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epistemology and entity contact
    #1119595 -

I'd have to say my favorite branch of philosophy is epistemology: "But how can we know that we know that?" Now two days ago I was under the influence of some of my babies (best batch ever!) and I decided to do some yoga. I didn't get very far, however, because I quickly realized that I was being contacted. I closed my eyes and saw two entities that I can only describe as feline. They were studying me, and kept asking "Who are you?" I can still remember what they looked like: swirls of black and purple with deep red streaks of eyes, continuously moving and shifting. The larger of the two was the one asking the question, the smaller one was simply observing the process. Now I believe that whenever you come into some strange situation like this it's best, at the time, to act as if it's true. Fighting a trip can only lead to bad things, it's best to accept what is happening and interact with it as if it is real. But afterwards when I was coming down I immediately found myself thinking of them as subconscious projections of parts of my own psyche. I've experienced entites at various other times, but this was the first time any of them addressed me personally.

So my question for everyone is: without external verification, how can one know whether 'entity contact' is genuine or a projection? Many people have spoken that the realms opened up by tryptamines are inhabited, but due to the nature of the trip it's extremely difficult to seek outside verification to any experience. And even if someone else was with me, also under the influence, and s/he didn't percieve contact I could just rationalize that they didn't want to contact hir. So how can I tell the difference between other entities and other aspects of my own psyche?
-m

(on a side note, 3g is pretty low for entity contact, isn't it?)


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(the above was deciphered from phi (~1.62) using an advanced alphanumeric conversion algorhythm and should not be perceived as meaningful.)

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: machineelf368]
    #1120053 -

Good thread! melf

Each question's answer is dependent on a number of variables and definitions.

3gms? Depends on many things most importantly the content of the active ingredient(s). In the experience I am aware of that was unusual however.

Epistemology is a fascinating subject to be sure but its origin, Descartes mistake, is not so honorable. Philosophy in general went downhill from there.

If there is absolutely no external verification I do not think we could ever be sure what the entities are. But I am not sure what you mean by 'external verification'?

For example, during the time I was heavily reading Carlos Castaneda's books and practising lucid dreaming I fell asleep reading one of them and contacted a "dream woman" who gave me her name and a telephone number to reach her at. When I awoke I called the number and asked for her and they said she wasn't there right now and told me when to call back so I could speak to her. The number was long distance and contained 10 digits. I called back and spoke to her and confirmed very specific details about her and a friend of hers.

Is that external verification? You tell me.

What it is, in fact, is evidence that something out of the ordinary took place. What that was is a matter of interpretation though. And it doesn't necessarily, by itself prove anything.

Interesting experience, I'd say. (referring to yours)

Cheers,

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: ]
    #1120072 -

That's cool! I'd like to hear what Swami has to say about that one.


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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: Revelation]
    #1120091 -

Aye, so would I Lad, so would I.

The only explanation I ever received from someone who couldn't understand something unless it was scientific was it was just coincidence. I do not find that answer very satisfying.

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: Revelation]
    #1120103 -

I once fell asleep with the TV on. I had a dream telling to contact a very spiritual woman. In the morning, when I woke up, I Immediately dialed 1-900-psy-chic and lo and behold, my "teacher" was on the other end of the phone for only $3.99 per minute!

Seriously though Rev, what is there to say? It is hard to tell if it was a genuine mystical experience or a suppressed memory of a number heard before. As Spock would say: "Insufficient data."

Before everyone freaks out, I do not deny the possibility, neither do I accept the conclusion. Remember that one controlled episode of psychic prowess is worth more than 10,000 anecdotes, which is why I harp on that point.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: machineelf368]
    #1120131 -

it's best to accept what is happening and interact with it as if it is real. But afterwards when I was coming down I immediately found myself thinking of them as subconscious projections of parts of my own psyche.
This is exactly the process my own mind goes through during and after a "contact" trip...
What kind of information did you gather from these felines? Did it have anything to do with Egypt?

