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Offlineyevonite
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LSD speculation
    #11190641 - 10/06/09 12:07 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Hello all. I am an experienced drug user. I know what it is to be psychologically addicted to a drug. I have only been addicted to one drug in my life and that was marijuana. Now I use everything in moderation and avoid impulsive behavior - I can tell when I start to get addicted. I am a college student and consider myself above average intelligence.
Just thought I'd give you a brief intro. Now here is what I really want to discuss:

LSD.

I am not too experienced with the drug, having taken it 7 or 8 times.
Most of these times were spread out, and I have noticed no undesireable after effects, even when once taking LSD two days in a row (except for the huge increase in tolerance). There was one occasion where I took LSD that made me feel overly hot and I felt extremely burnt out on the come down, but my suspicions are that this LSD was not pure. I never held it up to a black light to check.

I am not here to discuss what can be read online (erowid, wikipedia, or other reliable sources) or what is already common knowledge. Rather, I'd like to discuss the uncertainties about the drug.
I know people who have taken the drug numerous times abusively, treating it like as an everyday thing such as marijuana (my opinion is, if your life begins to revolve around a particular experience then it is an abusive experience. Not to say LSD isn't always a new experience, every experience is unique, but I believe, as with any drug, there can come a point where you just are not learning anything from it and only taking it for pure recreation. And everyday recreation of a drug is abusive in my eyes).

One of my best friends suffered the ONSET of a psychosis from taking the drug. I capitalize ONSET because my suspicions are, that when LSD is taken within REASON it plays no part in causing insanity(reason being a dose that you are experienced enough to handle and being in a state of mind prepared for the LSD. I think to be best prepared for LSD you should go in with an open-mind, as in having no expectations, and to be void of any inner struggles such as depression and other mental disorders, or even being in a bad mood. To take LSD in these conditions is foolish and irresponsible).
These however, are just my suspicions, not fact. But I've never seen evidence of someone in their right mind going permanently or temporarily insane after the LSD trip has worn off. I do think it is much more common to go temporarily insane during a trip, especially a bad one.

This friend of mine had a very severe psychosis. He turned into one of the homeless and obviously crazy dudes, not saying all homeless people are crazy. He had taken LSD twice in a week, and after the second trip, which I was there for and tripped as well, things went sour. At the time he was in bad conditions already and probably under a lot of stress as he had moved out of his parents house and was living on the land. He was very impulsive and tended to make things into something they weren't, even marijuana. We dosed the LSD I think around 11 at night, so we didn't get very much sleep. I suspect he hadn't been getting good sleep prior to that. And sleep, is very very important as most of us know. Lack sleep makes one delirious. And more lack of sleep makes one even more delirious - not getting sleep will drive someone insane in itself. Anyhow, for the next week he drifted into a deep psychosis.
The end result was my friend who thought he was a god. He was obviously nuts. He walked incredibly slowly, breathed even slower, and thought things were vanishing off the face of the planet.
Fortunately, after months in the hospital and with the help and anti-psychotics, my friend made a full recovery, and his tripped since with no severe problems resulting.

So psychosis caused directly by LSD, I suspect, is non-existent. Feel free to prove me wrong. But remember I am a firm believer that LSD will destroy your mind (mind, not brain) if taken irresponsibly.

A bigger concern I have is its effects on the brain and other physiological effects. These seem to be a greater mystery. Setting aside the possibility of LSD being contaminated with other chemicals, LSD in itself is supposedly entirely non-toxic. I believe, but again feel free to prove me wrong, that this is fact (wikipedia?).
But non-toxic doesn't really speak much to me...does LSD cause any damage to neuro-transmitters or anything else of the brain and body? I mean, something doesn't necessarily have to be toxic to cause damage.

Just the other day I was at a music festival and an older gentleman came up to me to engage in conversation. I estimate he was in his fifties. I am at the ripe age of twenty. He began speaking to me and said something along the lines of "Back in the 80's, we all had a good time tripping on acid." I don't know why he brought this up, but it made me laugh, as I had just tripped two days before at the exact music festival. He seemed like a pretty good guy, but he definitely seemed to fit the "fried" stereotype. His speech was strangely pieced together, and though entirely coherent, he did seem to be fried and not all there. This, perhaps irrationally, made me worry of what the long term effects of taking LSD would be in years to come.

Now, there are of course many unknowns about that encounter. For all I know, the drug could have had no effect on his brain and he was just being himself as he was at that particular moment. And he could have taken many other drugs in his youth that are actually known to cause brain damage. Or he just could have been not all that intelligent. Or the way he acted could have psychological and not physiological at all. I don't know. I'm not sure.

That's where I would really like some of your input. If you could state your age and estimated number of LSD uses, as well as your honest interpretation of what LSD has done long-term to you, it would be greatly appreciated and probably useful to many of us. This isn't supposed to be super scientific or anything, but somewhat statistical from a pool of people who have probably tripped more than the average person. Also, include the frequency of use, if you could.

I think I mentioned earlier, that after my seven or eight uses, I have noticed no decrease in brain function. I know people who have tripped many times, but I hadn't known them before they started tripping; I haven't known anyone over a long period of time who trips (more than 2 years).

