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OfflineKickleM
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Which is more important?
    #11175512 - 10/03/09 04:47 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

the act of accomplishing
or
finding things to accomplish


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinecyb3rtr0n
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Re: Which is more important? [Re: Kickle]
    #11175535 - 10/03/09 04:52 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

which is more important.

The End
or
The Pursuit


You cant reach one without the other.  Maybe its more important to loop the choices so that you are always challenging yourself. 

I think the difficult part is, knowing which "finding things to accomplish" to follow through with to the end; so we can chalk it up on our life's resume.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Which is more important? [Re: cyb3rtr0n]
    #11175565 - 10/03/09 04:59 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

I like that, the end or the pursuit.

While the end cannot be reached without first having the pursuit, the pursuit alone does not guarantee the end is reached. One can engage in the pursuit for all their life.

Is the end critical?
If you could choose to never experience the end, would you?
What about in terms of life, where the end is death and the pursuit is living?


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinecyb3rtr0n
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Re: Which is more important? [Re: Kickle]
    #11175792 - 10/03/09 05:39 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

There is no true "end"..


But, I guess "Which is more important?" would depend on what is important.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Which is more important? [Re: cyb3rtr0n]
    #11176450 - 10/03/09 07:53 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

There is no true "end"..




So you're also saying there is no true "pursuit"
What's the point in being, then?


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Which is more important? [Re: Kickle]
    #11176458 - 10/03/09 07:54 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

To procreate and continue the evolutionary process silly.:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Which is more important? [Re: Icelander]
    #11176496 - 10/03/09 08:01 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

So the pursuit of life, awesome. :thumbup:
But wait, how does this avoid having an end? Is life eternal or sumthin?


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinecyb3rtr0n
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Re: Which is more important? [Re: Kickle]
    #11176541 - 10/03/09 08:09 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

I'm thinking more like....

there are tons of pursuits and ends going on right now. I don't know when they began, and I don't know when/if it will end, so I just keep on perusing. 


now put the "true end" aside, because that is an unknown that we just accept as unknown.

Too many open ended pursuits can lead to problems like depression.  not enough collections of pursuit's and ends can lead to anxieties.

I guess a goal would be the target of a collection of pursuits and ends taken to reach said goal..


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Which is more important? [Re: Kickle]
    #11176564 - 10/03/09 08:13 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
So the pursuit of life, awesome. :thumbup:
But wait, how does this avoid having an end? Is life eternal or sumthin?




There is no evidence of eternal life outside of pure energy. And you can't prove energy is alive.

Life has an end but the personality structure because of unconscious death anxiety creates the illusion of eternal life. Death is always sometime in the future and we all know that future is well, in the future.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Which is more important? [Re: Icelander]
    #11176597 - 10/03/09 08:20 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

The comment about eternal life was the only explanation I could find for death not being a true "end".

If death is a true "end", then living is a true "pursuit".


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Which is more important? [Re: cyb3rtr0n]
    #11176610 - 10/03/09 08:22 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:


Too many open ended pursuits can lead to problems like depression.  not enough collections of pursuit's and ends can lead to anxieties.




Oh, is that so?
Then what happens to those who make the pursuit their end?


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinecyb3rtr0n
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Re: Which is more important? [Re: Kickle]
    #11176637 - 10/03/09 08:27 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Quote:


Too many open ended pursuits can lead to problems like depression.  not enough collections of pursuit's and ends can lead to anxieties.




Oh, is that so?
Then what happens to those who make the pursuit their end?




with what goal in mind?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Which is more important? [Re: Kickle]
    #11176648 - 10/03/09 08:30 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
The comment about eternal life was the only explanation I could find for death not being a true "end".

If death is a true "end", then living is a true "pursuit".




Well we really don't know what happens when life ends, do we? So why try to figure that out?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Which is more important? [Re: Icelander]
    #11176697 - 10/03/09 08:41 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

If you ask me, that's a fundamental question in coming to terms with this so called "death anxiety". If we don't know, why should we fear it? What are we attributing to it to make it something to fear? deCypher mentioned that death is less meaningful, and perhaps that is what we fear. Yet when I think of things I've found meaningless, the best word I can come up with to describe it, is amotivational.


I'm just digging a bit.


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Which is more important? [Re: cyb3rtr0n]
    #11176700 - 10/03/09 08:43 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

cyb3rtr0n said:
with what goal in mind?




The goal of pursuing.


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Which is more important? [Re: Kickle]
    #11176710 - 10/03/09 08:45 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

Death anxiety is not about whether we "should" or should not fear death. We have no choice. This is the point from which it derives it's awesome power over all of our lives and most all of our actions.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Which is more important? [Re: Icelander]
    #11176721 - 10/03/09 08:47 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

I've yet to hear a satisfactory explanation for 'why'
There are tons of explanations for 'how' but I've yet to hear one for 'why'
Ultimate causation versus proximate causation

'it just is' is not a satisfactory explanation for 'why'


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Which is more important? [Re: Kickle]
    #11176746 - 10/03/09 08:56 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

why? why do we fear death you mean? come on. Try instinct for one. Try having a brain that can comprehend non being. Then an ego structure that feels itself all important and omnipotent.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Which is more important? [Re: Icelander]
    #11176839 - 10/03/09 09:14 PM (8 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Try instinct for one




Q: Why do we fear death?
A: Instinct

Sounds the same as

Q: Why do we enjoy being alive?
A: Instinct


If you enjoy being alive, you're naturally going to fear the lack of life in death.
And if you fear death, you're naturally going to try and avoid dying for as long as you can.
This makes sense to me.

But if I put death first, I can't make it work for myself.

If you fear death, you're naturally going to enjoy being alive. (What!? Enjoying life is going to create that much more anxiety about its loss!)
And if you enjoy being alive, you're naturally going to avoid dying for as long as you can.


So, again, why would I assume it is death causing me to do things instead of life?


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinecyb3rtr0n
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Re: Which is more important? [Re: Kickle]
    #11176849 - 10/03/09 09:16 PM (8 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Quote:

cyb3rtr0n said:
with what goal in mind?




The goal of pursuing.





pursuing happiness?
pursuing lonelyness?
pursuing suicide?
pursuing the accumulation of shit to make it look like your pursuing goals?

pursuing what..



in typing this post, for each and every movement of the fingers, for each movement of the eye, for each neuron that sparked in the creation of this rabble.. each one of those pursuits ended when the next action started, and the collection of those pursuits&ends led to the goal of replying to your comment.

now put that on the bigger scale of our lives....

if somebody has anxiety of a situation is normally due to the fear of the unknown or uncontrollable. but you can help prevent anxiety by practicing/preparing/learning about the situation you are about to face to lessen the anxiety.  and each of these preparations/practices/learning were each a pursuit, if you end all possible pursuits to your goal of "insert here" you will be better prepared to face the situation with confidence.


life may have a beginning and end or it may not. but, life does not exist just to end.


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