So how can I tell the difference between other entities and other aspects of my own psyche?
This is a question I endlessly ask myself. You must take into account the possibility of other dimensions of awareness besides the one we are normally tuned in to. These other dimensions are real in their own right, I think... But they are viewed as illusions from this reality's point of view. But from THAT reality's point of view, THIS one can be viewed as an illusion. Uh oh... I've done it again. The matrix is malfunctioning... Can... not... lose attachment.... to this.... reality....
.......
*explodes*

on a side note, 3g is pretty low for entity contact, isn't it?
I've had one of my most vivid experiences with an "entity" on less than 2g's....


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: Swami]
    #1120143 -

:grin:

The possibility of a repressed memory exists.  I was living in Denver at the time and the number was from Pueblo.  Our area code was 303 and theirs was 719 or 714.  The number belonged to a mom and pop restaurant which as far as I know did not advertise in Denver.  Did they have matchbooks with their number on it?  I cannot remember.  The girl's name was Kathy but I cannot remember her friend's name. It was a bit odd as I recall.  The conversation spooked her but not too much.  She was taken aback when I told her I got the number in a dream.  I was in shock myself or I would have asked if they ever advertised.

Results: Inconclusive

As far as controlled experiments and their ability to give us reasonable evidence there are only a few possibilities that I can think of.

1.  Mystical experiences are a product of the mind and have no bearing on reality.

2.  We have not had a successful experiment but we will in the future because 'the other side' is:

a. biding their time
b. shy
c. do not want to us to have verifiable evidence
d. it is impossible to test these sorts of experiences due to their inherent nature

No one can say that my experience was not unusual, it was.

As far as the number portion of it is concerned I should mention that at that time in my life memorizing long series of numbers was relatively easy for me.  I used to be able to memorize 16 digit credit card numbers with no more than a glance and one time memorized a 32 digit water bill account number with no spaces inbetween in about 20 seconds.  Sadly, those days are gone. :frown: 

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: machineelf368]
    #1120168 -

Excerpt from http://deoxy.org/deoxyf.htm:

Reality Selection...a prerequisite for hearing the
multi-vocal planetary entity.

As humans endure the multi-faceted awareness of simultaneously converging information sources, they learn to dial and fine tune those frequencies appropriate to the concerns of the time and place they are in. With persistence, the development of a reality selection circuit (in the Central Neural System) encourages High-Velocity Interaction with other humans by virtue of tolerance.

Tolerance of differences
minimizes inertia
by maximizing flow.

By allowing for the unpredictability of simultaneous truths, certain humans start growing more receptive to signals beyond the realm of their own minds. It is here in the Concept-Free Zones where humans can unwrap their high-frequency antennae from self-preoccupation and direct it towards each other.. and down to the planetary entitiy.. on up to the stars and.. beyond. Perhaps, humans may be free to restore their service to the planetary entity and eventually establish membership in an intergalactic federation of vertically-stable Alien Space Beings.

In addition to its own indigenous voices and frequency shifts, the Earth is a local resonant conductor for non-local, extraterrestrial transmissions. Alien Space Beings and other interstellar entities broadcast messages via DNA, the native language of the Planetary Entity. Consequently, these signals traverse throughout all living forms on Earth.

Those humans awakening to the ongoing dialogue between their individual Central Neural Systems (CNS) and their originating DNA coils are now subject to intergalactic influences. Eighty-nine percent of the human population is unable to tolerate the impact of such direct spiritual transmission, so the socio-moral inertias of religions and/or philosophical grids have been superimposed to slow things down.

This same CNS/DNA interaction is known by many names as each culture assigns their own conceptual bias to this universal truth, i.e., Jesus and the Christ.. Guatama and the Buddha.. but more specifically.. a Human Being and the Planetary Entity.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: ]
    #1120330 -

I have trouble getting women's phone numbers on the corporeal realm.......what's your secret? :grin: :wink: 


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1120351 -

I'm not especially good looking I don't think. I don't know but I've been told I have a smooth tongue, whatever that means.

