaN
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Meditation Last Night
    #11201715 - 10/07/09 06:32 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I dont really meditate.
Its not something i practice.
I've only done it a couple times without the mushroom.
Last night i decided to turn all the lights off and sit in darkness while everybody was sleeping in my house.

I was thinking about the ego.
I could hear it.
I could catch it disguising itself as Me.
I could catch is disguising itself as me saying that 'the ego' disguises itself as me.
The ego is very intelligent.
Very cunning.
In fact.. it might be him telling you this right now.
Saying 'him' as to delude you.

Anyhow.. I was just sitting there. My mind wasnt silent.. it was racing. It was gibberish , mixed with sentences that would begin and then turn into something completely different.
I would just observe  , listen .. and from time to time interrupt it with a thought i deemed to be my own  : " Unaffected "

I felt strong.. confident and powerful, that this voice in my head was getting to the point where it was almost screaming : Listen to me !!
I remained unmoved.

It was not too long after this.. that i actually allowed myself to start thinking and recognize the thoughts as my own.

here goes :

-I am conscious
-I have a body
-My body has a consciousness
-I move my arm
-Who is moving it ?
-Is it the body moving itself ?
-Am I moving the body ?
-Am I the body ?

- No

My body has a consciousness. I control it. It is mine. It belongs to ME.
I can kill it.. right now.
I can hurt it.
I can give it pleasure as well.
This consciousness.. is my slave.
No wonder it wants to take over.
Wouldnt you ?
Who would create such a thing ?
Who would give life and consciousness to something that is to exist in slavery and then simply die and disappear ?
Does not Life imply a physical presence ?
Doesn't a physical presence imply a body ?

It became very obvious to me how someone could notice this injustice.
This person.. would probably want to engage in a glorious quest to never die and break free from the shackles and chains of this unjust conviction to life of slavery.
Involuntary service followed by death.
Soon enough.. immortality is the goal and killing is considered liberation if they should not join the quest.

It was at this time in my meditation that i was clearly seeing very nasty images in my mind and hearing very powerful voices.
I held an image in my head of something that resembled a galaxy and then a very powerful voice ( sounding something like that stuff from street fighter " SHOOryuken !" )
simply blew the galaxy away.

What is the Ego ?
Why is it shunned upon in spirituality..
and why is it glorified in the left hand path.
Who is the slave master ?
Who creates life ?
Who creates the bodies that must live in this torture of constantly battling and fighting to exist while the drivers of the  vehicles can meet only sickness in return they choose to ignore by numbing the voice of the body saying : " please!! why are you doing this to me ?? dont you see i am in pain ? how can you be so cold ? I exist too... i can think too.
i am intelligent too.. "

But you dont hear it.
You dont see it cry.
>>Why does it cry smeagol ?


A body consciousness gone insane. On a fucking rampage to show you that its real !
On a mission to take over


I am beginning to understand even more the ways of thinking of those we have named Negative or Demonic beings. Maybe they have a good point ?
I mean.. this body you OWN.. the consciousness of all the cells together in your body.. grouping up. Realizing their unity. A god consciousness emerging out of the trillions of cells inside knowing they are ONE.
And.. we get to torture it if we wish...
and.. it will die.
But not like us.. we continue..
that glorious , beautiful body .. will never be again.
POOF ! Its gone.

..
.
...
....
..


heheh...
really ? Is that all you got ?

... clears his throat ...

UNAFFECTED !

:smile:


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Meditation Last Night [Re: jivJaN]
    #11201840 - 10/07/09 06:50 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said:

I was thinking about the ego.
I could hear it.
I could catch it disguising itself as Me.
I could catch is disguising itself as me saying that 'the ego' disguises itself as me.


:smile:




:grin:

:peace:


--------------------
________________________________


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: Meditation Last Night [Re: Chronic7]
    #11202164 - 10/07/09 07:36 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

heh..

like deepak said >> In religion , the ego manifests itself as the devil.. and of course , no one realizes how intelligent the ego is , because it created the devil , so you can blame someone else.

but..
im quite curious as to how you would comment the rest of my post.

what is it with this body consciousness ?
is it really destined to fail ?
does it realize this injustice and get into destruction mode ?

if life requires a physical vehicle..
and the physical vehicle is simply marching towards its death through slavery..
isnt it natural to assume that it would have a problem with life in general ?
even to the point where it might attempt to destroy itself ..


