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Offlinedutc2006
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Bulk sub materials
    #11196208 - 10/06/09 09:37 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

I'm trying to determine what will be the best substrate material for my spawn which will be ready in a couple days.  I was going to use black kow manure but have read it isn't that good for mushies.  I have a brick of coconut fibers sitting around from my herbal cultivation and was thinking of using it.  Can somebody tell me if this is a better option?  Can I use it in the fiber form?


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OfflineSillyBilly
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Re: Bulk sub materials [Re: dutc2006]
    #11196223 - 10/06/09 09:39 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

why dont you mix them together and pasteurize them?
theres a lot of people who will tell you coir+poo is very good


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OfflineSparkey_STi
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Re: Bulk sub materials [Re: SillyBilly]
    #11196269 - 10/06/09 09:46 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Poo, Coir, Verm, Spent Coffee grinds, gypsum, hay, Crushed Oyster Shell, and even more crap can be used for bulk sub... most those can be done all by themselfs; but you'll get better results by mixing.  Personally i do

1 Brick Coir (bout 8 quarts)
1 Bag Verm (8 Quarts)
1 bag starbucks (free, and packaged, and ready to go)
plus
1 quart gypsum (for the coir, 10% by vol of your coir content)
mix with 7 quarts water and im good to go.

So easy; take all the stuff; put it in a 5 gal bucket; dump in your water after its been brought to a boil for a minute and just mix it as it cools; when its cool, its ready to go.  Perfect pasteruized substrate


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Offlinedkamp18
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Re: Bulk sub materials [Re: Sparkey_STi]
    #11196315 - 10/06/09 09:57 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

^^coir holds a pretty good amount of water, you should lower the ratio of coir to verm to maybe 3-1. if the verm is really that necessary.

just saying, dont take my word as the gospel I have only used coir twice, but it seemed to hold water well and i didnt use verm for anything other than casing


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Re: Bulk sub materials [Re: dkamp18]
    #11196451 - 10/06/09 10:17 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

yeah thats way too much vermiculite, you should really reduce that amount to 3:1 (coir to verm). just like dkamp said, coir holds moisture fine, you may be putting to much moisture into your substrate if you use that much verm with it.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Bulk sub materials [Re: Sparkey_STi]
    #11196513 - 10/06/09 10:26 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Sparkey_STi said:
1 Brick Coir (bout 8 quarts)
1 Bag QUART Verm (8 Quarts)
1 bag QUART starbucks (free, and packaged, and ready to go)
plus
UP TO BUT NOT MORE THAN 1 quart gypsum
mix with 7 FOUR quarts BOILING water and im good to go.




Yes.


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InvisibleRonPaulVerm
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Re: Bulk sub materials [Re: Doc_T]
    #11196857 - 10/06/09 11:18 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

I've had good growth with cheap organic humus before :shrug:


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Re: Bulk sub materials [Re: RonPaulVerm]
    #11196974 - 10/06/09 11:32 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

I like doc's recipe


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OfflineSparkey_STi
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Re: Bulk sub materials [Re: scrotesmcgrotes]
    #11198082 - 10/07/09 02:11 AM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Each person has their own.  Cant hate getting 5.5g dry mushies from it.  Yet to really do me wrong.  I wished i could find the RR post about how its just mushie food and it grows fine with 100% of each; and more additives would make for better subs...  Theres no "magic recipe" or anything.

And how do you get away with 4 quarts on a brick of coir plus those?  It'd be so freaking dry for me... last batch i used 6 quarts water and it was pushin it...


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OfflineSA5M
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Re: Bulk sub materials [Re: dutc2006]
    #11198236 - 10/07/09 02:52 AM (8 years, 18 days ago)

I would suggest you do some reading on established tek's. Check the Substrate Archive.
Personally these have worked consistently for me, especially Roadkill's.:headbanger:
Roadkill's Horse Poo Tek Pictorial
ShroomGod's Straw Tek
Akira Orissa India Bulk Grow (Tub Tek)
Coffee, seaweed extract and horse poo
Psilocybe cubensis WBS spawn to horse dung


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Offlinedutc2006
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Re: Bulk sub materials [Re: SA5M]
    #11198552 - 10/07/09 05:08 AM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Thanks for all input everybody.  I suppose black kow is not all that bad, just not the best when used alone...

To me the consensus seems to be that coir, verm, used dry coffee grounds, and gypsum are a good combo.  Clearly the water content the most important variable.  Does field capacity apply the same way with subs, add until just beginning to collect in bottom of mixing bowl?  And should I worry about using the coir in fiber form?  I read somewhere thefiber kind is not good for casings so I wondered if the same is true for subs.


