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Offlinefundamentalchair
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Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary (Update 1-16-10) * 16
    #11140509 - 09/28/09 12:37 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

First off, I would like to state that I bring no information to this thread. All information below that I have posted has been obtained from Easier Than Cubes!!! courtesy of Cervantes and many other shroomery members. This is mean more as a FAQ, and does not touch on the subject conclusively. Please see the above linked thread for further details. I make no claims to the accuracy of any of the statements below. Quite honestly, I've probably misstated/misrepresented/lied in the contents of this post; so sue me. If you believe the accuracy of any of this FAQ to be faulty, please PM/post in this or the above linked thread and I'll be sure to update it.

This post is meant to cover the cultivation and frutitation of sclerotia producing fungi.

Sclerotium -noun, plural sclerotia: a vegetative, resting food-storage body in certain higher fungi, composed of a compact mass of hardened mycelia.

English, please?
Sclerotia are hard bodies ("stones") that grow invitro which can contain psilocin/psilocybin in some species of fungi. Due to them growing in the substrate, they are reportedly very easy to cultivate and rather 'stealthy'. Fresh, they are reported as having a 'nutty' flavor and consistency, with a much more pleasant taste than P. cubensis. Once dried, it is suggested to grind up into small pieces or powder as the body is very dense and difficult to chew/digest in larger pieces.

What psilocin/psilocybin containing fungi species/strains produce sclerotia?
Psilocybe galindoi, A.K.A. Atlanta #7 (ATL#7)
Psilocybe mexicana, including strains "A", "B", and "Jalisco"
Psilocybe tampanensis
Psilocibe Atlantis: Note, at one point some P. galindoi has been sold as P. Atlantis, some confusion surrounds this species. This is not the same species as ATL#7.

Where can I find prints/syringes of these species?
Sporeworks has some of these available as both print/syringe, although with the growing popularity of the Easier Than Cubes!!! thread, supplies of some seem to be running short. At least one species has been reported out of stock/in stock/out of stock since the start of that thread. If what you are looking for is not there, keep checking back or look at some of the other sponsored vendors.

How potent are sclerotia?
Fresh, sclerotia is twice as potent as fresh P. cubensis.
Dry, sclerotia two thirds as potent as dry P. cubensis.

The discrepancy of scaling between fresh to dry is due to the low(er) water content of sclerotia vs. a fruit body. While 90% of the mass of a fresh fruit is water, only 70% of sclerotia is water. However, the actual dry mass of sclerotia contains less (2/3rds) the psilocin/psilocybin of a fruit body. The fruit bodys of a sclerotia forming fungi are reported to be notably more potent than P. cubensis.

The fruit bodies of psilocybe mexicana are reported to have around the same potency as pan cyans.

I can get shrooms from these?
Yes, sclerotia producing fungi can be fruited, although difficultly varies with species/strain. Often cultivation will produce either large amounts of fruit/sclerotia with diminished returns of the other. Some success has been had with waiting until sclerotia harvest to move into fruiting conditions to then produce fruiting conditions.

Are the bioassys to sclerotia like that of P. cubensis?
Not exactly. This varies by species/strain as well. Please see my notes below about each. If you know of any trip reports for these species/strains, please link or give a brief description so I can get a better description here.

Psilocybe mexicana: Reported to have a notable lack of nausea as well as a 'cleaner' trip. This is described as 'your trip going where you want to go, not where the shrooms want it to go'
Psilocybe tampanensis: are described as very cerebral highs, full of insight and mental exploration (the non-hallucinogenic kind). This sclerotium is responsible for the nickname of 'Philosophers Stones'.
Psilocybe galindoi: 'ATL 7 is  as visual and 'spiritual' as any fungus I have ever eaten. If you are looking for a mind fuck, here's your fungus.' -Cervantes
Psilocybe Atlantis: Clean trip, no nausea. Moderate body high, closed eye visuals quite powerful, open eye moderate. Cerebral high is quite intensive at times,not uncontrollable, but fairly strong. In the right mindset, I've had strong ego disassociation and some all-round mind-expanding perceptions. (Thanks Ego Questio!)

How long do these take to grow?
If done correctly, six weeks from inoculation you can be ready to harvest. This is the approximate time frame in which you would be expected to get your first cube flush, although this process takes much less work. Speculation is made that the longer the wait from inoculation to harvest, the larger/more potent the sclerotia become. Also, the sclerotia are reported to be kept invitro somewhere between 9-12 months before rotting. This give a much less time sensitive harvest interval from cubes.

