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InvisibleHerbBaker
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Bluing Galerina? Nope, Psilocybe caerulipes.
    #11187637 - 10/05/09 03:15 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)







Edited by HerbBaker (10/06/09 01:17 PM)

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Offlinethelaughingman
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11187679 - 10/05/09 03:22 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Did you print any of them?

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OfflineTwiztidsage
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: thelaughingman]
    #11187689 - 10/05/09 03:24 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Is it blue or just dark? It is kind of hard for me to tell....

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11187710 - 10/05/09 03:28 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Hmmmmmmm interesting :strokebeard:

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Offlinethelaughingman
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: Twiztidsage]
    #11187746 - 10/05/09 03:32 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Thats what i was thinkin. If it is blue, maybe its not galerina but a new variety of psilocybe :grin:


Or just some weird galerinas.

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Offlinesprout70
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: World Spirit]
    #11187790 - 10/05/09 03:38 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

World Spirit said:
Hmmmmmmm interesting :strokebeard:




crazy, does it smell like some sort of psilocybe or different altogether?


--------------------
Ain't talkin', just walkin'Through the world mysterious and vague
Heart burnin', still yearnin' Walkin' through the cities of the plague. Well, the whole world is filled with speculation
The whole wide world which people say is round They will tear your mind away from contemplation They will jump on your misfortune when you're down Ain't talkin', just walkin'
Eatin' hog eyed grease in a hog eyed town. Heart burnin', still yearnin' Some day you'll be glad to have me around. B.Dylan

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Invisiblenorthgahunt
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: World Spirit]
    #11187793 - 10/05/09 03:38 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Wow, great looking pics. Could these be Galerina steglichii? If so, wouldn't these be rare and contain Psilocybin? These would be the bluest staining I seen in any pics.

DannyGlick may know more about these.

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Invisiblemycoelf
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: thelaughingman]
    #11187860 - 10/05/09 03:48 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Galerina autumintallis no doubt, The pic with the blueish cap looks like lower fungi contam for sure, the pic 2nd to last with the "blue stem looks like spores landed, gallerina having rusty brown for without doubt. There is a test for indole alkaloids in the field guide (Audubon),

Take a print and don't be confused by the browning reaction in gallerina, many people have died thinking that they found active mushrooms later to find out in a bad way.

Psilocybe blue is bright blue, like electric blue on white flesh ranging to a really dark blue in high potency species. (Azurecens) There is also a distinct SMELL to psilocin containing species, I believe this is common in cubies, but there is also a common scent note with other high potency, that makes me think that psilocin has a scent.

Bottom line do not eat, take a print, do some taxonomy.

Peace

Mycoelf:mushroom2:


--------------------
Mycoelf

Sterility is a process that can be likened unto infinity, which is a long walk, the closer to the end you start before beginning, the more achievable  the goal of infinity becomes.  Remember, cleanliness in next to goddessness

:aliendance::aliendance::wicca::aliendance::aliendance::pipesmoke:

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Invisiblenorthgahunt
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: mycoelf]
    #11187947 - 10/05/09 04:00 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mycoelf said:
Galerina autumintallis no doubt, The pic with the blueish cap looks like lower fungi contam for sure, the pic 2nd to last with the "blue stem looks like spores landed, gallerina having rusty brown for without doubt. There is a test for indole alkaloids in the field guide (Audubon),

Take a print and don't be confused by the browning reaction in gallerina, many people have died thinking that they found active mushrooms later to find out in a bad way.

Psilocybe blue is bright blue, like electric blue on white flesh ranging to a really dark blue in high potency species. (Azurecens) There is also a distinct SMELL to psilocin containing species, I believe this is common in cubies, but there is also a common scent note with other high potency, that makes me think that psilocin has a scent.

Bottom line do not eat, take a print, do some taxonomy.

Peace

Mycoelf:mushroom2:




I have had weilii bruise pretty close to this same color. Maybe warriorsoul will post a print. Is Galerina autumintallis known to bruise this color?

Pic of the weilii I picked a couple days ago for color comparison. Blue doesn't show as well in pic.