[walks away licking his eyebrows]

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: ]
    #1120404 -

[walks away licking his eyebrows]

You mean like the guy in "Roxy Carmichael"?(one of the last movies i ever saw circa 93). Well the thing is Mr Shrooms, even if you didn't posess "drop dead" good looks(a sick concept at best imo), your intelligence,wisdom and degree of articulation would more than carry you through i'm sure....i must concede that right now, with everything that's going on in my life, obtaining girl's/'womenn's phone numbers is the least of my concerns..... :frown:
      But when and if the day rolls around again where it matters, i'll be sure and keep that line: "well, i was given your number in a dream" at the top of my list  :grin: 


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: ]
    #1120966 -

Mr. M: I'd say your experience indeed counts as external verification, as much as anything can be 'verified.' I believe that calling something a 'coincidence' in effect means you don't want to think about it, so you give it a label and file it away. Your dream there is highly unlikely to be a coincidence, but then what was it? It could have been telepathy, astral travel, the collective unconscious, aliens moving memories from her mind to yours, any number of things. Generally speaking, finding giant mantises or elves or felines in a drug space doesn't lend itself to further verification like a phone number does. Next time I'll have to get their digits, maybe invite them back to my place for some coffee. My personal philosophy at a time like this is pragmatism a la William James. There's really no way to externally verify my encounter, so whatever explanation produces the most positive outcome in my life is the 'true' explanation. I'm not sure what that is right now, but I'll figure it out.

Adamist: I felt that our communication was direct thought-to-thought transfer. We didn't need to put concepts into words like I'm doing now, whole ideas subconsciously flowed between us. They read my memories, then one in particular seemed to be especially interesting so it was elaborated on by becoming conscious. I felt like they pressed "play" on my memory, rather than me doing it. But nothing about Egypt than I can remember. Do you ask because you've had "feline encounters" that came from Egypt?

Ah, good ol' deoxy! That's quite an article, thanks.
-m


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(the above was deciphered from phi (~1.62) using an advanced alphanumeric conversion algorhythm and should not be perceived as meaningful.)

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: machineelf368]
    #1121660 -

Thanks. I think that similiar events produced under the influence of psychotropic plants would lead a person to think there was something behind it all. I reserve my judgment until more data is in.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention and thank you for this thread.

Cheers,

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: machineelf368]
    #1122476 -

But nothing about Egypt than I can remember. Do you ask because you've had "feline encounters" that came from Egypt?

I had a type of "flasback" experience which felt like a dream but I was wide awake. I was focused on a cat, which had triggered some kind of memory that had to do with ancient Egypt and other-worldly rituals... It was intense yet very vague, like trying to remember something very, very far back. Also, I was sober.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: machineelf368]
    #1122565 -

nothing, my friend, has any meaning except the meaning you choose to give it...

that is a thought to ponder upon... i catch myself returning to that phrase very often... "is this a sign? what does it mean? is it that im supposed to go this way?"... and then i re-member... I am the one to decide what it meansand how i feel after the experience... only yourself can conclude whether it was real or not... and it doesnt necesarrily have to be "REAL" as in touchable... it is real for you, and that is in the end the only thing that matters... i like that phrase because it turns everything back to you... reminds you that you are always in control, you have your free will and you are the one creating and experiencing the situations in your life... sometimes id like to give away that responsibility and start seeking for "external verifications", as you call them... but i always end up looking inside of myself and finding the answer right there...

spiral out, keep going...


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Edited by Lozt Soul (12/08/02 05:44 PM)

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: In(di)go]
    #1122638 -

i like that phrase because it turns everything back to you... reminds you that you are always in control, you have your free will and you are the one creating and experiencing the situations in your life...

But is the feeling of being in control an illusion? Sometimes I wonder, if what happens to me is just an unfoldment, like a play, and everything has already happened except I have forgotten it, and life is a process of remembering this unfoldment. If this is so, then the feeling of control that I have is just something else I'm attached to to make myself feel comforted. Sorry if I am sounding confusing or vague... It's hard to express many of the thoughts I have. But I think that free will and determinism are actually the same thing, just looked at from different perceptions. Neither is "right" or "wrong", they are just how you perceive the universe.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: Adamist]
    #1122661 -

heh... actually just a few hours ago the bassplayer of my band and myself were talking about this exact same thing...