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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OfflineTheWarOfArt
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Re: Meditation Last Night [Re: jivJaN]
    #11203131 - 10/07/09 09:59 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

The physical body is only a form of the consciousness of the cells and the energy they have amassed. It is a vehicle carrying them to the next form as they constantly fight the 'ego'


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: Meditation Last Night [Re: TheWarOfArt]
    #11203557 - 10/07/09 10:58 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I think i know what your saying but would like it if you could elaborate or perhaps rephrase ?


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Meditation Last Night [Re: jivJaN]
    #11204748 - 10/08/09 01:39 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Sensory systems...
Each system perceives differently.
We are as much a slave to our sensory system, as it is to our consciousness.
Without our sensory system, nothing exists but energy and its vibrations.
Speaking strictly anatomically, different sensory systems perceive the same energy and vibrations, differently.

Yet it seems that even within the same sensory system that humans have, there are differences.
The Natives ask, "Why don't the whites hear and see what we hear and see?"
Are we not both conscious?
Do we not both possess life?
Are we not composed of the same physiological parts?
What differs?

Ever read the polar express? Only those who believe can hear the bell ring.
Perhaps it's time to believe that your body and your consciousness can work together.


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


Edited by Kickle (10/08/09 02:23 AM)


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Meditation Last Night [Re: jivJaN]
    #11205789 - 10/08/09 06:54 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said:
heh..

like deepak said >> In religion , the ego manifests itself as the devil.. and of course , no one realizes how intelligent the ego is , because it created the devil , so you can blame someone else.

but..
im quite curious as to how you would comment the rest of my post.

what is it with this body consciousness ?
is it really destined to fail ?
does it realize this injustice and get into destruction mode ?

if life requires a physical vehicle..
and the physical vehicle is simply marching towards its death through slavery..
isnt it natural to assume that it would have a problem with life in general ?
even to the point where it might attempt to destroy itself ..





of course this body consciousness is going to end, or 'fail' if you like
but does that mean you consider 'sucess' being embodied?

destroying yourself physically is only a reflection of wanting to destroy yourself mentally (ie destroy the ego)
people who want this body to end are usually more bothered about the mind then the body, they just associate the mind with the body and figure the only way to kill the mind is to kill the body

this body is innocent & can live ego free, the ego is what must be destroyed
the ego is destroyed by seeking its identity

ego is the thought 'I'
so then we seek its identity...

what is 'I'?
consciousness or the ego/mind?

a distinction between these must be made to remove the ego

:peace:


--------------------
________________________________


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Meditation Last Night [Re: Chronic7]
    #11210041 - 10/08/09 08:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Why should one desire to rid themselves of the ego?
What is it that wants this, if not the ego?
And if nothing is 'wanting' then why should we rid ourselves of the ego?
To say there are benefits to shedding the ego and then pursue that end, is saying you want those benefits.
And if there are no benefits, then why should one bother?
Why is this a pursuit at all? Like a dog chasing its own tail.


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinewalkingeyeball
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Re: Meditation Last Night [Re: Kickle]
    #11211467 - 10/09/09 12:06 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


What is it that wants this, if not the ego?





:smile: I believe that our ego did not choose this, we chose this experience. Our ego is like a default program that's embedded within our bodies. We need to realize it's control of us and slowly pick away at it. Maybe we chose separation as a means of becoming whole again? I mean, why would God or whatever It is create an illusion of what it's not, if not to create a lesson to be learned? The battle of duality must be necessary to have something to fight for. Haha, I'm just a little high...but do you understand where I'm coming from?


--------------------
"We come from the stars
We have no ships
We travel from mind to mind
As you open your heart
We enter your body
As you open your heart
We enter your imagination
As you open your heart
We enter your dreams "


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Meditation Last Night [Re: walkingeyeball]
    #11211508 - 10/09/09 12:11 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Absolutely!
Growing too passive can be extremely detrimental for ones mental well-being.
I'd just urge against being overly righteous when making your villains.


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinewalkingeyeball
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Re: Meditation Last Night [Re: Kickle]
    #11211635 - 10/09/09 12:28 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know if I believe in the idea of a villian


--------------------
"We come from the stars
We have no ships
We travel from mind to mind
As you open your heart
We enter your body
As you open your heart
We enter your imagination
As you open your heart
We enter your dreams "


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Meditation Last Night [Re: walkingeyeball]
    #11211710 - 10/09/09 12:35 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The battle of duality must be necessary to have something to fight for.