A side note...I could have this same conversation with MDMA, but the obvious problem is the common contamination of MDMA pills. I suspect it is neuro-toxic, but just how neuro-toxic, I have know clue. I suspect it is relatively harmless when it is pure.

Anyway, to those of you who have read this in its entirety I thank you. All intelligent input is encouraged and welcome. LSD is a very powerful drug, and we far from understand what exactly it is doing to us. The beauty and magnificence of it lies its sensory expanding properties. I'd like to see some of our modern physicists trip on this stuff - I myself have had several factual epiphanies regarding physical reality whilst tripping acid, I could only imagine what an ingenious physicist might conjur up on an acid trip.

And so it goes yall. Thanks.


--------------------
"I think upon the ponder while I'm pondering the thought"


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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: LSD speculation [Re: yevonite]
    #11190696 - 10/06/09 12:17 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I started back in the 80's and I don't act "fried"
  As a matter of fact my drummer had these 2 younger dudes coming over to play some music and he said  "yeah these guys are like stereotypical burnouts and not like us" lol
  They probably never even tripped
  I have smoked plenty of weed and tripped hundreds of times but I don't act fried at all.

  So there's other factors that make people act like that.  If anything tripping makes my mind sharp as a razor.

  Look at Terrence Mckenna... that dude was a fountain of knowledge and could talk for hours and hours about psychedelics.  And everything he talks about is totally fascinating.


Edited by cpw1971 (10/06/09 12:19 AM)


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OfflineOutThisLife
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Re: LSD speculation [Re: cpw1971]
    #11190760 - 10/06/09 12:28 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah. I'm not old enough to really post here, but I've done quite a fair share of drugs; my physical and mental performances are equal to or greater than before I did any drugs.


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Offlinegonzebo
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Re: LSD speculation [Re: OutThisLife]
    #11190878 - 10/06/09 12:48 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_effects1.shtml

i know you don't wanna talk about stuff that is on erowid and is "common knowledge" but the way you wrote the part about the onset of psychosis of your friend, it doesn't seem as if this is "common knowledge".

especially the part that states:

"Some users of LSD experience what is clinically  referred to as LSD psychosis, schizophrenic-like disorders that  seem to be  triggered by  using the  drug.  However, in  careful analysis of LSD  psychosis patients, it  appears that  those who have  strong  family  histories of  major  psychosis  or psychopathology are more  vulnerable than those  who do  not (Tsuang et al., 1982).  Vardy et al. (1983) reported similar findings, as well as that LSD psychotics have  significantly higher rates of parental alcoholism than control groups.  In a survey of  five-thousand individuals  who had  used LSD  a total of twenty-five-thousand times, Cohen (1960) found  1.8 psychotic episodes  per thousand  ingestions, 1.2  attempted suicides, and 0.4 completed  suicides -- figures  consistent with the those of the general population. "

What this translates to is that, as research has so far supported, LSD can't cause it in any individual because of irresponsibility of use and such. Rather, LSD has the ability to bring out a latent psychological disorder that the person is predisposed to due to, say, family history of psychological illness or history of alcoholic parents.


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Offlineyevonite
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Re: LSD speculation [Re: gonzebo]
    #11190954 - 10/06/09 01:02 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

gonzebo said:

What this translates to is that, as research has so far supported, LSD can't cause it in any individual because of irresponsibility of use and such. Rather, LSD has the ability to bring out a latent psychological disorder that the person is predisposed to due to, say, family history of psychological illness or history of alcoholic parents.




Yes, I have read this before, but let me make my disagreement.
By my definition of irresponsibility of use, especially using while in a bad state of mind or while not having enough sleep, and in combination with taking a very high dose, I believe lasting problems can manifest. Maybe not full blown psychosis immediately. Psychosis would be the worst case scenario (other than death which is VERY VERY unlikely of course) and I should have mentioned that.
Anyhow, a bad trip, taken on these conditions and in taken in a very high dose, can lead to a very intense and very bad experience that I believe can "scar" someone. I have had very enlightening and powerful experiences that changed my thought process even after the trip wore off. So have many others. Now a very intense 5 hour or more "bad trip" could negatively effect ones mental well being after and possibly psychosis. I mean, especially if one is sleep deprived, in a bad mood, and takes a ridiculous dose, then I think the possibility is there.

And speaking of "latent" psychological disorders: disorders manifest all the time, throughout any point of a human life. Not all are latent, some happen due to a course of events in ones life and little by little a disorder develops. Like I said, I still think LSD could only act a trigger, not a direct cause, but irresponsibility I think can up that risk.
I have suffered a depression lasting for several months, which manifested at the time of a bad trip on mushrooms. I had a bad mindset going in.

Again, I'm more concerned with brain damage caused by the drug. How would irresponsible use, or even regular use, effect that?


