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InvisibleChronic7
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Registered: 05/08/04
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Moments of Surrender
    #11191974 - 10/06/09 08:29 AM (8 years, 14 days ago)

If i look back over my life i can see that everything that i enjoy came to me through moments of surrender, not through a moments of 'trying' or 'hard work' but total letting go & pleading to life/the universe to bring it to me

For example, im in a job i love, but i never went looking for it, i just used to be in jobs i didn't enjoy that much then i surrendered to life to guide me to a job i would enjoy, then it just happend by itself

The same goes for my accomadation, friends, exercise routines, eating healthy & my general environment, all of it came from me surrendering to life, not from me trying to control life, of course i tried to control these things in the past, but they all only actually came to fruition when i eventually surrendered



Im not one to beleive in things like 'law of attraction' books or whatever but i genuinely feel from my own experience that there is something in having an intense burning desire then relasing it to life to be fullfilled...

'Surrender' is a funny word, as universally speaking you only ever surrender to yourself, so surrender is less of a surrender & more of a dissolution of the beleif in having control


:peace:


--------------------
________________________________


Edited by Chronic7 (10/06/09 08:54 AM)


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InvisibleBand of Gypsys
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Re: Moments of Surrender [Re: Chronic7]
    #11191993 - 10/06/09 08:38 AM (8 years, 14 days ago)

You can't fight the universe, surrender is the best option.


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OfflineSmitington
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Re: Moments of Surrender [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11192036 - 10/06/09 08:58 AM (8 years, 14 days ago)

I like what your saying but it's not always true.  Sometimes we have to work hard to make the changes in our world that we want.  If Martin Luther King Jr. surrendered, he wouldn't be nearly as influential as he is today, and equality might not be where it is today.


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InvisibleBand of Gypsys
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Re: Moments of Surrender [Re: Smitington]
    #11192104 - 10/06/09 09:27 AM (8 years, 14 days ago)

That's surrendering to people, not the universe.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Moments of Surrender [Re: Chronic7]
    #11192142 - 10/06/09 09:46 AM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
If i look back over my life i can see that everything that i enjoy came to me through moments of surrender, not through a moments of 'trying' or 'hard work' but total letting go & pleading to life/the universe to bring it to me

For example, im in a job i love, but i never went looking for it, i just used to be in jobs i didn't enjoy that much then i surrendered to life to guide me to a job i would enjoy, then it just happend by itself

The same goes for my accomadation, friends, exercise routines, eating healthy & my general environment, all of it came from me surrendering to life, not from me trying to control life, of course i tried to control these things in the past, but they all only actually came to fruition when i eventually surrendered



Im not one to beleive in things like 'law of attraction' books or whatever but i genuinely feel from my own experience that there is something in having an intense burning desire then relasing it to life to be fullfilled...

'Surrender' is a funny word, as universally speaking you only ever surrender to yourself, so surrender is less of a surrender & more of a dissolution of the beleif in having control


:peace:





Really I think it's more about a balance between effort and surrender

"The secret of the Shaman is he knows when to hold on and when to let go".


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Moments of Surrender [Re: Icelander]
    #11192153 - 10/06/09 09:52 AM (8 years, 14 days ago)

I suppose in a way its like if we dont first make the effort then that momentum wouldn't be there, but then there comes a time when the momentum just takes itself, no more effort...

This is how i see meditation at times, an effort which is only to maintain recognition of that which is already effortless

:peace:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Moments of Surrender [Re: Chronic7]
    #11192164 - 10/06/09 09:55 AM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Surrender is key, because we rarely can let that happen. It's too scary to trust in the process of life. We have invested so much of ourselves in convincing ourselves that we are masters of life.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (10/06/09 09:56 AM)


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Moments of Surrender [Re: Icelander]
    #11192190 - 10/06/09 10:03 AM (8 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Surrender is key, because we rarely can let that happen. It's too scary to trust in the process of life. We have invested so much of ourselves in convincing ourselves that we are masters of life.




Its true & extremely paradoxical, as even saying 'okay i surrender now' is not really surrender, cause we're still waiting for something in return for surrendering

Real surrender expects nothing in return

Its certainly something that unfolds by itself, not something that we can cause or even allow to happen

I feel that its really beyond conceptual, but then we say 'surrender' to convey that great feeling of letting go...

