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Re: single-payer shot down [Re: doom876]
    #11157149 -

Quote:
They are the middle men that tale one out ov every three dollars in health care.


Where do you get that statistic?  I was looking it up trying to find their profit margins and I found 2-5% not 33%.

(also, rewarding those that do well is not synonymous with cutting the fat)
(and yes, I was denied a good eduction because of where I lived - I was denied the choice of where to go to school)

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Re: single-payer shot down [Re: DieCommie]
    #11157364 -

I've heard it on the news and Bill Mahre a few times. 3-5% profit margins is obviously false considering their obscene profits.

Edited by doom876 (09/30/09 02:27 PM)

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Re: single-payer shot down [Re: doom876]
    #11157902 -

Well its not obvious to me.  I did some quick google searching and couldn't find any reference to the statistic you mentioned.  I can only conclude its made up (not even Microsoft has profit margins that high - 33% is crazy high).  I would love for some evidence against the widespread figure of 2-5%, I would love to jump on the hate the insurance companies bandwagon (I really would).  But Im not gonna do it based off a second hand quote from Bill Maher.

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Re: single-payer shot down [Re: DieCommie]
    #11158004 -

Don't look at their profit margin, look at how much an insurance salesmen makes, then look at how much Doctors make. Who deals with them? Individuals don't. That is the problem. They only offer healthcare to businesses. Try buying your own insurance and they basically tell you to fuck off. What kind of market is that?

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Re: single-payer shot down [Re: lazyfingers]
    #11158076 -

lazyfingers said:
Don't look at their profit margin, look at how much an insurance salesmen makes, then look at how much Doctors make. Who deals with them? Individuals don't. That is the problem. They only offer healthcare to businesses. Try buying your own insurance and they basically tell you to fuck off. What kind of market is that?


There we go, a good mindset


--------------------

Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)

Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.

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Re: single-payer shot down [Re: lazyfingers]
    #11158080 -

Hmm... so its not the insurance companies making the obscene profits its the doctors and salesmen?  I looked it up on and the mean income of an insurance salesmen is about 40k, that is alot of money I agree they shouldn't make that much.  (I avoid salesmen at all costs because they are rip offs)  You think doctors should be paid less too?  They have student loan debt, lost employment time while in school and high malpractice premiums.  How much do you think a doctor should make?

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Re: single-payer shot down [Re: doom876]
    #11158085 -

I didnt read through all the posts but I have a few things to say.  When you get a job and are lucky to get one with the Health care option, you are going to be paying ALOT (usually) and then if you have a family its even worst.  Then let not forget about the issue of HMO and PPO (watch John Q).  Plus the problem if you never use it, most companies do not lower you premium for less claims like auto ins. does.

All in all there ARE issues with health ins in America.  It is way over priced to care for the health of the American people. 

Let me put it this way.  I had a freak accident while golfing, that knocked out 5 of my teeth.  I have ins. that wife and I pay alot for, and I still had to pay over $2,000 for and ran into other problems, ie I had to get roots extracted, HAD to get temp teeth to cover the sockets before my partial denture.

Now, I understand that my ins wont assist for teeth implants for that is extra.  But they would only help pay for either one partial denture or the temp teeth.  not both, which BOTH are needed.

Also when the accident FIRST happened I needed stitches, paid the ER and thought I was done, then...I got a fucking bill in the mail for the fucking specialist on duty during that time, WHO NEVER FUCKING SAW ME!! (Double dipping bastards)

Anyways, not sure that all makes sense, but my wife and I do pay for ins.  and its not cheap, and since Doctors charge off the wall prices aswell as double dipping, it saves you alot but still costs you a CRAP load!

Ugh....sorry....I'll shut up now:doh:


--------------------
chronosync said:
dont fuck around.
do it right.
try again.
"You cant stretch nature, give it time, it will come.  Be patient."

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Re: single-payer shot down [Re: DieCommie]
    #11158226 -

DieCommie said:
Hmm... so its not the insurance companies making the obscene profits its the doctors and salesmen?  I looked it up on and the mean income of an insurance salesmen is about 40k, that is alot of money I agree they shouldn't make that much.  (I avoid salesmen at all costs because they are rip offs)  You think doctors should be paid less too?  They have student loan debt, lost employment time while in school and high malpractice premiums.  How much do you think a doctor should make?


You know, the money trickles UP. The economy doesn't follow the same law as the rain, it's in fact a mystery spot.


--------------------

Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)

Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.

