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Offlinemetallica5422
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STB DMT Extraction, Please Help
    #11192240 - 10/06/09 10:23 AM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Okay, so SWIM is having trouble getting any results from their first DMT extraction attempt. SWIM used Noman's tek, and everything appeared to be fine until the freeze precip, after which no crystals were produced. 50g of MHRB was being used since this was a first try and kind of a test run.

750mL distilled water was placed into a gallon mason jar. After this, 50g of standard grade replacement for Red Devil Lye was added to the mixture and shaken until mostly dissolved into the water. The MHRB was purchased from Bouncing Bear Botanicals as dry inner MHRB root bark. This was powdered in a coffee grinder but there were also some clumps of shredded hairs. 50g of this was then added to the mix and shaken thoroughly, then left to sit for an hour and a half. Next, 50mL of VM&P Naptha was poured into the jar. The jar was rolled around for about 2 minutes, and left to settle. Turkey baster was used to place in a half pint mason jar and process was repeated four times, and then jars were placed in a very cold freezer and left for about 20 hours. No crystals have formed, and SWIM feels there MUST be someway to get some of the crystals out?

Does anyone have an idea of what SWIM may have done wrong and how to trouble shoot it? Is it possible to evaporate the naptha that was frozen and then get their crystals that way? Any help/suggestions is greatly appreciated, thanks


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OfflineCosmicLion
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Re: STB DMT Extraction, Please Help [Re: metallica5422]
    #11192290 - 10/06/09 10:39 AM (8 years, 18 days ago)

A common issue is that there is too much naphtha in the solution for the DMT to crash out, even at cool temperatures.

What you want to do is evaporate the naphtha down to half its current amount. The real goal is to evaporate the naphtha down until it is supersaturated. Sometimes the naphtha will turn slightly cloudy when it reaches this point, sometimes not.

After significantly reducing your naphtha pop your solution back into the freezer and wait.

Otherwise the naphtha can be evaporated and the result can be scraped up.

After your evaporation you can recrystallize by dissolving your DMT into warm naphtha. Add 30ml warm naphtha for every gram of DMT powder you have. Mix slowly until all is dissolved.

This supersaturated naphtha solution can be put in the freezer for a pure flaky freeze precipitated DMT powder.

Or you can set your recrystallization supersaturated mix in a dark cabinet untouched for 3-4 days and BIG crystals will actually drop out of the solution.


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Offlinemetallica5422
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Re: STB DMT Extraction, Please Help [Re: CosmicLion]
    #11192478 - 10/06/09 11:25 AM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Thanks very much.

Okay, so would you recommend SWIM evaporate all of it now in a dish and scrape the crystals off or evaporate 50% then freeze it again? Also, does it sound like SWIM did the rest of the procedure right?


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Re: STB DMT Extraction, Please Help [Re: metallica5422]
    #11192550 - 10/06/09 11:42 AM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Did you put the naphtha you pulled in separate jars? It sounds like if you only used 50mL of naphtha with the 50g of MHRB, that it should be saturated enough to pull crystals...but you can definitely evap down the volume of the naphtha and see when it gets cloudy - then throw in the freezer.

If you don't get anything then most likely the spice is still within the MHRB material. I'd suggest you roll/mix again and then allow to completely separate 3 times before pulling the naphtha. The naphtha should still be clear and your crystals should be translucent/white also.

Good Luck - Sending your project good vibes!

ALL LOVE,
DW


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Offlinemetallica5422
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Re: STB DMT Extraction, Please Help [Re: dwpineal]
    #11192582 - 10/06/09 11:52 AM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Yeah, SWIM did 4 pulls with 50mL of Naptha each time, and put them all in separate jars.


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Invisibledwpineal
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Re: STB DMT Extraction, Please Help [Re: metallica5422]
    #11192675 - 10/06/09 12:15 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Then you can either evap each one separately or combine the pulls. I was just asking to help determine the saturation. Your 4th pull will need more evaporation than the first most likely. If it never clouds up, you can fully evap and see what you get. Then recrystallize as needed as CosmicLion so nicely suggested.


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OfflineDr.Myco87
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Re: STB DMT Extraction, Please Help [Re: dwpineal]
    #11192739 - 10/06/09 12:29 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Sounds like you did most everything right, except I like to roll my jars for awhile after I add the naptha, I'll normally roll for like 10 minutes, like 5 times each pull, letting it sit in a warm bath for the last couple pulls. Just evap down to like 1/4 of the original amount of naptha and then toss in the freezer, after that pour off the naptha fast and let the dish sit upside down so the naptha can drain off and not let the deemster go back into the naptha. Good luck, and feel free to ask if something else comes to mind.:thumbup:


--------------------
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Offlinemetallica5422
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Re: STB DMT Extraction, Please Help [Re: Dr.Myco87]
    #11192796 - 10/06/09 12:39 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Alright, thanks very much everyone. :smile:
SWIM is going to combine all of his pulls and evap down until it's cloudy, I'll post on here with results. Thanks!