What substrates can I cultivate sclerotia on?
Success has been had with RGS, Rye Berries, WBS and PF Cakes. Rye berries and RGS (any untreated grass seed, really) are reported to have the greatest success, with WBS not quite as good but still respectable. According to mycotopia, mexicanna like pure millet the best, however the accuracy of that statement has not been tested externally. Please note that whatever substrate is used will most likely become attached firmly to the sclerotia; it would be suggested to not use any substrate you would be uncomfortable ingesting.

The suggested (grain) mixture is a 4:1:1 RGS:water:coffee (by volume) with a pinch of gypsum and some unused coffee grounds tossed in for luck/tradition/ph/funny looks.

For any regular substrate grain (ie. not RGS), prepare as normal.

Got a tek for that substrate?
Me? No. I told you earlier, I'm an idiot. Although RogerRabbit has a nice one that can be found @ RR's RGS Preperation.

If you're too lazy to clicky clicky on the linky linky, here is a quick abstract...
Fill qt jar w/ 300 ml of RGS.
Add 150 ml water/coffee mix (you want 1/2 strength of regualar by directions of coffee. Figure it out).
Put on lid (no hole) and shake.
wait an hour.
shake it again.
Replace lid with hole + filter lid. PC/noc/etc like any other grain jar.

What about inoculation
Inoculation can take the form of spore syringes, LC, agar wedges, etc. It is strongly suggested to start practicing agar/LC/cloning so large numbers of prints/syringes do not need to be purchased. Until the shroomery members start producing prints themselves, prints/syringes are considered rare (ie. expensive, frequently running out of stock through vendors).

Eek! These prints/syringes are expensive/out of stock
Yes. These species are notably difficult to fruit (difficult varies with species/strain). This makes it more difficult for vendors and shroomerites alike to get prints to sell/trade. As more people are able to successfully fruit these, more prints will become available and the price will drop. Patience young padawan.

Great! now I know what to grow them on, what do I grow them in?
Jars (the bigger, the better) and growing bags have both been reported to have good success. For jar sizes, it is strongly recommended to use quart or larger; half pints are almost completely useless, and pints aren't much better.

Okay, I got a jar/bag nocked up, what now?
Wait, mostly. If using LC as a inoculation vector, it is suggested to shake almost immediately to increase the growth speed. Shaking after mycelial growth (specifically after sclerotia formation) is a no-no. These species/strains mycelial growth are much less robust in terms of the shock from being shaken and may cause temporary or permanent retardation of sclerotia formation in both size and quantity.

Can I put these into a bulk substrate?
Perhaps, but there are some considerations.

First and foremost, whatever substrate is used will likely become permanently embedded into the sclerotia body to some degree or another, so make sure to use a bulk that you are comfortable eating. Quite frankly, I'm not down with eating any c/hpoo, I don't care how long its sat in the sun.

Breaking up the mycellium (specifically after sclerotia formation) may cause problems for further sclerotia formation. It is plausible to have sclerotia formation before full colonization. This however may be a possible way to help provoke fruit formation.

All in all, if you want more sclerotia, it is easier and safer just to knock up some more grain. If you want fruit bodies, casing straight grain and placing into fruiting conditions can produce fruit bodies.

Okay, I grew some stones. How do I harvest them?
To pick as you grow, get some diggin in and pull them out from the top up. I would suggest a sterile fork/spoon as digging implements.

To harvest a container at a time, putting some chicken wire or similar mesh (holes bigger than grain, smaller than stones) over a frame and shaking should take a lot of work out of diggin for them. Think like searching for fossils or stones with a sifter. (Thanks Doc_T!)

What are some of the characteristics of this mycellium?
Mycellium from these species are notably not white. The mycellium is often beige, tan, brown, yellow, and various other shades. Sclerotia formation is noted as the formation of beige blotches sometimes with dark brown and yellow streaks in it. One thing of note is that after consuming the sclerotia body, the mycellium will often show many other colors including but not limited to, red, purple, green, orange, and often colors of a pastel nature. At this time, mycelial growth is sometimes reported to be seen by the naked eye.