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Re: Bulk sub materials [Re: dutc2006]
    #11198943 - 10/07/09 09:29 AM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Fiberous coir is fine.  And IMO; water in the bottom means to much water.  You want it to where you hold it no water drips; squeeze and a few drops come how.  Basically 100% wet; but not over saturated.


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InvisibleM11
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Re: Bulk sub materials [Re: Sparkey_STi]
    #11199240 - 10/07/09 10:55 AM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Here is my recipe...  Nothing too special... Just very diverse...

6 parts coir
2 parts composted cow manure
3 parts verm
1.5 parts coffee grounds
1.5 parts worm castings
0.75 parts gypsum


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Offlinedutc2006
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Re: Bulk sub materials [Re: M11]
    #11201820 - 10/07/09 06:48 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

Awesome, thanks for the good info guys.  Now if I could just find gypsum at one of my garden centers.  I dont think Lowes or HD have it, and my local hardware/garden guy I use who has most everything doesnt have it.  I may have to order it but I guess it is worth it.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Bulk sub materials [Re: dutc2006]
    #11201891 - 10/07/09 06:56 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

dutc2006 said:
I dont think Lowes or HD have it, and my local hardware/garden guy I use who has most everything doesnt have it.




Lowes and HD don't have gypsum, not in the garden section. You can bash up drywall if you like. Or get the garden center guy to order you a bag.

Quote:

dutc2006 said:
I may have to order it but I guess it is worth it.



It's good- but don't pay shipping.


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Offlinedutc2006
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Re: Bulk sub materials [Re: Doc_T]
    #11202819 - 10/07/09 09:10 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

Thanks man.

My girlfriend's mom used to run a seed and feed/ garden supply store and my girlfriend worked there when she was young, she says she remembers having gypsum.  But then again she could easily be mistaken.  I see it online I just don't know if it is commonplace at garden supply stores. Guess I'll keep lookin.  The thing is it seems gypsum is used to 1) keep compost from becoming compacted and 2) lower pH 3) provide calcium and sulphur.  Well I can lower pH in other ways.  I have pH up and down for my hydro systems. It seems the coir and verm would also aerate the mix, so maybe i could engineer my own method?  Probably not wise talk for a first timer LOL especially when gypsum is so cheap and is said to really help yields, but it also appears you can throw just about anything into your sub and it will work.


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Re: Bulk sub materials [Re: dutc2006]
    #11203024 - 10/07/09 09:44 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

Depends.  Most garden stores dont carry it unless the natural ground of your area requires it.  I LUCKED out and found mega bags (40lbs) for like $12 at the ONE garden store that had it.  Found out its not used in soils here... so why would anyone carry it?

But Ace, or other non-mega chain stores with garden centers may have it.  Just depends how hard you want to look...


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Re: Bulk sub materials [Re: Sparkey_STi]
    #11205435 - 10/08/09 04:11 AM (8 years, 17 days ago)

Thanks, that makes perfect sense.  Lucky for me the area I live in is prne to clay ground so it should be available somewhere.  I have read so much varying info on sub pH - some places I've read cubs like 7.0 then I have also read they like a slightly acidic sub.  Which is the right one? I am having trouble finding concrete info on this. 

Is there any benefit to using natural water vs. tap in sub preparation?


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OfflineGoat Boy
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Re: Bulk sub materials [Re: Sparkey_STi]
    #11206013 - 10/08/09 08:14 AM (8 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Sparkey_STi said:
Poo, Coir, Verm, Spent Coffee grinds, gypsum, hay, Crushed Oyster Shell, and even more crap can be used for bulk sub... most those can be done all by themselfs; but you'll get better results by mixing.  Personally i do

1 Brick Coir (bout 8 quarts)
1 Bag Verm (8 Quarts)
1 bag starbucks (free, and packaged, and ready to go)
plus
1 quart gypsum (for the coir, 10% by vol of your coir content)
mix with 7 quarts water and im good to go.

So easy; take all the stuff; put it in a 5 gal bucket; dump in your water after its been brought to a boil for a minute and just mix it as it cools; when its cool, its ready to go.  Perfect pasteruized substrate




So you don't need to put it in a pillowcase, etc to pasteurize it?


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InvisibleM11
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Re: Bulk sub materials [Re: dutc2006]
    #11206260 - 10/08/09 09:55 AM (8 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

dutc2006 said:
Thanks, that makes perfect sense.  Lucky for me the area I live in is prne to clay ground so it should be available somewhere.  I have read so much varying info on sub pH - some places I've read cubs like 7.0 then I have also read they like a slightly acidic sub.  Which is the right one? I am having trouble finding concrete info on this. 

Is there any benefit to using natural water vs. tap in sub preparation?




Any pH around neutral (6-8), I would imagine, will be fine...

If you can find some good natural water, ie. pond, spring, lake, river water, I would use that.  But tap water will be more than sufficient.  Just don't use bottled water; it's not worth it.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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