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11188682 - 10/05/09 05:29 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

That looks to be Galerina steglichii to me and the bluing not from mold growth.  Very close to this German collection.

http://mushroomobserver.org/22405?_js=on&_new=true&id=22405


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Offlinethetonebone72
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: Workman]
    #11189021 - 10/05/09 06:22 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Wow! Kinda scary how the bruising mimics psilocybe on the stem and perfectly along the margin...

That's definitely a noob killer.  :murder:


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Hunt On, Good Fellow


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Invisiblelqdtrance
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: thetonebone72]
    #11189069 - 10/05/09 06:26 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

cool finds man!!


--------------------
Pandha Piranha.

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InvisibleinskiM
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: thetonebone72]
    #11189070 - 10/05/09 06:27 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

It is actually psilocybin bruising, I'm not sure what other toxins are present though!
inski..


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: inski]
    #11189080 - 10/05/09 06:27 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I'd like to read the literature you've just referenced.

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InvisibleinskiM
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: World Spirit]
    #11189112 - 10/05/09 06:32 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I read it here among many other places.
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Galerina

There is a published paper on the chemical analysis of this species also.
Gartz, J. 1995. Cultivation and analysis of Psilocybe species and an investigation of Galerina steglichii. Annali dei Musei Civici--Roverto vol. 10:297-306. Dated 10/1994.
inski.


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Edited by inski (10/05/09 06:36 PM)

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: inski]
    #11189150 - 10/05/09 06:38 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I learned something new today. Thanks.

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InvisibleinskiM
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: World Spirit]
    #11189160 - 10/05/09 06:40 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Your welcome, it is understandable when you learn that the two genera, Psilocybe and Galerina are sister clades.
inski.


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Edited by inski (10/05/09 06:43 PM)

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Invisiblenorthgahunt
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: Workman]
    #11189410 - 10/05/09 07:16 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Workman said:
That looks to be Galerina steglichii to me and the bluing not from mold growth.  Very close to this German collection.

http://mushroomobserver.org/22405?_js=on&_new=true&id=22405





Any idea where these were found and if Galerina steglichii are known to grow there. If it turns out to be Galerina steglichii, this will be an incredible find. I certainly hope warriorsoul gets a positive id.

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OfflineMagick
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: northgahunt]
    #11189766 - 10/05/09 08:13 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

It does not surprise me much that there are species of galerina with psilocybin. Look at the structure of both psilocin/psilocybin and the amatoxins. They both have indole at their center! This is because both groups of compounds are created from the enzymatic metabolism of tryptophan.

I think that the only difference between galerinas and psilocybes are a few key-enzymes which have evolved from a couple decades/centuries of evolution. Likewise it would not surprise me to learn that amanitas are also, on a genetic level, similar to galerinas and psilocybes. My theory is that amanitas probably came first and throughout evolution the galerinas and other smaller mushrooms (which still contain the same enzymes required to make amatoxins) began evolving. Perhaps the psilocybes actually evolved from galerina sp. or the like, and just don't use those particular enzymes anymore.

However it could've gone the other way around too, wherein amanitas/galerinas evolved from psilocybes as protection from predators (like ourselves =p) The reason I think it's the other way around though is because amatoxins actually have the majority of the tryptophan structure intact - differing only by having an amide group (with a good number of substituents) rather than a carboxylic acid group.

But that's only a theory :smile: Hm, I'd like to find others who may know more about the genetics of mushrooms who have input on this idea.

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InvisibleDannyGlick

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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: northgahunt]
    #11190036 - 10/05/09 08:50 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

northgahunt said:
DannyGlick may know more about these.




No I don't, but I think I agree that they could be Galerina steglichii.

I'm a little jealous of Herb right now. Cool finds soul.

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Offlinejet li
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11190170 - 10/05/09 09:04 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

cool find.  I've seen Galerina marginata bruise black, but never blue like those.  very interesting.

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Invisiblelqdtrance
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: DannyGlick]
    #11190193 - 10/05/09 09:06 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Good info inski


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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11190265 - 10/05/09 09:14 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

The second picture looks like a Psilocybe, is it a different mushroom?

