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Re: Reverse Racism [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #11187819 -

That's all fine and dandy, but at the end of the day, it takes a human being to weigh the choices and make a decision.

Corporations and free markets are responsible for no more injustices that any other concept, including religion and nationalism. People are.

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Re: Reverse Racism [Re: Redstorm]
    #11187845 -

Redstorm said:
That's all fine and dandy, but at the end of the day, it takes a human being to weigh the choices and make a decision.

Corporations and free markets are responsible for no more injustices that any other concept, including religion and nationalism. People are.


I hear what you're saying, but I don't think people actually weigh every possible outcome of their decisions.  That's an unintended consequence of corporations and free markets.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Reverse Racism [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #11187880 -

Perhaps I misread what Redstorm was saying.  I guess my contention is that once a system is set up in an unjust way it doesn't really take a willful act from an individual to bring injustice.  It only takes participation in the unjust system. 

Quote:
Of course a system can be unjust.  However, without individuals willing to put this latent characteristic into action, the characteristics of the system are meaningless.


That's true but the action taken by the individual doesn't have to be an unjust action.


--------------------
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
     
~H. L. Mencken~

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Re: Reverse Racism [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #11188113 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Redstorm said:
That's all fine and dandy, but at the end of the day, it takes a human being to weigh the choices and make a decision.

Corporations and free markets are responsible for no more injustices that any other concept, including religion and nationalism. People are.


I hear what you're saying, but I don't think people actually weigh every possible outcome of their decisions.  That's an unintended consequence of corporations and free markets.


Not taking into account every outcome of one's decision is not an unintended consequence of corporations and free markets, but of cognitive limitations.

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Re: Reverse Racism [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11188191 -

There is no reverse racism.

Judging someone based on their melanin content of the epidermis is racism. A black man hating on a white man is racism, if it's a generalization based on skin color. A white man hating on a black man is racism, if it's a generalization based on skin color.

A purple transvestite hating on a purple neuter is racism, if it's based on some twisted mutation of melanin content of the skin.

And white people are not white. They are pink. Unless they are albino, then they are white.

Partisan nonsense may well often be discrimination, and counter discrimination or attempts at discrimination. Unless it is discrimination based on melanin content of the epidermis it is not racism. Hatred based on belief or culture do not apply, and that would often be well classified as ethnocentrism rather than a particular distaste toward so-called 'skin color'.




~Monk

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Re: Reverse Racism [Re: Redstorm]
    #11188419 -

Redstorm said:
Not taking into account every outcome of one's decision is not an unintended consequence of corporations and free markets, but of cognitive limitations.


We can agree.  But to overcome this I believe we need regulators and rulemakers to prevent such things from occuring.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Reverse Racism [Re: Redstorm]
    #11188470 -

Redstorm said:
That's all fine and dandy, but at the end of the day, it takes a human being to weigh the choices and make a decision.

Corporations and free markets are responsible for no more injustices that any other concept, including religion and nationalism. People are.


A CEO can be sacked for making a decision that interferes with the profit of the company and thus the shareholders.

Further a CEO cannot easily find out how it's shareholders feel about ethical issues of a company. Leaving the only persuadable immediate action to be the lowest common denominator of profit. As Adam Smith once said "when ownership is separated from management, the former will inevitably begin to neglect the interests of the latter, creating dysfunction within the company."

Stock trading further confounds the ability to allow owners to exert their authority over the methods of production at a corporation by allowing it to be traded for quick profits on the stock market. The stock market, which does no public good, has no values other than profit and pursues no ethical pursuits. Many shares come under the grasp of the stock market and erode the sovereignty of long term investors over company policy.

It is absolutely ridiculous to say that affirmative action gives blacks an advantage in the market but the free market doesn't give corporations and the rich an upper hand.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: Reverse Racism [Re: Smackshadow]
    #11188539 -

Smackshadow said:
I think the problem here is that when talking about racism "Majority" does not mean the numerically superior group.

Majority, at least in my understanding, means the group with the most access to money, social networks, organization, etc.  In other words power.  In South Africa the Whites, even though they were a numeric minority, sill held control of the government, most businesses, and access to wealth.  Thus, they were the Majority.

And assuming that oppression is an element of racism (which I would contest) I don't see how putting someone on desk duty is oppression.

For that matter, I am not entirely sure how Affirmative action or even a quota system is oppression.


yup


--------------------
I close my eyes and seize it
I clench my fists and beat it
I light my torch and burn it
I am the beast I worship....

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Re: Reverse Racism [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #11188549 -

This I agree with. 

The problem with systems is that eventually people have to use them, and we usually fuck them all up.

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