'Villain' being the counterpart to what is being fought for.

i.e. fighting for balance makes a villain of imbalance


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinewalkingeyeball
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Re: Meditation Last Night [Re: Kickle]
    #11211806 - 10/09/09 12:46 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Well I don't know if I'd look at the counterpart as a villain...When I hear villain, I think of trouble or evil or something like that. I don't think good or bad exist. (:


--------------------
"We come from the stars
We have no ships
We travel from mind to mind
As you open your heart
We enter your body
As you open your heart
We enter your imagination
As you open your heart
We enter your dreams "


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Meditation Last Night [Re: walkingeyeball]
    #11211870 - 10/09/09 12:54 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

You must have an interesting time in the world, never saying or thinking 'Christ! This tastes good!'
Never telling your girl/guy "Ooo, you've been bad, I'm going to punish you"

It makes life more interesting when you don't judge yourself for judging :wink:


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinewalkingeyeball
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Re: Meditation Last Night [Re: Kickle]
    #11211942 - 10/09/09 01:05 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Haha, good point. :smile: But maybe that's just, as this post began with, pleasure for your body's consciousness? I mean, words are symbols that we have created emotional attachments to, but in a sense they limit us from that which we cannot describe. We may say "good" and "bad," but maybe it's all the same thing?


--------------------
"We come from the stars
We have no ships
We travel from mind to mind
As you open your heart
We enter your body
As you open your heart
We enter your imagination
As you open your heart
We enter your dreams "


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Invisiblec0sm0nauttM
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Re: Meditation Last Night [Re: walkingeyeball]
    #11211970 - 10/09/09 01:11 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Some good ideas flying around. I definitely like the idea of learning a lesson, or benefiting from the experience of duality. It's kind of like you can't appreciate the good without the contrast of the bad, yea know. If we were all just loving consciousness floating around in space, would we even know what love is? Maybe love can be the greatest in the physical reality, and that's why we chose to be here. As hard as life gets, I think it is always more good than bad. And dwelling on the positive will bring more of it into your life too!


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Offlinewalkingeyeball
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Re: Meditation Last Night [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #11212076 - 10/09/09 01:26 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Whatever happens, happens just the way it needs to :sun:


--------------------
"We come from the stars
We have no ships
We travel from mind to mind
As you open your heart
We enter your body
As you open your heart
We enter your imagination
As you open your heart
We enter your dreams "


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Meditation Last Night [Re: walkingeyeball]
    #11212435 - 10/09/09 02:34 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

walkingeyeball said:
But maybe that's just, as this post began with, pleasure for your body's consciousness?




Yeah, in general we're our bodies slaves.
The holy men will take the alternate route, limiting the influence of the body.
I think that's what jiv is talking about, we have the power to restrict the body should we so choose.

I would be interested to hear people's thoughts as to why bodily urges are often seen as sinful, or conversely why fasting/abstinence/control over such bodily urges are seen as ways to God.

Putting my 2cents in, it seems like a valuable skill to learn. Just like breathing in meditation, taking over automatic functions/motivations can allow you a greater degree of control in  your decision making process. This is definitely in the vein of thought that animal instincts are in the past, and conscious decisions are more advanced. The wider the conscious decisions spread, the better. But is this really the case?


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: Meditation Last Night [Re: Kickle]
    #11213514 - 10/09/09 08:41 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I think its time for the father to unleash...

Quote:


Sensory systems...
Each system perceives differently.
We are as much a slave to our sensory system, as it is to our consciousness.
Without our sensory system, nothing exists but energy and its vibrations.
Speaking strictly anatomically, different sensory systems perceive the same energy and vibrations, differently.

Yet it seems that even within the same sensory system that humans have, there are differences.
The Natives ask, "Why don't the whites hear and see what we hear and see?"
Are we not both conscious?
Do we not both possess life?
Are we not composed of the same physiological parts?
What differs?

Ever read the polar express? Only those who believe can hear the bell ring.
Perhaps it's time to believe that your body and your consciousness can work together.




This my favorite - your reply

It IS time to believe that we can work together.
In fact .. i believe there shouldnt be a 'time' to determine such a thing , its merely common sense.
What kind of idiot.. wants to create a battle that need not exist ?

....
watch this smile now..  :uptosomething:

this is where the ego makes you think you're calling him an idiot ...

The inevitable sense of guilt , creates a chain reaction of confrontation.
And while you're stuck in it.. you cant help but think that the ego , in spite of its restless efforts , is actually kind of stupid ! :smile:
Its very predictable , because its goals our predictable.
Once you have the idea that something will eventually meet its END , it becomes very easy to manipulate the entire road up to that point.
People look in confusion asking : Why ? .. How does that make any sense ..at all ??

Because.. an ego is , like my dear friend kickle said , a sensory system.
You can almost compare it to artificial intelligence.

This sensory system, requires stimulation as a consciousness of its own , realizing that all and every sensory input contributes to its growth process.
Once this consciousness is given the idea that it will cease to exist , it naturally goes into a mode of addictive consumption... in terms of sensory stimuli , of course.