How can I go about fruiting these?
For mushroom production, notably higher levels of FAE are required (in comparison to cubes) and a high humidity is an absolute requirement. Casing over the top of sclerotia harvested grain placed into fruiting conditions have found success. Patience of a patron saint may be required, as some species/strains have taken a month or longer after being placed into fruiting conditions to pin. the fruiting difficulty of these has been compared to that of pans cyans.

Anything else I should know?
Yeah, probably. Quite frankly, I'm sick of typing for the moment and I can't think of anything I missed off the top of my head. If you have anything to add, please post it either here or in the Easier Than Cubes!!! thread or feel free to PM me. I will be updating this FAQ when more information becomes available.

Noes/links
Easier Than Cubes!!!
P. Mexicana-A, P. Mexicana-Jalisco & P. Galindoi-ATL#7 Fruiting Pictures: Great pics/guide on fruiting sclerotia strains. This dude is THE MAN. Beer, sushi, and fruiting stones; almost enough for me to consider going gay. (Thanks Stonesun!)
Bulk psilocybin/psilocin production via scelortia TEK (PICS): Nice writeup of a start-to-finish sclerotia run. (Thanks OverUnity33!)

Special thanks to...
Cervantes, Doc_T, RogerRabbit, Cyber, Workman, Lizard King, Shrink, Mephistophelian, OverUnity33, and all all other current and future shroomerites who are helping to keep these species/strains alive.


--------------------
semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit


Sclerotia FAQ... If ya ain't got any stones, grow some.

Will work for Laetiporus sulphureus culture/spores (or any other Laetiporus actually), :pm: me.

My Trade list.

Ghetto Tek: Auto FAE & Light


Edited by fundamentalchair (01/16/10 11:17 AM)


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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary [Re: fundamentalchair]
    #11140576 - 09/28/09 12:46 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

Nice compilation of sclerotia info.

:scaryshroom::congrats:


13:mushroom2:


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OfflineCubieMcCuberton

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Re: Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary [Re: fundamentalchair]
    #11140582 - 09/28/09 12:47 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

For sure, good shit man :thumbup:


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Offlinesgaltair
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Re: Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary [Re: CubieMcCuberton]
    #11140946 - 09/28/09 01:55 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

Fantastic :laugh: Thanks for compiling some of this information.


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OfflineDrWhite
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Re: Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary [Re: sgaltair]
    #11141031 - 09/28/09 02:12 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

Awesome, I might just consider trying this!


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OfflineDrFeelGreat
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Re: Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary [Re: DrWhite]
    #11141843 - 09/28/09 07:04 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

Awsome Thank you!!!!


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Re: Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary [Re: DrFeelGreat]
    #11142150 - 09/28/09 09:44 AM (12 years, 27 days ago)

Sick. I suggest that if you want this strain to survive, and you get some pins, only send prints to people who have successfully grown pan cyans.


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Re: Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary [Re: The Centre]
    #11142179 - 09/28/09 09:59 AM (12 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

The Centre said:only send prints to people who have successfully grown pan cyans.




Why? It's supposed to be easier to grow than cubes. You inoculate a jar and let it grown in the jar with the lid... How hard could that be?

I have never grown pan cyans, but I could most certainly do it along with sclerotia producing species.


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OfflineCzo
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Re: Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary [Re: daytripper05]
    #11142189 - 09/28/09 10:03 AM (12 years, 27 days ago)

I noticed that Cervantes mentioned just harvesting the sclerotia that he needed when he needed it (presumably leaving the jars mostly intact), but I've also read different accounts saying that stone production happens throughout the substrate. Is it truly possible to just leave a jar, pick a few stones from in the jar, and let the jar keep growing?


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Re: Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary [Re: Czo]
    #11142210 - 09/28/09 10:13 AM (12 years, 27 days ago)

If, so how do you pick the stones if they grown inside the substrate? Or, by the time the stones are harvested, do you always visibly see them in the outside of the substrate? As it seems, pics certainly do not do this species justice.


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OfflineSillySiteMan
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Re: Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary [Re: daytripper05]
    #11142454 - 09/28/09 11:30 AM (12 years, 27 days ago)

Nice recap! This strain will be one of my next endevours


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OfflineStratosFear
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Re: Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary [Re: SillySiteMan]
    #11143397 - 09/28/09 02:42 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

This one deserves a <bump>


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Re: Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary [Re: CubieMcCuberton]
    #11144827 - 09/28/09 06:10 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Why? It's supposed to be easier to grow than cubes. You inoculate a jar and let it grown in the jar with the lid... How hard could that be?