:peace:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Moments of Surrender [Re: Chronic7]
    #11192196 - 10/06/09 10:05 AM (8 years, 14 days ago)

well not for me at least. surrender entails and initial decision.

I could give a simple example but I think you get it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Moments of Surrender [Re: Icelander]
    #11192214 - 10/06/09 10:13 AM (8 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
well not for me at least. surrender entails an initial decision.





it appears so mentally, that at times we have to convince ourselves to surrender
to use concepts to rationalize & see that surrender is the best option...

but its all coming from the centre opening up, its already happening
then we attribute particular concepts to mirror that opening
like 'i surrender' or 'i let go'

but really we are doing nothing, if anything we are being un-done
from the inside out


i keep wanting to say its like a flower opening up 

its all coming from that central point :rose:


:peace:


--------------------
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OfflineDiamondJoe
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Re: Moments of Surrender [Re: Icelander]
    #11192233 - 10/06/09 10:20 AM (8 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

"The secret of the Shaman is he knows when to hold on and when to let go".




Wow! Does this make Kenny Rogers a Shaman?

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name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="
type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Moments of Surrender [Re: Chronic7]
    #11192246 - 10/06/09 10:24 AM (8 years, 13 days ago)

but its all coming from the centre opening up, its already happening
then we attribute particular concepts to mirror that opening
like 'i surrender' or 'i let go'



Yeah I guess you're right.:whoa::hissyfit::hellfire:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSmitington
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Re: Moments of Surrender [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11192324 - 10/06/09 10:48 AM (8 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Band of Gypsys said:
That's surrendering to people, not the universe.




people are the universe


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Moments of Surrender [Re: Smitington]
    #11192337 - 10/06/09 10:50 AM (8 years, 13 days ago)

however small a part


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinelaserpig
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Re: Moments of Surrender [Re: Smitington]
    #11192744 - 10/06/09 12:30 PM (8 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Smitington said:
Quote:

Band of Gypsys said:
That's surrendering to people, not the universe.




people are the universe




His point is that you've got the wrong idea of surrender.
We're not talking about whipping out a white flag and ceasing to assert oneself on the outside world. We're talking about giving up the idea that one can effectively control, motivate, restrict, and correct oneself through planning, anxiety, and thought in a manner which is somehow superior to merely "going where your wind blows you" -- ie, following what paths appear to you & what motivations crop up of themselves.


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Weedmaster P knows the truth.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Moments of Surrender [Re: laserpig]
    #11192749 - 10/06/09 12:31 PM (8 years, 13 days ago)

well put


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSmitington
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Re: Moments of Surrender [Re: Icelander]
    #11192861 - 10/06/09 12:52 PM (8 years, 13 days ago)

So basically what you are saying is be yourself?


--------------------


Edited by Smitington (10/06/09 12:54 PM)


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Offlinelaserpig
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Re: Moments of Surrender [Re: Smitington]
    #11192896 - 10/06/09 12:56 PM (8 years, 13 days ago)

Arguably yes, that's what we're saying, but putting it like that sounds so vague as to be almost meaningless.

Then again, if that's the label which helps you grok the concept, then ... fuck it, run with it.
It's all just notation anyway.


--------------------
Weedmaster P knows the truth.


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OfflineSmitington
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Re: Moments of Surrender [Re: laserpig]
    #11192919 - 10/06/09 01:00 PM (8 years, 13 days ago)

the whole thing is essentially meaningless.  Sure, we start going down the path where we aren't being natural to ourselves or whatever, then we realize this and let it go, and feel better.  I guess the biggest thing to get out of this is try to remember to be yourself and all that


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Offlinelaserpig
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Re: Moments of Surrender [Re: Smitington]
    #11192957 - 10/06/09 01:06 PM (8 years, 13 days ago)

The whole concept of surrender to one's self and environment is meaningless?
I beg differ.

Many many people get themselves and others in a world of hurt because they try to control their own desires & etc.
We're essentially talking about a "cure" for that problem.
I don't see why you would say that a solution to a large-scale & high-magnitude problem is not meaningful.


--------------------
Weedmaster P knows the truth.


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