--------------------
"I think upon the ponder while I'm pondering the thought"


Edited by yevonite (10/06/09 01:04 AM)


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Invisiblemadpsilo

Registered: 06/29/09
Posts: 88
Re: LSD speculation [Re: yevonite]
    #11191249 - 10/06/09 02:24 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Take a look at Syd Barrett (lost genuis of Pink Floyd). Syd had certain issues even before his so-called friends tried to turn his cerebral cortex into lysergic oatmeal but I speculate it brought out his schitzophrenia much earlier and made it worse. Barrett's crazy Swinging London apartment complex is described as being filled with acidheads who were constantly dosing each other. The author/sources claim that Barrett -- both knowingly and unknowingly -- was basically tripping the entire time that he lived there; they said that even if you tried to take a break from the acid, you'd get dosed the first time you had tea at someone else's apartment.Per the author, one of Barrett's biggest problems with this was that he never knew whether he was tripping (whether someone had slipped some LSD in his drink) or whether he was just going crazy or whether he had dosed himself and forgotten about it. Schaffner, IIRC, hypothesizes that living in such a fractured state of mind for so long (a year or two) was the primary cause of Barrett's schizophrenia.  His friend Duggie Fields claimed he and his girlfriend were dosed out for 2 months with out even knowing it. How that's possible I don't understand but I think the acid that was being made then was way purer than todays. Anyway, I have taken LSD once every 5 days to 2 weeks for about three years and although I think my vision has changed, I don't see myself as more mentally unstable as a result of my experiences. I definately feel my personality has changed but in a good way. LSD can be a tool for an enlightment a long a guided path but should never become the path itself.


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OfflineLucas89
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Re: LSD speculation [Re: madpsilo]
    #11191430 - 10/06/09 03:24 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

funny shit. im not surprised to hear this. i do recall someone telling me that he was dosed constantly for a year or so.

where the fuck did he get vast amounts of acid from? lol, shine on...


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Invisiblemadpsilo

Registered: 06/29/09
Posts: 88
Re: LSD speculation [Re: Lucas89]
    #11191597 - 10/06/09 04:34 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, no kidding. What a tolerance. Probably a vial a day.


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OfflineLucas89
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Re: LSD speculation [Re: madpsilo]
    #11191681 - 10/06/09 05:06 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

no shit, your probably right. syd wouldve been on mg's a day.

very sad though too i guess...


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Offlineyevonite
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Re: LSD speculation [Re: madpsilo]
    #11193407 - 10/06/09 02:27 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

madpsilo said:
Take a look at Syd Barrett (lost genuis of Pink Floyd). Syd had certain issues even before his so-called friends tried to turn his cerebral cortex into lysergic oatmeal but I speculate it brought out his schitzophrenia much earlier and made it worse. Barrett's crazy Swinging London apartment complex is described as being filled with acidheads who were constantly dosing each other. The author/sources claim that Barrett -- both knowingly and unknowingly -- was basically tripping the entire time that he lived there; they said that even if you tried to take a break from the acid, you'd get dosed the first time you had tea at someone else's apartment.Per the author, one of Barrett's biggest problems with this was that he never knew whether he was tripping (whether someone had slipped some LSD in his drink) or whether he was just going crazy or whether he had dosed himself and forgotten about it. Schaffner, IIRC, hypothesizes that living in such a fractured state of mind for so long (a year or two) was the primary cause of Barrett's schizophrenia.  His friend Duggie Fields claimed he and his girlfriend were dosed out for 2 months with out even knowing it. How that's possible I don't understand but I think the acid that was being made then was way purer than todays. Anyway, I have taken LSD once every 5 days to 2 weeks for about three years and although I think my vision has changed, I don't see myself as more mentally unstable as a result of my experiences. I definately feel my personality has changed but in a good way. LSD can be a tool for an enlightment a long a guided path but should never become the path itself.




The story of Syd Barrett is a very intriguing one. Very interesting yet melancholy. I think it would be quite scary to for a couple months not even know if you were tripping or not. It must have been a lot of acid to fight that tolerance as well.

Oh and hey. When you say your vision has changed, in what ways? Because mine has to. I think mine changes everytime I take acid. But I feel like my vision gets sharper. The main difference I have is the way trees and other plants look to me. Trees and leaves look appear sharper, like my resolution has increased. But I also see more geometry in nature.


--------------------
"I think upon the ponder while I'm pondering the thought"


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Offlinedummy
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Re: LSD speculation [Re: yevonite]
    #11193445 - 10/06/09 02:33 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

i have an overlay of static over everything. but it doesn't bother me. forests look more alive. sometimes things will jumps from the corners of my eyes. nothing major, but then again i've never had more than 3 hits.


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People never seem to know what they least suspect is coming next.


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Invisiblemadpsilo

Registered: 06/29/09
Posts: 88
Re: LSD speculation [Re: dummy]
    #11202117 - 10/07/09 07:27 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I think I have permanent trails. They seem to intensify at night. That's about it.


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OfflineShroomzoom622
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Re: LSD speculation [Re: OutThisLife]
    #11206022 - 10/08/09 08:19 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OutThisLife said:
Yeah. I'm not old enough to really post here, but I've done quite a fair share of drugs; my physical and mental performances are equal to or greater than before I did any drugs.




Dude...your increased physical and mental performances are clearly due to you growing up....not drugs...that would be very sad if you were not as strong or smart as your thirteen year old self.


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