we were driving in the car aproaching a red traffic-light... my friend goes "green!" and i join in to command the light... and alas it flips to green... and he goes "and some people say telekinesis doesnt work... well it was probably just a coincidence"... i answer "there is no such thing as a coincidence"... and we started talking about the chaos-theory, and how the sudden light switching might just be a result of something totally different that might have happened long ago... or it might be the result of our force of will, so to speak... or it might even be the result of both... and then my friend said something interesting "actually everything that happens might be the result of a choice that was already made before you... so what we perceive as free will might just be the only possible reaction or only choice we have"... and then i added "yes, that is really possible... but if you consider the unity and connection of everything, it was actually a part of yourself who made that choice... just another aspect of the holy divine soul... and that aspect had only that desicion left, because of a desicion made before... and if we follow this pattern to the beginning we see that the ultimate choice that pushes us to make every desicion we make was actually gods will to experience himself... and since we are god, experiencing himself it was actually our choice... which returns us our free will"... well, i dunno if any of this made any sense, but as you said it is so hard to put these thoughts into words... especially if you have to translate them, too...

any thoughts on this?

to conclude i have to add that i believe in the concept of a single holy moment, and this proces of unfoldment, too... but this doesn't eliminate the concept of a free will... if anything id have to say it reenforces it... the moment is ever-changing, flowing and growing and morphing due to this mass conciousness... due to the choice of every single soul that forms this moment, that forms god...


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Edited by Lozt Soul (12/08/02 06:34 PM)

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: In(di)go]
    #1122697 -

"and if we follow this pattern to the beginning we see that the ultimate choice that pushes us to make every desicion we make was actually gods will to experience himself... and since we are god, experiencing himself it was actually our choice... which returns us our free will"

Good point... Since we are all fundamentally connected, let's call this being, as a whole, "God". We are like little pieces of God. But wouldn't what we think of as free will only apply to God, as a whole? If we are just pieces of the whole, then it is not our will, but God's Will, so to speak... Does a piece of a whole really have free will or is it just following the direction of the whole?


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: In(di)go]
    #1122862 -

Interesting ideas LS.  I am glad to see you are posting! :smile:

I have another explanation for the traffic lights changing though.

When you pull into an intersection there are all kinds on clues that determine how long the light has been at its last color.  Traffic flow, the amount of cars waiting at the intersection, or how far away the cars are that that passed through it and the speed at which they are traveling.  In my town I am ususally able to drive without stopping for lights because I analyze each of these factors and use them while I drive.

Another tipoff is the walk/don't walk signs.  They are timed to react with the lights.  By watching them you can figure it out pretty good.

I guess I believe in the 'unholy' moment. :wink:  :grin:

Cheers, 

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: In(di)go]
    #1123487 -

Great posts Lozt Soul! I enjoyed reading them.  :wink:

With my last trip, I got a phone call and nobody was on the other end. I hung up and later said to myself that it must have been me. Now I realize why I said this to myself- We are all fragments of God! LOL! Subconsiously I knew this and that's why I said it, but I said it whithout thinking about what I said. It all makes sense now. I love it when things fit like that!

:wink: :laugh: :grin:

As for that light thing- I do that all the time (say 'green' and it turns). I agree with Mr. Mushrooms on this one.



--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: machineelf368]
    #1124055 -

Did these entities walk upright? I encountered a race of beings that inhabit what I can only describe as the spirialed caverns in the sky........

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: machineelf368]
    #1124063 -

I performed a ritual to contact sirius based on Crowley / Robert Anton Wilson's methods. I used 3 microdots to as rocketfuel. I had the feeling of being watched that u speak of, also by entities with the apperance of cats, very similar to those described by you. Although there was no direct communication that I recall. I became very freaked out as it was the DOG star I was trying to contact and here I was surrounded by cats!! The next day I had several cat related synchronicities - nothing outrageous, just enough to make me raise an eyebrow. However, It was 2 years later when I read a book in which the author stated that cats come from Sirius. I must admit that I raised both eyebrows at that point! Im pretty certain Id never seen any refernece lionking cats to sirius prior to my experience although im not 100% certain. I wouldnt say this is verification of entity contact, not saying it isnt either!!