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: STB DMT Extraction, Please Help [Re: metallica5422]
    #11192930 - 10/06/09 01:02 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Yeah make sure when you add the Naptha that you roll the jars around a lot. And try letting the base solution sit for more than an hour and a half. Atleast 4-6 hours, longer is better I have been told though.

Seems like you are moving to quickly.


--------------------
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OfflineCosmicLion
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Re: STB DMT Extraction, Please Help [Re: metallica5422]
    #11192988 - 10/06/09 01:13 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Good call on combining the pulls. It can sometimes be weird trying to freeze precipitate a small amount of DMT.

Since you only used 50g of MHRB it is good that you mixed all the pulls together; this will make getting a supersaturated solution that is ready for freezing.

Another tip: Use hot solvent.

You can put the naphtha on a water bath until it becomes very hot then use this for your pulls. Hot solvent always pulls more. You may draw more of the yellow oils with hot solvent but these oils are psychoactive and synergize with the pure DMT.

As stated rolling the naphtha for 5-10 minutes per pull will noticeably effect your yield.

It may be worth while for you to heat another 50ml of Naphtha over a water bath then roll it in your jar for 10-15 minuets as your last pull.


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Invisibledwpineal
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Re: STB DMT Extraction, Please Help [Re: CosmicLion]
    #11193040 - 10/06/09 01:23 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

CosmicLion said:
Another tip: Use hot solvent.

You can put the naphtha on a water bath until it becomes very hot then use this for your pulls. Hot solvent always pulls more. You may draw more of the yellow oils with hot solvent but these oils are psychoactive and synergize with the pure DMT.

As stated rolling the naphtha for 5-10 minutes per pull will noticeably effect your yield.






I don't like to use the heated naphtha with STB because I DO get the yellow DMT you're talking about, instead of the translucent. Both are active, I just am particular about pulling white/translucent crystals.

I believe if you let the naphtha sit too long in the base solution, it pulls the yellow oils with the DMT crystals.

Basically what CosmicLion suggested (and I mentioned above) ->

If you don't get crystals (about .3-.5 gr) your mixing time was too short. In my opinion, I think you should take fresh naphtha, measure out 50mL, and add to your base solution. Roll, swirl, or otherwise gently mix (but the layers should no longer be visible). Do this for about 3-5 minutes and allow to separate completely.

Then once separated, repeat the mixing, and allow to separate twice more. As soon as the 3rd mix has separated completely, pull the naphtha.

This whole process should take about 30-60 minutes max.

Take your naphtha and freeze precip. In about an hour or two in the freezer it should be cloudy...

Best of luck!
ALL LOVE,
DW


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Offlinemetallica5422
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Re: STB DMT Extraction, Please Help [Re: dwpineal]
    #11193077 - 10/06/09 01:30 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Okay. So should I try to get the crystals that i can from the pulls i have, then use fresh naptha with the same base solution, or start all over again, allowing for more time to settle and everything.


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Re: STB DMT Extraction, Please Help [Re: metallica5422]
    #11193202 - 10/06/09 01:50 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

metallica5422 said:
750mL distilled water was placed into a gallon mason jar. After this, 50g of standard grade replacement for Red Devil Lye was added to the mixture and shaken until mostly dissolved into the water.




YIKES!!!  OK...lets talk SAFETY first, fuck the lack of results.  You SHOOK a jar of LYE and water????  YOW!!!  Glad you dodged THAT bullet!  NEVER, EVER do that again, please!  Gently and incrementally add powdered lye to water, gently stirring in between.  The heat building up inside could have very easily have broken the glass or caused the top to pop off from the pressure of hot air and chemical reaction leading to very, very serious chemical burns.

OK...issue number 2:  Too much water for that small an amount of bark.  Think of spice as BLUE DYE in the root bark.  If you dissolve a small amount of dye in a large amount of water...you get a pale, pale blue.  The concentration of "dye" in the naptha that can passively move by diffusion, can never exceed the concentration in the water...so, you will get low concentrations that won't freeze precip no matter how cold you make it.

To drive MAX "dye" into the naptha, you need a high concentration in the water, so, more bark and way less water!!!  For 50 G bark you should have used no more than 300cc distilled water.  100% sure that's your problem.

N.B.


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Offlinemetallica5422
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Re: STB DMT Extraction, Please Help [Re: Nature Boy]
    #11193293 - 10/06/09 02:09 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Gee, thanks for the heads up. Guess SWIM got really lucky. OK.

So on SWIMS next extract, 300mL of water instead of the 750mL with the 50g of root bark. Should SWIM still use 50 mL of naptha for each pull and 50g of Lye? Also, should SWIM evaporate before freeze precip or no?


