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InvisibleHerbal_Elixer
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So, this sucks.. (but it's leading me in all kinds of new directions, thanks all)
    #11164990 - 10/01/09 06:48 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

So, after searching high and low for something to use as bulk substrate in large quantity available to me locally (for oysters), I found a guy milling Greenheart hardwood only in my area. Seeing as how wheat straw is not here, and everything else is too expensive to make it worth it (or performs to poorly).. I have been like YAY! Problem Solved!

Now, the truckload just arrived.. as I have been waiting for it for the past month thinking all is good. My spawn bags are close to ready etc.,. I am off loading with the guy, and I ask, "Where are you finding this Greenheart to mill?" He gladly replies "Old piers".. "Old piers?" I say..

Yes, old fishing piers, these are pylons that have been holding up an old pier for the past 15-20 years, in the Atlantic. Crap! I can only imagine the salt content.. However, the pylons have been sitting outdoors for the past 4 months.. steady rain and sunshine have been steadily washing them, but I am sure not to the core.

I proceeded to take a small amount.. rinse and drain it a million times, then loaded a filter patch bag with it, PC'd and squirted some oyster LC.. I guess I will find out how it goes.. if it goes. In the meantime, I am not about to waste all my spawn bags on this stuff until I know.. so I am experimenting with the following:

(FYI: All have been supplemented with wheat bran, coffee, gypsum)

Palm Fronds and Verm
Palm Fronds, Paper and Verm
Palm Fronds, Paper, Aspen Shavings and Verm

I really wanted something to put out flushes like I have seen with wheat straw.. thought the sawdust was the answer.. If I spend anymore than a couple dollars per 24" of poly-log, it will not be worth it. So my bulk must remain free, with cheap supplements. No one else around here has 100% hardwood dust/chips.. no wood fuel pellets either.


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Edited by Herbal_Elixer (10/07/09 11:29 AM)


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OfflineCryogeniczV
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Re: So, this sucks.. [Re: Herbal_Elixer]
    #11166939 - 10/02/09 12:44 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Where are you located? Florida?

-Graham


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InvisibleTherian
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Re: So, this sucks.. [Re: Cryogenicz]
    #11167202 - 10/02/09 01:22 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I wonder if this wood has been treated with some sort of copper/chromium/arsenic since it was intended to be used in direct contact with the water. I would be more worried about that than the salt content.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: So, this sucks.. [Re: Therian]
    #11167572 - 10/02/09 02:25 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

yah 20 years ago they used all kinda of quaky stuff to preserve wood.  which basically ammounts to poisens that kill anything that tried to grow on it


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InvisibleHerbal_Elixer
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Re: So, this sucks.. [Re: Cryogenicz]
    #11168337 - 10/02/09 08:12 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cryogenicz said:
Where are you located? Florida?

-Graham




Yeah


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InvisibleHerbal_Elixer
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Re: So, this sucks.. [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #11168424 - 10/02/09 08:53 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
yah 20 years ago they used all kinda of quaky stuff to preserve wood.  which basically ammounts to poisens that kill anything that tried to grow on it





"In the past, wooden components were treated with a creosote material, which is essentially an oil-based tar residue that is saturated in the material. This material, over time, may deteriorate and require replacement... The Army Corps of Engineers, which controls the waterways in the United States, have for the past several years resisted permitting the use of creosote material." Source

However, in the case of using Greenheart, it is naturally resistant to these environments without any help from us, odds are it was just used in its natural state.. if not, well, the creosote (if used) should be almost completely diminished.

"Domestic woods must be treated to increase durability. The treatment process is toxic and may leave the wood up to 33% weaker than prior to treatment. Untreated and natural, Greenheart will out last treated domestic wood at a ratio of approximately three to one. Replacement material and construction costs are significantly reduced when Greenheart is installed..Greenheart does not require any treatment such as is usually the case with softer woods" Source

There is one known sailing ship made of 100% Greenheart and it is still in one piece, it is really rare to find because it is so hard to mill, even today. It is also considered anti fungal.. but these properties are based on the density .. which in its current state is no longer an issue.. which leaves me pondering the salt content.. but either way, I have a couple test bags going.. one with spawn and one with LC

.. but my gut is telling me to find a new bulk sub


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OfflineSOUTHERN
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Re: So, this sucks.. [Re: Herbal_Elixer]
    #11168435 - 10/02/09 08:57 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

where in florida r u?? do u have a trailer? go north to bama or georgia and get some wheat straw. when they sow grass in yards here they cover it in wheat straw.. what do they do there.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: So, this sucks.. [Re: Herbal_Elixer]
    #11168441 - 10/02/09 09:00 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

one other thing to consider is all the chemicals in the water, its possible lots of boats have been parking next to this wood, and 20 years ago those boats would have been using leaded gas.  above ground people say to steer away from wood near roads.  so just a thought


--------------------
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We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

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InvisibleHerbal_Elixer
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Re: So, this sucks.. [Re: SOUTHERN]
    #11168457 - 10/02/09 09:05 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SOUTHERN said:
where in florida r u?? do u have a trailer? go north to bama or georgia and get some wheat straw. when they sow grass in yards here they cover it in wheat straw.. what do they do there.




here they till and sod (Miami).. I mention wheat straw to feed stores and farmers I have met.. and they act like I am speaking Chinese.. no one has it here.. its all alfalfa hay and what not.. all green. I am planning a trip to GA in about 7-8 months.. I will be getting wheat straw and some wood fuel pellet bags.. but I am stuck with about 15 bags of almost ready oyster spawn now.. and as much as paper is an option, I am making paper my last option as the flushes are not comparable to natural subs.. from what I have seen.


