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OfflinePsychedelicious
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Very, very slow WBS jars. Pictures inside.
    #11160384 - 09/30/09 11:34 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

This is the most growth I've gotten out of my jars after nearly two weeks. This jar is the farthest along, the other jar is at about half the progress of this one.



- I rinsed till clean, then soaked my WBS for 24 hours, and PC'ed for roughly 90 minutes at 15 PSI. Floaters were filtered out.
- I shook the grains up before inoculating to even out moisture content.. it was just right. Not too wet, not too dry. Just a tad moist.
- A glovebox was used, everything was very clean and still.
- I inoculated with slightly poor technique - the needle wouldn't reach into the grain so I shot it (about 1cc per jar) down onto it. Due to this, I shook the grains up afterwards, which I know is wrong - I should have waited to 30% at least.
- I've had them at ideal temperatures (71-74ish degrees) for the whole two weeks.
- The lid has a screwdriver sized hole (tyvex filtered) for co2 escape.

Basically, I dunno what is taking so long. I really don't. I have more syringes on the way and more jars, and want to nail this down. Do you think that the heavy shaking right after inoculation is what is causing this horribly slow growth?


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<metatron> i dont think the surface area of a mushroom is quite ideal to administer psychoactive compounds anally


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Offlinescrotesmcgrotes
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Re: Very, very slow WBS jars. Pictures inside. [Re: Psychedelicious]
    #11160393 - 09/30/09 11:36 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

As long as myc is growing and nothing else is, I would still be patient.


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Offlinescrotesmcgrotes
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Re: Very, very slow WBS jars. Pictures inside. [Re: scrotesmcgrotes]
    #11160399 - 09/30/09 11:36 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

and yes, shaking after inoculation can cause slow growth if you inoculated with multispore


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Invisiblemyco_mikey_mo
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Re: Very, very slow WBS jars. Pictures inside. [Re: scrotesmcgrotes]
    #11160402 - 09/30/09 11:37 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

after inoculation dont shake. kind of do a roll and tumble move. works better. patience is a virture. just wait...you have nothing to lose


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Offlineoxalic32
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Re: Very, very slow WBS jars. Pictures inside. [Re: scrotesmcgrotes]
    #11160407 - 09/30/09 11:37 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

scrotesmcgrotes said:
and yes, shaking after inoculation can cause slow growth if you inoculated with multispore




If he did MS id say its right on time.


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OfflinePsychedelicious
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Re: Very, very slow WBS jars. Pictures inside. [Re: oxalic32]
    #11160480 - 09/30/09 11:47 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

So it's probably due to the multispore nature and the fact that I -really- shook up the grains after inoculation? I had figured it'd slow it down (I read a thread from RR about it RIGHT after I inoculated, how annoying is that to discover?) but not by weeks!

I mean, I'm grateful - I tell those little myc-puffs good morning and good night every day, and love it. However, I want them to propagate! :wink:


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<metatron> i dont think the surface area of a mushroom is quite ideal to administer psychoactive compounds anally


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InvisibleCitricM
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Re: Very, very slow WBS jars. Pictures inside. [Re: Psychedelicious]
    #11160491 - 09/30/09 11:49 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

You never simmered your grain, which is the step we use to add the correct moisture content.  This would explain the slow growth.

To the other posters, I always shake after inoculation.  My jars are done in under a week from MS.

I would shake those jars.  Getting the myc off the bottom of the glass will take a little beating, but I'm sure you'll manage =)


--------------------
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Magash:  I noticed my contams were in the shape of fingers :whack:
Hyphae:  Yes  "Loss of moisture from the substrate"  is not a casing trigger.  :cuckoo:

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Edited by Citric (09/30/09 11:56 PM)


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InvisibleCitricM
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Re: Very, very slow WBS jars. Pictures inside. [Re: Psychedelicious]
    #11160575 - 09/30/09 11:58 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Psychedelicious said:
- I've had them at ideal temperatures (71-74ish degrees) for the whole two weeks.




I always use 80-82 as well.  If you are prepping your grain correctly, incubating at those temps(Which are optimal, not 71-74) will not be an issue with bacteria!


--------------------
Self Healing lid tek ** Update 10.17.17 **
Mini casing pictures: Pins to harvest
Cup O' Shrooms
Magash:  I noticed my contams were in the shape of fingers :whack:
Hyphae:  Yes  "Loss of moisture from the substrate"  is not a casing trigger.  :cuckoo:

My final Grow!


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Invisibledancefloordale
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Re: Very, very slow WBS jars. Pictures inside. [Re: Citric]
    #11160770 - 10/01/09 12:23 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, I also shake right after inoculation.

It distributes the spores/LC up very nice initially.

If done correctly you will not even have to shake your jars until you are ready to spawn.


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OfflinePsychedelicious
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Re: Very, very slow WBS jars. Pictures inside. [Re: Psychedelicious]
    #11162365 - 10/01/09 09:02 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

As usual, a lot of conflicting information. There are tons of posts talking about how 74-81 degrees is the optimal range, after which point growth slows off - the inside of the jars is usually 2-4 degrees hotter than the incubation area temperature, which would mean incubating at 81 degrees is a no-no.

So who am I to believe?

Also, same with shaking after inoculation. It is said that due to how mycellial cells mate with one another after germination of spores, that it's best to let them stick together up until about 30% due to the mating process to form rhizomorphic couples, and then shake to distribute the already mated cells - not before.

Again, I'm hearing the exact opposite here.

