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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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gridlock...
    #11176118 - 10/03/09 06:37 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

gridlock occurs when everyone has to go to the same place at the same time and they all have to take the same street...as a result..the average american wastes 13 years stuck in traffic...this naturally raises the question of what element of human evolution has caused this behaviour to become genetically hard-wired..despite the obvious cost...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineShroomerRoss
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Re: gridlock... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #11176177 - 10/03/09 06:53 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

..the average american wastes 13 years stuck in traffic


wtf is that serious.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,050
Re: gridlock... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #11176297 - 10/03/09 07:23 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

13 years?  Thats obviously not true.  That would be over 4 hours in traffic each and every day of your life from birth to death.

I would guess, off the top of my head, that we spend much less time traveling now - even with grid lock - then in other historical societies.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: gridlock... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #11176487 - 10/03/09 07:59 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

The creation of cities allows us to pool resources in a single area, making a lot of aspects of socialization easier.

As for the "element of human evolution" that has caused this, I'd say its survival.  We need to work to put food on the table.  We put up with gridlock to gain resources.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: gridlock... [Re: DieCommie]
    #11177162 - 10/03/09 10:25 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
13 years?  Thats obviously not true.  That would be over 4 hours in traffic each and every day of your life from birth to death.

I would guess, off the top of my head, that we spend much less time traveling now - even with grid lock - then in other historical societies.




a two-hour commute each way would never happen in innsmouth..but in my experience and a few FOAFs of mine.. its quite average in large cities...i would guess..of the top of my head..is that we may spend less time travelling between cities..but more time travelling within them...

Quote:

As for the "element of human evolution" that has caused this, I'd say its survival.  We need to work to put food on the table.  We put up with gridlock to gain resources.




but that would mean that the entire population of the city works at exactly the same place..and theres only one way to get there...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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InvisibleChespirito
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Re: gridlock... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #11177179 - 10/03/09 10:28 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I live in the city with the worst traffic in the US and there is no chance that number is true.  Just absolutely no chance


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: gridlock... [Re: Chespirito]
    #11177277 - 10/03/09 10:41 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

you can avoid those long traffic jams if your city has a good public transportation system.. or for whatever other reason you dont have to drive...but with cheney having decimated funding for public transportation..and with the cuts still in place..thats less of an option for too many ppl...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: gridlock... [Re: Chespirito]
    #11177295 - 10/03/09 10:44 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Do we live in the same city?

I agree that it can't be true as an average over the entire population of the US.  Firstly because nobody commutes as a kid or after they retire, and secondly because 4 hour round trip commutes are an extreme--done by some but not many people.  If 4 hours were average, that would mean that some people commute much much more to make up for all the people (like myself) who only commute 20 minutes each day...


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: gridlock... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #11177313 - 10/03/09 10:46 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
but that would mean that the entire population of the city works at exactly the same place..and theres only one way to get there...




By definition, a city is a designated, relatively small area.  There are only so many ways in, and a limited number of avenues/streets to move about in once there.

On top of this, the majority of people are entering and leaving at the same time (e.g. the standard work day).

Nobody likes gridlock, its simply a byproduct of large, modern cities.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisibleChespirito
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Re: gridlock... [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #11177375 - 10/03/09 10:56 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
Do we live in the same city?




Ha LA also?  I know it has the most cars traveling on its freeways, and it seems pretty clear based off experience that the traffic is the worst.  As for the OP posters point about public transportation, LA also has little of that.  We have a 'subway' line that goes from North Hollywood to downtown, and thats it.  Then we have some light rail that moves in a single line north and south, and some bullshit other light rail that I guess is meant to end up in LAX but doesn't.  Oh and dont forget the 'metro' line from the Valley to North Hollywood that is in actuality just a bus. Just so annoying to me, especially since LA used to have a system of train travel through the city.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: gridlock... [Re: Chespirito]
    #11178335 - 10/04/09 02:11 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

You forgot the light rail from downtown to Pasadena...

PM.


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Invisiblemozhual
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Re: gridlock... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #11178514 - 10/04/09 03:14 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

So you want to know why we crowd together like this? It's cause we love each other! No seriously read up on H.K.Bloom's take in the Global Brain. We crowd like this to exchange ideas, feelings, physical goods too.

