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OfflineMitchnast
Trial by Madness
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Registered: 10/28/99
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The devil in the details
    #11187495 - 10/05/09 04:48 PM (8 years, 19 days ago)

Many people feel that the christian faith is based upon allegory for the purpose of coaching civilization into order.
I do not believe it is so intelligently designed, I think perhaps rather, all the talk of temptation and demonic voices versus a pure holy foundation of faith are in fact, intended to be literal.

I'm not saying this makes anything true, but bear with me, I want to say how I think it is reflective of humanities dirty secrets.  The instinctual trend towards delusion and disorder, and the need to justify these phenomena as normal by dressing them up to make them fantastic.

We have, in our modern world, created systems to determine and disposition ways of thinking that strike far out from what can be considered socially functional.
This is reasonable and nessisary.  Completely separate, is an almost paralelle system along lines of faith.  In these long-established systems, people deal with compulsions and delusions by giving them supernatural names and sources.  They then associate with people who also suffer these "temptations" and look to a common image of salvation like some sort of warden to stave off influence from the hypothetical door of their mind.

This, to me is the very essence of a shared delusion, BUT I'm not saying it's wrong.

Delusion is a dirty word, it doesn't represent a dirty thing.  It only differs from immagination by the addition of conviction, such as the conviction that "deluded" people are flawed and we ought to worry about becomming them, or failing that (as we surely will)
becomming recognized as one of them.

Look at how many people adhere to religeon.  You work with them, you hang out with them, and many of them keep their faith to themselves, they go to church regularly and "get it" but you still associate with them on a common level.  They are hiding a quality that they share with their fellows of common faith, but withold from others.  This is fine.

Those who proselytize most zelously outside of their faith become seen as fanatics and crazies, just as those non-religous types who tell you about the "voices" and trail off into catatonia while queuing at the fast-food stand are simmilarly seen as "coo coo".

People involved in a faith-based society keep the "voices" to themselves.  But they hear them, the voice of the devil, speaking in music, showing the way, whispering from behind the wind, striking a chord in sympathy with some burried desire for something magical.
The compusion to daydream and create your own ideal beyond that which God has provided, finding yourself lost in sin.  How is this not JUST like a delusion?  Do you have to hear a disembodied voice to be considered past the threshold of insanity?

I see things when I let myself, And I think most, if not all, people can. Or in fact do in spite of it all, in secret, like a shame.

I have looked at seemingly randomly placed items and have seen elaborate alternates of space and arrangement to describe whatever quandry my mind was asking, perhaps influenced by the conversation, or background music.  I have heard messages in seemingly nonsensical music that not only become clear and eloquent, but disturbingly compelling.  I have seen them all come together to create a shocking reality of possibility, a chance to walk into another world where nothing matters.  And then, I can understand, why people cry out for someone to save them.  I look to how many people, rationally decided to seek salvation, and I reason that humanity is forever tied to this.  Nothing wrong with it, works for them.

Dispite the fact that most bible passages sound like poems and make little sense if not broken down to induvidual points of allegory,  Modern christians speak quite candidly of elements of faith to the fellow faithful as though hearing the voice of the devil is an absolute, and not merely an exaggerated metaphor for some guilty yerning.

I think that people secretly hear the voice of temptation in an all-too clear way.
maybe not at first, maybe its veiled as random thought, but for so many to run to salvation.  There must be more, to take the chance of surrendering self, admiting weakness to find stregnth in obedience to ANYTHING requires something real, and terrifying, and beyond a measure of self-control.

I think we, as individuals, can justify just about any indulgence,  so it has to be something more than the pain of abstinance or the guilt of indulgence.

I think ALOT of people are perceiving something wicked, something tailor-made for their mind to gradually become previlant in their self-image.

I will call it the devil, because thats the word so many people use and it eludes to precisely the quality of which i speak.

So my point is, I believe people hear the devil tempting them, wheather "he" exists or not
people, induvidually, formulate a reckoning of "his" presence in some guilty form when they begin to model themselves as good, externilizing the enherant evils they cannot escape.  That dark side of their personality becomes a voice whispering secrets that we understand.

Some run to faith, some run wild, some think they can't run, so they submit.

No one feels responsible.  That's the other thing I think we all share.  A way to put this on someone else.  God, the devil, government, society.  Some of us can blaime drugs if we have done them, but many of us have not.

What is the worst thing you have ever immagined doing? I'm sure there are terrible things.
Eventually, we want to push such foul passions aside, but we can only push so far, and so much, at least, thats what "the devil" would have us believe.  I see a darkness fall over those who fall. some rise again, some not so much. I declare, Depression and doubt is the direction down, not the bottom, there is no bottom to the abyss.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The devil in the details [Re: Mitchnast]
    #11187579 - 10/05/09 05:04 PM (8 years, 19 days ago)

:satansmoking: The devil is your only friend.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMitchnast
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Registered: 10/28/99
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Re: The devil in the details [Re: Icelander]
    #11187654 - 10/05/09 05:18 PM (8 years, 19 days ago)

Well, what if your "best friend" tries to convince you to punish those who annoy or malign you in some bloody canabalistic ritual, and he just won't shut up about it?

A person should take responsibility for such compulsions and deal with it, not entertain friends who goad you into embracing it.  But this isn't a friend you can just dump.
Many try BLAIMING this "friend" afterwards, but "the devil made me do it" isn't considered a good defence in most states.

Might not be a good idea, profesionally speaking, to admit such desires to a doctor either.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: The devil in the details [Re: Mitchnast]
    #11188005 - 10/05/09 06:10 PM (8 years, 19 days ago)

My best friend looks out for me. He doesn't tell me to do things that go against my best interests. He does insist however that I be as truthful as possible and look at life right in the eye.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMitchnast
Trial by Madness
Male User Gallery Arcade Champion: Mahjong


Registered: 10/28/99
Posts: 8,572
Loc: Okanagan Flag
Last seen: 1 day, 21 hours
Re: The devil in the details [Re: Icelander]
    #11190125 - 10/05/09 10:59 PM (8 years, 19 days ago)

well I'll definately keep an ear open for those voices in my head


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: The devil in the details [Re: Mitchnast]
    #11192260 - 10/06/09 10:31 AM (8 years, 19 days ago)

You hear them too!:whoa::thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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