As for simmering - tons of people simply 24 hour soak and have far quicker colonization than I am seeing - so it's obviously not the reason (or at least the primary reason) for my slow growth. My grains were fully expanded, so I don't believe that it makes a difference. Simmering simply gets the job done faster due to the heat allowing a quicker aquatic infusion into the core seed material. If they're expanded fully, they're full of moisture... it doesn't matter how you get there.

So I'm hearing a lot of confliction which is bringing me more confusion than I started with. Gah.


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<metatron> i dont think the surface area of a mushroom is quite ideal to administer psychoactive compounds anally


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OfflineMLBjammer
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Re: Very, very slow WBS jars. Pictures inside. [Re: Psychedelicious]
    #11162480 - 10/01/09 09:58 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I always incubate grain jars at around 78 F, as their internal heat will raise that temperature 2-4 degrees higher.  You might not have had a very potent (or old or freshly-made) spore syringe, which would account for the slow growth.  As far as shaking, I shake after inoculation to distribute the inoculant a little more evenly, then at around 40% growth to again speed up the process, then once more 24 hours before spawning/casing to check for any hidden contams--grain jars will not recover if there are contams.

Growers have their own methods, but the main point is to successfully grow shrooms.  You have a good start there


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OfflineNineInchNails
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Re: Very, very slow WBS jars. Pictures inside. [Re: MLBjammer]
    #11162498 - 10/01/09 10:05 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

How did you rig your lids? How many holes and what size?

If the WBS dries out then growth will be slow. I never boil or simmer my WBS and you don't need to. Rinse, soak 24hrs, rinse, dry til little-to-none sticks to your hand, load jars, and PC.

If you have too many holes that are too big then that could be the problem. That or you may have allowed your WBS to dry too much before loading your jars.


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OfflineChasawah
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Re: Very, very slow WBS jars. Pictures inside. [Re: NineInchNails]
    #11162516 - 10/01/09 10:12 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I did 2 jars with coffee, they werent showing untill last night, and it was 1 of them and the myc was like a centimeter across, and hasnt grown much overnight...

Probly the coffee, because the other 9 jars made the same without coffee...

Probly going to ditch them because id rather have those 2 jars for another batch instead of them being held up for a while... if you have more spores that is


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InvisibleHerbal_Elixer
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Re: Very, very slow WBS jars. Pictures inside. [Re: Psychedelicious]
    #11162527 - 10/01/09 10:17 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Pick a TEK and roll with it.. There's a hundred ways to build a house, but you'll never build one using 100 different blue prints. Everything you need is on this site, as long as you pick one and follow it exactly, everything will work out fine.

Back to your original question about slow growth, that is part of the learning curve. It is up to you to refine a process suited to your resources, based on your experience. For instance, I am on several grows, and I am just now seeing aggressive WBS colonization in my spawn. But the best bet and answer here is solely that this is normal MS noc up, you'll be fine. Once 30% happens and you shake, it will be no time at all.


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InvisibleHerbal_Elixer
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Re: Very, very slow WBS jars. Pictures inside. [Re: Herbal_Elixer]
    #11162587 - 10/01/09 10:40 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

lol.. let me give you a good reason to just pick a TEK and follow it, based on the fact I just adjusted one myself.. and problems.

I used this WBS Spawn Bag TEK to make 12 bags. Notice it says to let drain for 6 hours. Well, I did the first 6 bags like that, then I started thinking they looked too wet, so I let the WBS drain for 12 hours for the last 6 bags. Well, a couple days ago I had a few bags at 30% and gave them a shake. They are fully recovered and aggressively growing. I also kept a log of each bag noting the processes I used. The other 6 bags are only at 10-15% colonized.. guess which ones are doing better.. The ones I followed the TEK exactlty with (the 6 hour drain ones). Had I not used the other "conflicting info" and applied it to a TEK and just stuck to this TEK exactly, I would have all 12 at the same level.

Another note, I did 5 more bags using a MS syringe.. these are showing nothing yet. The above 12 bags were all LC's @ 2cc's each.


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OfflinePsychedelicious
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Re: Very, very slow WBS jars. Pictures inside. [Re: NineInchNails]
    #11162975 - 10/01/09 12:26 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I have two screwdriver-sized holes in the top - one was used for inoculation, one is the gas exchange hole. Nothing is covering them except a loose layer of cellophane, as sort of a weak dust cover (not for contaminate protection really, my tyvex is doing good).

One thing I was wondering is if I didn't PC them long enough? I had done two seperate "cooks". The first two jars show NO growth whatsoever, and I cooked those at a lesser duration than the second two jars which both now show growth.

I even opened one of the first jars as a "sacrifice" in a closed area to expose it to airborne contams, and closed it up again to see what happened so I could learn from it. However, it hasn't begun to contaminate either - it still smells like WBS. I'm thinking I didnt kill nearly enough endospores in the first two jars, thus nothing is really taking hold on the grains - and the second two jars might be taking a while due to having high natural endospore counts still in them?

Any thoughts?

PS - I did 90 minutes, but I was new to using the PC and I don't think the first cook was at 15 psi for nearly as long as I thought it was. That's what I mean by the above.


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<metatron> i dont think the surface area of a mushroom is quite ideal to administer psychoactive compounds anally


Edited by Psychedelicious (10/01/09 12:27 PM)


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OfflinePsychedelicious
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Re: Very, very slow WBS jars. Pictures inside. [Re: Psychedelicious]
    #11169315 - 10/02/09 01:22 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Allo?


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<metatron> i dont think the surface area of a mushroom is quite ideal to administer psychoactive compounds anally


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