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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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God belief summation
    #11177736 - 10/03/09 11:55 PM (8 years, 20 days ago)

This from my 10 years observation here as a member.

Part I

A Being that cannot be defined (your first clue) must exist because everything has a cause except this Being (your second clue) and because complexity cannot arise from nothing except the most complex thing ever (not) observed (your final clue).


Part II

If something can affect a system, then it is part of that system. If it cannot affect the system, then it is not part of the system. An undefined Being cannot be both part and apart from a system. If it is not a part of the system, then it can never be known - not even it's existence. If it is part of a system then it CAN be observed and, at least partially, known.

This has nothing to do with religion and belief, but v-e-r-y basic logic.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: God belief summation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11177772 - 10/04/09 12:03 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

:thumbup:Nice, too bad only the people who don't need to hear it will understand and agree.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: God belief summation [Re: Icelander]
    #11177800 - 10/04/09 12:11 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Let him who has ears, hear!

Are you saying I am casting my pearls before swine?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: God belief summation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11177815 - 10/04/09 12:13 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

yes and yes

It's one of your better posts. You are actually quite smart.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineTheBalance
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Re: God belief summation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11177830 - 10/04/09 12:16 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

When the terminology used to discuss G*d is strictly defined...

This is limiting.

A being?

If it is part of a system then it CAN be observed and, at least partially, known.


Is there anything that fits your criteria, may be understood as god, but is not a being?

-The unconscious is not just evil by nature, it is also the source of the highest good: not only dark but also light, not only bestial, semihuman, and demonic but superhuman, spiritual, and, in the classical sense of the word, "divine."

The Practice of Psychotherapy, p. 364 (1953)
Carl Jung


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: God belief summation [Re: TheBalance]
    #11177865 - 10/04/09 12:22 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

When the terminology used to discuss G*d is strictly defined...

This is limiting.

A being?





All of my other notes are secondary as you point out that God cannot be defined. That should end the discussion right there.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: God belief summation [Re: Icelander]
    #11177867 - 10/04/09 12:24 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

You are actually quite smart.




Next, I will explain how to build a warp engine.

:tard:


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InvisibleKnobby Tops
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Re: God belief summation [Re: TheBalance]
    #11177870 - 10/04/09 12:24 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Very eloquent post...

In my opinion, God is merely a psychic necessity, just as the love of another is a psychic necessity.

Only those people who refuse to see reality as it actually is or they are so entrench in their moralistic view, are belivers in an all powerful, malevolent diety.

I say NUKE them all ! haha


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OfflineTheBalance
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Re: God belief summation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11177913 - 10/04/09 12:35 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

When the terminology used to discuss G*d is strictly defined...

This is limiting.

A being?





All of my other notes are secondary as you point out that God cannot be defined. That should end the discussion right there.




No, no.

Defined cannot be G*d.  This is why God is out of the question.  See?:wink:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: God belief summation [Re: TheBalance]
    #11177932 - 10/04/09 12:37 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

No, no? Seems we are saying the same thing.


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OfflineTheBalance
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Re: God belief summation [Re: Knobby Tops]
    #11177937 - 10/04/09 12:39 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

I say NUKE them all ! haha




Shit, Truman!:uhoh:


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OfflineTheBalance
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Re: God belief summation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11177992 - 10/04/09 12:54 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
No, no? Seems we are saying the same thing.




Perhaps.

Oh I see.

Yeah for the experience of G*d.
Death to the Disastrous Doctrine of God.

Bring on the anointing.

Christ.


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Offlinethe_conservatarian
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Re: God belief summation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11178266 - 10/04/09 01:51 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Part II

If something can affect a system, then it is part of that system. If it cannot affect the system, then it is not part of the system. An undefined Being cannot be both part and apart from a system. If it is not a part of the system, then it can never be known - not even it's existence. If it is part of a system then it CAN be observed and, at least partially, known.

This has nothing to do with religion and belief, but v-e-r-y basic logic.




Ok, I'm not debating you one way or the other, but I'm going to try to shed some light from a different point of view.

Let us take the idea of how a dog views the world. A dog is only capable of perceiving color in black and white. A dog lacks the capability to process or perceive color, due to how the dog's eye is constructed.

To a dog, the color blue is undefined. He looks at the sky everyday, but does not perceive the sky as being the color blue. Does this mean that to the dog, the color blue does not exist? Yes, I suppose it does. But does it mean that the blue color spectrum does not exist, simply because the dog cannot perceive it? No, sorry, the blue spectrum still exists, irregardless of whether the puny senses of a dog can perceive it.