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Re: single-payer shot down [Re: doom876]
    #11158239 -

doom876 said:
Yup, in the Senate. It's nice to know our elected officials have the lobbyists, insurance companies, big pharma, and the like in their thoughts.



I guess you're unaware this bill was to support big pharma and the man at 1600 has plenty of lobbyists on staff


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: single-payer shot down [Re: Taco Chef]
    #11158257 -

novumorganum said:
only in one of the 5 health bills right now. 3 of the remaining 4 bills have a public option; there will be some form of a public option in the final bill the president signs.



you're assuming that they'll pass a health bill with a public option,
though it's not unprecedented for one of these bills o be buried into
a farm bill in the near future


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: single-payer shot down [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11158264 -

Prisoner#1 said:
novumorganum said:
only in one of the 5 health bills right now. 3 of the remaining 4 bills have a public option; there will be some form of a public option in the final bill the president signs.



you're assuming that they'll pass a health bill with a public option,
though it's not unprecedented for one of these bills o be buried into
a farm bill in the near future


makes me ill


--------------------

Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)

Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.

Edited by doom876 (09/30/09 04:26 PM)

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Re: single-payer shot down [Re: doom876]
    #11158311 -

doom876 said:
You know, the money trickles UP. The economy doesn't follow the same law as the rain, it's in fact a mystery spot.


Ok, but the best I can find is that the money trickles up at 2-5% for health care insurance companies.  I truly do want to believe otherwise and will keep my eyes open for evidence.

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Re: single-payer shot down [Re: DieCommie]
    #11158323 -

That doesn't matter. That's just a statistic that could be used to mask their profit! What does 2-5% mean to me? SHIT. What does the trend of rising premiumms while wages haven't risen nearly as fast, along with rising profit(remember, profit is what they make on top of what they need to survive as a company)


--------------------

Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)

Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.

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Re: single-payer shot down [Re: doom876]
    #11158453 -

so i was watching cspan this morning and a dude calls in explaining that a congressman only pays 7% of his gross income for his "cadillac" insurance, while he and his wife who only make 60 grand pay around 13% of their gross income. he then went on to explain that he pays nearly twice or more for simple procedures.

pretty sure the figures are floating around that private insurance administration costs are around 20-30% while socialized systems are around 7-13%.

btw how do you legislate competition?


--------------------
Everybody's a ninja...

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Re: single-payer shot down [Re: doom876]
    #11158764 -

doom876 said:
That doesn't matter. That's just a statistic that could be used to mask their profit! What does 2-5% mean to me? SHIT. What does the trend of rising premiumms while wages haven't risen nearly as fast, along with rising profit(remember, profit is what they make on top of what they need to survive as a company)


so let's throw out the statistics and use anecdotal evidence to support our claims. right?

this did actually happen to my insurance rates this year. i'll tell you why though. AEP, who provides my primary plan, is in a hiring freeze and is currently in the process of huge budget cuts due to the recession and being forced to restructure many of its power plants to comply with new cap and trade laws. i just got a letter about this a few days ago. it's not the insurance, it's AEP which will take more money out of everyone's paycheck each month (i think 4%) for the same coverage.

i'm sure some people's health insurance rates were raised by the insurance companies too. it's what happens when you're in a recession. people lose their jobs, and health insurance is one of the first things they drop, so insurance co's have to raise their rates to cover their operational expenses and maintain profits. it's what happens in a recession.

and wow...think about what you said earlier about rewarding people. you think the government should be in charge of handing out rewards to people who do their jobs well? hm....where have i heard that one before..


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Re: single-payer shot down [Re: JT]
    #11158935 -

i'm sure some people's health insurance rates were raised by the insurance companies too. it's what happens when you're in a recession. people lose their jobs, and health insurance is one of the first things they drop, so insurance co's have to raise their rates to cover their operational expenses and maintain profits. it's what happens in a recession.

and wow...think about what you said earlier about rewarding people. you think the government should be in charge of handing out rewards to people who do their jobs well? hm....where have i heard that one before..
They drop people so that the smaller number of workers in the giant insurance companies will work harder while they don't have to pay who they ditch. It's all about streamlining, you know, untill they can get a computer to do it all with no low level workers.

Call me daft, the first looks like Stalin(who communists generally dislike) and the last looks like Marx. Stalin was even removed from Vladamir Lennon's tomb, he killed more people then Hitler. He was a fucker. Just associating an idea, a great idea, of rewarding the competent, since your free market works to slow, with communism doesn't make it any less good.


--------------------

Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)

Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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