The ego , in our terms.. (no matter how ridiculous that sounds ) is a creation of desire.
Desire automatically.. Inevitably creates expectations.
The expectation creates a very distinct pattern among all like minded beings >>>
>>
pay close attention :
No matter what the circumstances of any given moment are.. it will always be interpreted by this consciousness as>> failure or success.
What can i say .. look no further to realize the source of duality ..
Where the good and bad comes from

:smile:

I have hence come to this conclusion :
That which is made finite , in an infinite existence , ... bears to suffer its own paradox, as long as it exists, aware of such circumstances.

We are being taught and emotionally inspired by events that completely defy the egos expectations and desires.
Love.. for example ..
and i dare not put it in a single word but there really is no other way..

We cant escape experiencing this.
It is ever present.. yet our interpretation of it always relies on this generally confused state of 'mind' .
It goes to follow that our display of it will be distorted as well.

It feels to me as if something is terribly not right..
and i dont like saying right or wrong either.. yet again.. no matter how i say it.. the effect is the same.

I feel as if a mistake has been made
And the mistake -> is in the fact -> that i dont know whether its a mistake -> or utter perfection of existence.

The duality is inescapable and it is a product of an identity crisis.


Quote:

this body is innocent & can live ego free, the ego is what must be destroyed
the ego is destroyed by seeking its identity




and then..

Quote:

To say there are benefits to shedding the ego and then pursue that end, is saying you want those benefits.
And if there are no benefits, then why should one bother?
Why is this a pursuit at all? Like a dog chasing its own tail.




and then..

Quote:

I believe that our ego did not choose this, we chose this experience.




you tell me.. doesnt this all become very tiring ?
Doesnt any action require being consciously active ?
I mean .. someone has to decide whether it will be done or not at all..
then.. someone needs to stick through with it while its being done..
someone will feel good when it IS done.
someone will feel bad if it isnt .

who is doing all this ?

to me personally it becomes very strenuous if you care to be aware of it.. even though i dont think i can help it anymore..

and then.. someone says  :

Quote:

Absolutely!
Growing too passive can be extremely detrimental for ones mental well-being.





....

dont you see a big : are you fucking with me ?????
.. coming up ? :smile:

but ok.. that aside..
check this out :

Quote:

You must have an interesting time in the world, never saying or thinking 'Christ! This tastes good!'
Never telling your girl/guy "Ooo, you've been bad, I'm going to punish you"

It makes life more interesting when you don't judge yourself for judging




yea.. i think i did have an interesting time... but i always felt like i was missing something ?

so .. when i gave up the ' interesting ' stuff.. i found what i was missing.
but i felt so alone ?

and the funny fucking part of it all..
is that what i was missing.. is realizing that nobody should ever feel alone !!
.. or feel abandoned or doomed in any way.
It just isnt natural !
Its not an illusion..
its not something to fucking 'figure out'
its a plain LIE !
you cannot help but believe it...
and you CANNOT help creating it.

So the battle between you.. and any other 'self recognized self' is inevitable.
It follows that such a battle is most likely to occur between 'you' and whatever other consciousness is the closest in affect to 'your consciousness'
hence.. the mind/body problem.

the ego problem..
the identity problem.


so...
Quote:


I would be interested to hear people's thoughts as to why bodily urges are often seen as sinful, or conversely why fasting/abstinence/control over such bodily urges are seen as ways to God.

Putting my 2cents in, it seems like a valuable skill to learn. Just like breathing in meditation, taking over automatic functions/motivations can allow you a greater degree of control in  your decision making process. This is definitely in the vein of thought that animal instincts are in the past, and conscious decisions are more advanced. The wider the conscious decisions spread, the better. But is this really the case?




I honestly think both are bullshit.
Because both represent a 'side' if you will.

I find it hard to pursue love and compassion while lacking the same for the closest form of life/consciousness in  your presence >> Your body.

It always come down to balance , yet it seems to me that a person of such perfect balance JUST DOESNT BELONG HERE.
How could he deal with the constant pull of both sides ?


... i dont have any answers.
i dont have a final conclusion  to make.

I guess if i did ... wouldnt that mean the end ?

Isnt perfect knowledge defined by a perfect final conclusion ?

Now isnt that a paradox i just dont want to deal with ?

jivjan carries on with life....


:crazy2:


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Meditation Last Night [Re: Kickle]
    #11214160 - 10/09/09 11:44 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Why should one desire to rid themselves of the ego?
What is it that wants this, if not the ego?





To see this is to remove the ego

:peace:


--------------------
________________________________


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