You state: "An undefined Being cannot be both part and apart from a system. If it is not a part of the system, then it can never be known - not even it's existence. If it is part of a system then it CAN be observed and, at least partially, known."

This is very true. To a dog, the color blue is not a part of his system, and can never be known or understood. It is undefined to him. But that doesn't mean that the blue spectrum doesn't exist both as part and apart from his system. It is very much an everyday occurrence.

To me, this is the actual proof that one cannot come to the conclusion that God or a higher power does not exist.

I'm not suggesting that you are attempting to disprove a higher power, but it kind of sounds like you are. In my opinion, people who think they are soooo smart that they can disprove a higher power only make me laugh. As though having 5 little senses and a brain that can conduct 1+1 logic gives them the ability to understand the universe...  People that think only 'smart people' can realize that God doesn't exist are annoying, and probably aren't as smart as they think they are...


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OfflineTheBalance
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Re: God belief summation [Re: the_conservatarian]
    #11178310 - 10/04/09 02:04 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

'irregardless'

'Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.'

-http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irregardless


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Offlinethe_conservatarian
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Re: God belief summation [Re: TheBalance]
    #11178400 - 10/04/09 02:35 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:



'Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.'

-http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irregardless




I really care. Did you use 'the google' to find that?

Irregardless - did you not read the part about 'casual writing'? I'll be sure to give a shit next time, smart guy...


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OfflineTheBalance
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Re: God belief summation [Re: the_conservatarian]
    #11178451 - 10/04/09 02:52 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Yes, and I'll give two. :poop::poop:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: God belief summation [Re: the_conservatarian]
    #11178458 - 10/04/09 02:54 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

This is very true. To a dog, the color blue is not a part of his system, and can never be known or understood. It is undefined to him. But that doesn't mean that the blue spectrum doesn't exist both as part and apart from his system. It is very much an everyday occurrence.

To me, this is the actual proof that one cannot come to the conclusion that God or a higher power does not exist.





So dog2 approaches dog1, even though he has the same perceptual limitations as dog1 and sez, "Did you know the color of the sky is not truly as we perceive it?"

And dog2 asks, "Well, how do you know that?" And dog2 replies: "I just do," or "I read it in a book," and then dog1 is just supposed to accept that?

Dog1 has the same conclusion as I do. If there is zero evidence, then it cannot logically be talked about. If there is some evidence, then it can be shared and examined.


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Offlinethe_conservatarian
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Re: God belief summation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11178524 - 10/04/09 03:22 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:


So dog2 approaches dog1, even though he has the same perceptual limitations as dog1 and sez, "Did you know the color of the sky is not truly as we perceive it?"

And dog2 asks, "Well, how do you know that?" And dog2 replies: "I just do," or "I read it in a book," and then dog1 is just supposed to accept that?

Dog1 has the same conclusion as I do. If there is zero evidence, then it cannot logically be talked about. If there is some evidence, then it can be shared and examined.




No, the second dog shouldn't just accept it. That's not what I'm saying. I'm actually arguing that no conclusion should be reached in this situation. Just as it would be ridiculous for either dog to accept something without fact, it would be just as ridiculous for one dog to assume that there is no chance that a "color" "blue" exists, because he has never seen blue, and no other dog observation can prove such a thing.

I'm just saying, our senses are very limited. They aren't capable of interpreting or describing the entire universe. To assume that the entire universe can be 'observed' with our 5 little senses, is really beyond egotistical.


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Invisiblejoemolloy
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Re: God belief summation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11178835 - 10/04/09 08:02 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
This from my 10 years observation here as a member.

Part I

A Being that cannot be defined (your first clue) must exist because everything has a cause except this Being (your second clue) and because complexity cannot arise from nothing except the most complex thing ever (not) observed (your final clue).


Part II

If something can affect a system, then it is part of that system. If it cannot affect the system, then it is not part of the system. An undefined Being cannot be both part and apart from a system. If it is not a part of the system, then it can never be known - not even it's existence. If it is part of a system then it CAN be observed and, at least partially, known.

This has nothing to do with religion and belief, but v-e-r-y basic logic.







Jesus is defined and can be known!  Just open your heart.
He is not only part of the system, he is the system.  Oh, why can't you see?!  (as the priest fingers your asshole)


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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OfflineCherk
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Re: God belief summation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11178932 - 10/04/09 09:13 AM (8 years, 20 days ago)

How about you give us 10 points from the past year you've spent here.


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