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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: falcon]
    #11190302 - 10/05/09 09:19 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah I was pondering that too. Think maybe he's pulling our legs or what? :waits:

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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: DannyGlick]
    #11190463 - 10/05/09 09:41 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Not sure, there aren't any rhizos, and I'd expect them, but the color of the gills sure look like Psilocybe, and I'm feeling some tugging.

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InvisibleinskiM
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: falcon]
    #11190474 - 10/05/09 09:43 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I think they are all the same species but the colour is off due to an incorrect white balance!
inski..


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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: inski]
    #11190526 - 10/05/09 09:49 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, that might be it.

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Offlinejet li
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: inski]
    #11190735 - 10/05/09 10:24 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, I think you are right, inski.  However, that had also crossed my mind.

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InvisibleHerbBaker
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: jet li]
    #11192120 - 10/06/09 07:34 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Print seems to match Psilocybe..:cool:


Perhaps P. caerulipes, but its never been found on man made mulch.










Edited by HerbBaker (10/06/09 07:59 AM)

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11192195 - 10/06/09 08:04 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Hmmmmmmmmmmm  :popcorn:

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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11192384 - 10/06/09 09:01 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Ah well...... So much for wishful thinking :wink:  It is still a good find.  What kind of temperatures are these fruiting in?


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: Workman]
    #11192735 - 10/06/09 10:28 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Average temperatures for the area right now are in the low 40's at night to the mid 60's during the day.  The last photo is interesting.  The mulch appears to be pine added more than one year.  The needles indicate it might have been White Pine, Pinus strobus, the largest tree in Eastern North America which sometimes reaches 230 ft. in height.  The acorn is probably Black Oak, Quercus velutina.  Also the other leaves are interesting.  I take it this is a very beautiful area.

This probably isn't a residential area.  It looks very "park-like."  The chips were created with a commercial shredder, not the kind most people have at home.

The mushrooms certainly isn't Psilocybe caerulipes unless its morphology has wider definitions than previously known.  It isn't a Galerina though.  We know that.  I'm not a Psilocybe expert though.  What section would you place it in?

For the moment I am thinking it might be a new species of active mushroom.


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Offlineehtdaedlufetarg
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #11192805 - 10/06/09 10:40 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

#2 in the second set of
Photos Looks a lot like P. Caerulipes. Ive seen that black "eye" in the center of caps like that.


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: ehtdaedlufetarg]
    #11192867 - 10/06/09 10:52 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, the photo in Audubon and PMOTW both show that on dry mushrooms.  These, which are wet, are not striate.  P. caerulipes is when it's wet.


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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #11193035 - 10/06/09 11:22 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Its hard to know what section without microscopy, but it is temperate and nonannulate.  Probably something in the Cyanescens/Semilanceatae.  Its not something I immediately recognize, but I think there is still a chance it is P. caerulipes.  I am just starting to get an idea of the variability of that species or species complex.  But it easily could be an unrecognized species.

I am now wondering if the Michigan collection is actually something different now that I have looked at a few other eastern samples.

Psilocybe caerulipes collections


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Invisiblelqdtrance
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: Workman]
    #11193429 - 10/06/09 12:31 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Very interesting. I will be keeping an eye on this thread for sure.
Once again, Nice finds :thumbup:


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: Workman]
    #11193531 - 10/06/09 12:45 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Workman said:
  I am just starting to get an idea of the variability of that species or species complex.  But it easily could be an unrecognized species.

I am now wondering if the Michigan collection is actually something different now that I have looked at a few other eastern samples.

Psilocybe caerulipes collections




I don't think the Michigan collection is P. caerulipes, but I have no idea what it is.

Like you, I recognize this species definitely needs more work.  It is unlikely, but still possible, that this could be another morphological form.  I hope I don't assume too much but it would be nice to see your work-up on this one.  If it is P. caerulipes they are very variable in form.

I consider the Maine collection to be very different from the PA collection.


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Invisiblevjp
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #11193624 - 10/06/09 01:03 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

really cool find.

What size are the caps?

i looked at the michigan collection pics and have never seen any variation of ps. caerulipes that looked like that. Even some of the new york finds look different then the ones i find.

mr.mushrooms can you link the PA finds?