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OfflineDr.Myco87
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Re: STB DMT Extraction, Please Help [Re: metallica5422]
    #11193716 - 10/06/09 03:16 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

I'm sorry NB but I've always used a lot of water, I do 250g in gallon milk jugs and will fill with lye water  and shredded/powdered bark almost to the top, allowing enough room for 150ml's of naptha. I always get at least 1.3% yields, average is 1.5%, and I've gotten as high as 1.9% DMT! I had trouble with using not enough water in the beginning, it's way too sludgy and the dmt can't migrate into the naptha, at least IME. Anyway OP, do what works for you, if you get a good amount of spice this time, then just repeat what you did by increasing all the amounts according to how much bark you use.


--------------------
"I don’t do drugs. I am drugs."                -Salvador Dali

"I’ve never had a problem with drugs. I’ve had problems with the police."                                          -Keith Richards

"Reality is a crutch for people who can’t cope with drugs."                                          -Lily Tomlin



Edited by Dr.Myco87 (10/06/09 03:18 PM)


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Invisibledwpineal
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Re: STB DMT Extraction, Please Help [Re: metallica5422]
    #11195894 - 10/06/09 08:47 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

metallica5422 said:
Okay. So should I try to get the crystals that i can from the pulls i have, then use fresh naptha with the same base solution, or start all over again, allowing for more time to settle and everything.





Might as well try to salvage what you have. No need to go crazy trying every little thing, but also no need to just dump everything and start over. Re-review the suggestions in the thread, read Norman's Tek again, and anything else that may broaden your horizons. Then use your better judgment and see if you can manifest anything. If not, no worries, you tried, and hands-on experience is worth a lot.

If nothing else, you've gained knowledge and can move forward from here. But I'm optimistic, I believe you'll succeed if you try. Remember, safety first :smile:

ALL LOVE,
DW


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Re: STB DMT Extraction, Please Help [Re: dwpineal]
    #11196066 - 10/06/09 09:15 PM (8 years, 18 days ago)

ive always read more water is better than less.15ml per 1g of rootbark,

I used 700ml on 50g of rootbark and had no problem having dmt precipitate out without evaping solvent. And thats in a shitty 3 star freezer compartment in a fridge. Bear in mind that the colder the better. if you can get down to -20 that shits rocken.

I let my basified soltion sit for 3 hoiurs after mixing the rootbark well with the solution. I also shake the shit out of it for a few minutes. It doesnt heat the jar up at all.

The water only heats up too much if you just dump all the lye in there at once. ADD IT SLOWLY, while mixing. the jar will get warm.

Are you sure you lye is 100% sodium hydroxide. If its not then your bassified solution may not be alkaline enough. Thjough you may have had problems with the naptha seperating or emulsions in the naptha not settling out,.

Your naptha mixes wernt done enough times, it should be roll around for a few minutes, leave to let settle and repeat another few times.


Other than that it could just be poor rootbark. yeilds are largely determined by the quality of the root bark.


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: STB DMT Extraction, Please Help [Re: veda_sticks]
    #11198751 - 10/07/09 07:48 AM (8 years, 17 days ago)

My attitude is do what works for you.  I base my methodology on what I understand the basic chemical mechanism to be, and what works for me.

By all means, do what works!  We're all using different starting materials, volumes, etc.  There really can be no direct comparison, and no one's method is wrong...unless it ain't working!  :lol:  To reduce the incidence of that happening, and people calling out repeatedly for assistance, basic guidelines will help.

N.B.


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Re: STB DMT Extraction, Please Help [Re: Nature Boy]
    #11198783 - 10/07/09 08:14 AM (8 years, 17 days ago)

Lye water isn't that dangerous,but yeah don't shake the jar,the danger of the lid coming off and you getting covered in the solution is there.If that happens let everything be,take your clothes off,hop into the tub get lots of water to wash away the solution and put vinegar on the affected areas,lots of vinegar.If you are into making lye solutions you should ALWAYS have vinegar in the house.You shouldn't have a mark on yourself if you do this.Also wear eye-protection.Lye solution takes its time to burn,you can feel it after about 10 min or so and the spot begins to redden a bit.

I actually had this happen to me once,i was rolling a jar and somehow the lid cam off and i spilled it on the floor and on my legs,did the above and was fine,also washed the pants with vinegar and you can't tell anything ever happened.

Good luck and be safe.


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OfflineCosmicLion
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Re: STB DMT Extraction, Please Help [Re: 13.step]
    #11199110 - 10/07/09 10:28 AM (8 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

13.step said:
I actually had this happen to me once,i was rolling a jar and somehow the lid cam off and i spilled it on the floor and on my legs.




What a freakin nightmare :lol:


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