____________

I guess fuel contamination could be an issue.. but in the overall scheme of a pylon.. 20 feet in the sand.. 20 feet above the water.. fuel floats.. it would make up a very small infected portion.


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InvisibleHerbal_Elixer
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Re: So, this sucks.. [Re: Herbal_Elixer]
    #11168482 - 10/02/09 09:10 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

actually.. having talked so much about Greenheart now.. I can gather this.. Creosote (the tar based treatment) only penetrates 2-3" of soft woods. Greenheart is harder and denser than most wood on the planet.. so it would soak up much less.. I don't see how fuel can do much better. But, this is also leaving me more confident about the salt content.. maybe it isn't as penetrated as I am imagining..


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InvisibleHerbal_Elixer
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Re: So, this sucks.. [Re: Herbal_Elixer]
    #11168523 - 10/02/09 09:25 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I just talked to the guy.. it was untreated .. so that's good.


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InvisibleHerbal_Elixer
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Re: So, this sucks.. [Re: Herbal_Elixer]
    #11168562 - 10/02/09 09:35 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

yeah.. crap.. Why risk it? right? I am going to work on an alternative and re-use that sawdust for landscaping. The guy says that the natural trees around here love the stuff, says they get brighter and healthier looking when placed around the trunk.

Blah.. time for a breakfast beer.. what a wasted effort for the past month.


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Edited by Herbal_Elixer (10/02/09 09:38 AM)


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InvisibleHerbal_Elixer
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Re: So, this sucks.. [Re: Herbal_Elixer]
    #11168633 - 10/02/09 10:07 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

[Bright Wheat Straw in 2 String Bales],
Price Includes delivery by semi-truck to [Zip: xxxxx]
$6.15 per bag Minimum order 1 semi load 625 bales.

lol


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Re: So, this sucks.. [Re: Herbal_Elixer]
    #11169176 - 10/02/09 12:54 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Oysters will fruit off a lot of stuff. Have you considered composting lawn clippings?

I remember RR said that composted lawn clippings made a decent substitute for straw for cubes some time way back.


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InvisibleHerbal_Elixer
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Re: So, this sucks.. [Re: ScavengerType]
    #11170283 - 10/02/09 04:41 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I am heading in that direction as well. I am hoping that the palm frond/paper mix will perform well. But I have to hand shred the palm fronds since they don't process through a chipper. My hands are all busted up after doing enough to fill two poly logs.. :frown:

I am on one last new lead for sugar cane bagasse.. but so far these have always led to a primary source that doesn't respond. I started calling up the state for wheat straw, and even the biggest hay dealer in central Florida couldn't help me.. I can get alfalfa bales all day, and that's where that stops.

Grass clippings, is an option, as there is a landscaping truck every 2 minutes full of the stuff.. I also have a small composted pile in my back yard now.. so maybe I will give it a shot tomorrow.


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Invisiblecuddlebear
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Re: So, this sucks.. [Re: Herbal_Elixer]
    #11179770 - 10/04/09 12:58 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

What's wrong with just using paper & cardboard? I got 4 lbs off this grow, unsupplemented in the middle of summer (I'm also in FL and can't find straw):



I hear hay cut in the beginning of the season does not have seeds, so it might be worth checking into next spring. There's also woodchips and sawdust, which you can get for free or really low cost from tree services & cabinent/moulding workshops.


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InvisibleJef
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Re: So, this sucks.. [Re: cuddlebear]
    #11180133 - 10/04/09 02:24 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Newspapers are going the way of the Dinosaur.  Closing everywhere.  Get em' while you can.


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Re: So, this sucks.. [Re: cuddlebear]
    #11180150 - 10/04/09 02:27 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

what's wrong with alfalfa hay?  Even if you use it as a supplement with your sawdust, I am sure it will work.  I have found when wood is considered anti-fungal that it means it has a high oil content but after 20 years exposed to water and milled into sawdust, it should be okay.  If not do not give up on a potentially free source of material.  6-12months of composting can do wonders to sawdust.

Good luck and persevere that's what every successful mushroom grower needs! :grin:


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InvisibleHerbal_Elixer
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Re: So, this sucks.. [Re: solumvita]
    #11180226 - 10/04/09 02:42 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

my palm frond/paper/aspen/verm log is almost fully colonized after 3 days.. at 1:1 with spawn.. I think I might stick with that.. more impressive than I thought it could be. I have two test bags of the sawdust.. one direct innoc from oyster LC and one with Shiitake plug spawn.. neither is showing ANY growth.. not even at the edges of the plug spawn.. however that same shiitake plug spawn aggressively colonized the same frond/paper/aspen/verm sub as above but wood chips instead of paper. I also shot up a coconut (no supplements) with oyster LC and it is colonizing (faster than that sawdust as well). I think palm fronds with light supplements are going to work. Also, home depot is overloaded with eucalyptus mulch, large bags for cheap.. and it works too. I am just going to compare a few methods and stick with the top producers.


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InvisibleHerbal_Elixer
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Re: So, this sucks.. [Re: Herbal_Elixer]
    #11188200 - 10/05/09 06:38 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Here is the result of a mostly palm frond poly log ( a few days in):



Guess I will be venturing in this direction.. thanks for all the replies.


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Edited by Herbal_Elixer (10/05/09 06:39 PM)


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