Whats more is that MOST organisms do this to one degree or another and have been since the begining of life 3.85 billion years ago. Isolated human beings like solitary bacterium undergo Apoptosis, programmed cell death(represented in things like depression and suicide). It is believe that this process is governed by chemical signals a given cell receives from its neighbors. We need to be around groups of people to survive and the bigger the better!(from a brain's eye view)

To understand this you need to face the fact that we are groups of people, no one is really an individual in any sense of the word. Just because we don't have a physical membrane holding us together doesn't make this any less true. The cases of Apoptosis and Altruism are infinite in abundance, even though some of them may happen to be caused by genetic factors.


--------------------
"Nature is like a sculptor constantly improving upon her work, but to do so she chisels away at living flesh." H.K. Bloom

"Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is not omnipotent...
Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent...
Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god." Epicurus c. 300 BCE

"When I brought up the fact that 'No drug is good or bad, they're all just A drug, what someone does with them determines the postive or negative outcome. Look at medicine, those are drugs' Reponse was that 'well medicine solves problems' well so does LSD." -Learningtofly


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Invisiblemozhual
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Re: gridlock... [Re: mozhual]
    #11178523 - 10/04/09 03:22 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Now to talk about the "cost".

Well quite frankly nobody seems to care about this "cost". Not enough for everyone to give up cars are use mass transit as it was intended. You might say there isn't enough room on the trains and buses or they don't go to enough places. Who's fault is that? No one but our own. If the demand was there, it would be built(corporations always like to make a buck).

Fact is people generally like driving cars, just as much as they  generally like being in large groups of people. Car's are made to be an extension of our being, another way to say to everyone "I'm important or useful", or sometimes just "I'm better then everyone else". Car's ceased being merely a means of travel a long long time ago.

EDIT:
I'd like to add in that another major contributing factor is conflicts of interest. A lot people would rather commute to work for an hour and pay less on a house/earn more at their job, then simply live and work in a close vicinity (and hence earn less/pay more).
Which is kinda of funny because usually they spend that car ride alone hence going against their nature to be around people(sometimes even people they don't like!).


Edited by mozhual (10/04/09 03:29 AM)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: gridlock... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #11178909 - 10/04/09 08:53 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

> gridlock occurs when everyone has to go to the same place at the same time and they all have to take the same street..

That is a bottleneck, not a gridlock.  Gridlock occurs when two or more people don't obey traffic laws and try to squeeze through an intersection out of turn at the same time; they mutually block each other with neither able to move until the other moves.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: gridlock... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #11179009 - 10/04/09 09:57 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
the average american wastes 13 years stuck in traffic




You can of course back up your claim?

No? What a surprise!

Try this:

Quote:

Congestion delay per traveler in 1982 was 13.8 hours. In 2005, that number had almost tripled to 37.4 hours. But it was down to 36.1 hours in 2007, representing a "rare break in near-constant growth," the report said.




Remember..... a sober poster is an accurate poster!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleStein
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Re: gridlock... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #11179037 - 10/04/09 10:09 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Remember..... a sober poster is an accurate poster!





Yeah, but, where's the fun in that?


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: gridlock... [Re: Stein]
    #11179899 - 10/04/09 01:30 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Chicago traffic has to be worse than LA.

I would bet money on this.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleChespirito
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Re: gridlock... [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #11180180 - 10/04/09 02:33 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Chicago?  Id wager NYC is worse than Chicago. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Los_Angeles_Interchange

I know LA has the top several busiest freeways in the US so I would assume it has the most traffic.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: gridlock... [Re: mozhual]
    #11194691 - 10/06/09 05:45 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mozhual said:
So you want to know why we crowd together like this? It's cause we love each other!




obviously sarcasm..but since you brought it up.. many driving manoeuvres do seem deliberately calculated to slow down the ppl behind them...that tells me that theres some kind of underlying power struggle...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisiblemozhual
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Re: gridlock... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #11198593 - 10/07/09 05:33 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I would not think it out of line to completely visualize cars as just an extension of the ego/personality/self, much like computers ahve become. Therefore would it be too bold to say that people driving as though their only objective is to annoy and slow down the people around them is analogous (at least vaguely, in my opinion) anonymity on the internet? It brings out the inner asshole in a lot of people simply because they will probably never see/remember seeing you ever again.


--------------------
"Nature is like a sculptor constantly improving upon her work, but to do so she chisels away at living flesh." H.K. Bloom

"Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is not omnipotent...
Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent...
Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god." Epicurus c. 300 BCE

"When I brought up the fact that 'No drug is good or bad, they're all just A drug, what someone does with them determines the postive or negative outcome. Look at medicine, those are drugs' Reponse was that 'well medicine solves problems' well so does LSD." -Learningtofly


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