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InvisibleHerbBaker
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #11193649 - 10/06/09 01:06 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Heres some more Blue-Foot pics.

There are hundreds of them.:grin:








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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: vjp]
    #11197345 - 10/06/09 10:26 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Here's the link.  All of my photos were deleted after I learned that others could copy them without my permission.  The only person I have given full permission to use my photos of this species was warriorsoul.


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11197389 - 10/06/09 10:31 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I definitely recognize these.  They look very similar to the ones I found.  We learned at least two things:

1.  This mushroom has a wider scope of morphology than previously thought.
2.  This mushroom can grow in mulch.  :strokebeard:



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InvisibleHerbBaker
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #11206040 - 10/08/09 06:26 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Take a close look. :cheers:






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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11210504 - 10/08/09 08:00 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Sweet.  :thumbup:  Your contributions to the macromorphology of this species is appreciated.


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OfflineDishez
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #11215587 - 10/09/09 01:45 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I've found caerulipes that have the same morphological qualities  as each of those on workmans page, all within a few hundred feet of one another. My impression is that humidity and temperature play a major role in the features of individual fruitings of this species. Its cool that there have been so many findings this year...id like to add to the list of things we've learned about them...it seems as though their growing season is wider than previously speculated...I've found even amounts of them from July until the last time i went to my spot, which was less than two weeks ago.

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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #11217375 - 10/09/09 07:44 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms said:
Average temperatures for the area right now are in the low 40's at night to the mid 60's during the day.  The last photo is interesting.  The mulch appears to be pine added more than one year.  The needles indicate it might have been White Pine, Pinus strobus, the largest tree in Eastern North America which sometimes reaches 230 ft. in height.  The acorn is probably Black Oak, Quercus velutina.  Also the other leaves are interesting.  I take it this is a very beautiful area.

This probably isn't a residential area.  It looks very "park-like."  The chips were created with a commercial shredder, not the kind most people have at home.




Gotta say, that is some forensics.

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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #11217449 - 10/09/09 08:00 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

nice  find  . :yesnod::grin:


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cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa  al lado se puede sentir  que valio  la pena  haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se  convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo

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InvisiblesporeRider
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: cactu]
    #11218148 - 10/09/09 10:28 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Gotta love these unique finds!!:super:
Thankx for all the input:sun:


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http://

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InvisibleHerbBaker
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: sporeRider]
    #11239841 - 10/13/09 02:24 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

When i hit the BLAST Sequence it comes up with Stropharia rugosoannulata as a close match..hmm, that seems odd.
Does anyone know how to decipher this stuff?
Oddly enough, these blue-footers are growing in my wine-cap patch..:boxerface:

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Bluing Galerina? Nope, Psilocybe caerulipes. [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11265188 - 10/17/09 11:44 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Spores 1000x, 8.7 micron divisions


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Bluing Galerina? Nope, Psilocybe caerulipes. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #11282458 - 10/20/09 07:05 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Yep, that'd be them.


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11282471 - 10/20/09 07:10 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

warriorsoul said:

Oddly enough, these blue-footers are growing in my wine-cap patch..:boxerface:




I've come to believe wine caps are a weed mushroom if they get ahold of an area.  Very aggressive, eats lots of substrate and produces few mushrooms.  They can get gigantic though.



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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11298954 - 10/22/09 11:32 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

warriorsoul said:
When i hit the BLAST Sequence it comes up with Stropharia rugosoannulata as a close match..hmm, that seems odd.
Does anyone know how to decipher this stuff?





How to use BLAST to compare mushroom DNA


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Bluing Galerina ? [Re: HerbBaker]
    #11299165 - 10/22/09 12:19 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

When i hit the BLAST Sequence it comes up with Stropharia rugosoannulata as a close match..hmm, that seems odd.
Does anyone know how to decipher this stuff?





That is exactly what it shows.  Makes me question the P. caerulipes sample they had, its likely that a small Stropharia was deposited in the herbarium as P. caerulipes. 

None of the other Psilocybes that I have run through blast showed that all the close matches were in another genus.

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