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Always Smi2le

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: Adamist]
    #1124091 -

thanks, you guys! im glad to see myself posting, too  :grin: its been quite some time... but i have an energy boost... weeeeeeeeeee! so don't even try to stop me... you might get hurt... im in looooooooove uuuuuuuUUUUU im a believer i couldnt leave her if i tried... well thats off-topic... it just had to be said

Quote:
Does a piece of a whole really have free will or is it just following the direction of the whole? 

i think it has... our will is god's will and his will is obviously our will... every desicion we take contributes to the evolution of this whole creation... of course there are a few limitations, for isntance physical laws like gravity and such... but once we realize our whole potential and our divinity, our free will is even capable to bend or surpass those physical laws...

as for the traffic light thing... it was really late, and there was not a single car at the intersection or anywhere near it... there wasnt a "walk/don't walk" sign either... so basically it was just a red traffic light...

Quote:
I hung up and later said to myself that it must have been me. Now I realize why I said this to myself- We are all fragments of God! LOL! Subconsiously I knew this and that's why I said it, but I said it whithout thinking about what I said. It all makes sense now. I love it when things fit like that!


the holy moment, once again!  :wink: ... i love that feeling, too...


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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: machineelf368]
    #1124109 -

The entity which contacted me, I can only describe as a Praying Mantis. I can only remember its head and arms. The impression I got from our 'communication' was that it was someone I know from another place, almost as if it was a friend or a family member. Bizarre  :crazy:


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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: Jackal]
    #1124124 -

Maybe it was Murex...


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: In(di)go]
    #1124372 -

"actually everything that happens might be the result of a choice that was already made before you... so what we perceive as free will might just be the only possible reaction or only choice we have"

In my opinion everything that happens is a direct result of everything that happened RIGHT before it, which (as usual) brings us back to the big bang.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

Edited by Strumpling (12/09/02 09:23 AM)

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: Adamist]
    #1125394 -

Quote:
Maybe it was Murex...

sounds plausible!  :grin:


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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: Strumpling]
    #1125432 -

Big bang?  huh?  I didn't hear anything.  :confused:

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: Adamist]
    #1125471 -

Well, I am an 8 foot tall mantis who studies humans.  :tongue:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: ]
    #1125492 -

get yourself launched into space, and youll still hear the echoes... it was HUGE man!!!! i can't believe you missed it...  :grin:


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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: In(di)go]
    #1125638 -

Next time I go to space I'll have to check it out.

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: In(di)go] * 1
    #1127054 -

Nice post! Reminds me what little I've read of the 16th century Italian philospher Vico. His books are about the Western equivalent of the I Ching. The Chinese defined 64 'events' several thousand years ago. All things which can possibly happen are just repititions of one or two of those 64 events. You can even find out which of the 64 you're involved in now by tossing some coins or counting some sticks! Vico defined about 100 events upon which everything else is a repitition, but the idea's the same. The I Ching tells us that everything is part of the Dao, which doesn't really do anything, it simply is. It's just The Dao, being The Dao, and it will always be The Dao. So anything that we perceive as happening is merely a slight manifestation of The Dao within a situation. As such, we can take 50 sticks and divide and count them in a certain way. These sticks are part of The Dao, and me counting the sticks is part of The Dao, so the sticks can tell me which of the 64 manifestations of The Dao I am currently in in regards to love, finances, work, etc. I'm not sure if I believe the divination aspect of the I Ching (I've had some amazingly accurate readings, and some amazingly not accurate ones) but I certainly agree with the "it's all just a bit of history repeating" aspect. According to Daoism and the I Ching, we have free will in the sense that we can choose which of the 64 possible events manifests itself, but we don't have freewill in the fact that we can only choose between 64 unfoldings. That may not seem like a lot at first glance, but it really is if you read the descriptions They're vague enough to encompass a whole host of things, yet specific enough to exclude a whole host of things as well (probably why it's so good for divination).
-m


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(the above was deciphered from phi (~1.62) using an advanced alphanumeric conversion algorhythm and should not be perceived as meaningful.)

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Re: epistemology and entity contact [Re: In(di)go]
    #29370206 -

In(di)go said:
nothing, my friend, has any meaning except the meaning you choose to give it...


spiral out, keep going... 


I agree whole heartedly.  Sometimes after I feel it is real because like when dreaming, if you get something astounding that MEANS something to your inner nature..you sorta hold it to be truth no matter how mystical & mysterious, only because the visionary adventure-touched me and held its own weight to a deeper meaning to myself or you.

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