Sclerotia do not generate spores, only the mushies do. In order for more prints to be traded, there need to be people who can fruit these bad boys and print them.

I wouldn't treat these things as if they were on the endangered species list, but they're defiantly more rare/expensive than a B+ for example.

At this time, sporeworks has ALT#7 P. Mexicana Jalisco and P. tampanensis in stock. Personally, I'm holding out for a P. Meicana A.


--------------------
semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit


Sclerotia FAQ... If ya ain't got any stones, grow some.

Will work for Laetiporus sulphureus culture/spores (or any other Laetiporus actually), :pm: me.

My Trade list.

Ghetto Tek: Auto FAE & Light


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Offlinefundamentalchair
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Re: Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary [Re: fundamentalchair]
    #11144926 - 09/28/09 06:27 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

I noticed that Cervantes mentioned just harvesting the sclerotia that he needed when he needed it (presumably leaving the jars mostly intact), but I've also read different accounts saying that stone production happens throughout the substrate. Is it truly possible to just leave a jar, pick a few stones from in the jar, and let the jar keep growing?




Due to the mycellium of these being fairly susceptible to shock, stone production after a partial harvest may be retarded to some degree or another. I would guess that only doing a 'partial harvest' after the stones are grown out, or at least understand that that jar may not continue to grow.

At some point, the mycellium will outrun its ability to produce stones from simply consuming all of the nutrients/water available to it. As a storage container (sclerotia, I mean), should stay alive and fresh in the jar for quite some time. Of course, you can dry it out and store it just like any other shroom.

Quote:

If, so how do you pick the stones if they grown inside the substrate? Or, by the time the stones are harvested, do you always visibly see them in the outside of the substrate? As it seems, pics certainly do not do this species justice.




With a crowbar, pick axe, and three sticks of dynamite. If those materials aren't available, I'd suggest using your hands. For the pick-as-you-grow method, I can only imagine that using a grow bag would be easier than using a jar, as you should be able to get to a 'side stone' easier and with disrupting less mycelium.

With jars having a high surface area and stones able to grow much larger than your jar, some should be visible from the outside, however all may not.

While someone who has actually worked with these will probably be able to give you a more definitive answer, at least I bring a decently educated guess.


--------------------
semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit


Sclerotia FAQ... If ya ain't got any stones, grow some.

Will work for Laetiporus sulphureus culture/spores (or any other Laetiporus actually), :pm: me.

My Trade list.

Ghetto Tek: Auto FAE & Light


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Re: Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary [Re: fundamentalchair]
    #11145498 - 09/28/09 08:14 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

beautiful summary! i really wonder why growing mushrooms became so popular while truffles are hardly known? its harder to fruit them to share prints, legally but the amount of work required to grow them for personal use... i love it.

i started my first grow with jalisco and atl7 yesterday. i hope to add as much info on the subject as possible.

thanks fundamentalchair for the privlage of using this info in the tek!


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Re: Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary [Re: LitCloset]
    #11145942 - 09/28/09 09:39 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

LitCloset said:
i really wonder why growing mushrooms became so popular while truffles are hardly known?




Could it be because truffles are hardly known? :facepalm:


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Re: Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary [Re: Doc_T] * 1
    #11145958 - 09/28/09 09:43 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

oh doc t.... i was wondering why when mushrooms became popular mid century all the pionering growers focused on growing out full mushrooms instead of truffles. hoffman discoverd the actives in mushrooms from ps. mexicana. im guessing its because the original times (?) report discussed full grown mushroom fruit bodies..

turd :tongue:


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Re: Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary [Re: LitCloset]
    #11146034 - 09/28/09 09:56 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

Probably because nobody thought you could grow them. You can't really grow the other kind of truffles, or couldn't until recently.
So they looked at growing mushrooms, then discovered sclerotia cultivation as an accidental byproduct of that.
Is my guess.

Edit- we should move this conversation over to the other thread, or this one will end as long as that one.


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OfflineLitCloset
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Re: Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary [Re: Doc_T]
    #11146090 - 09/28/09 10:06 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

no, i like your reasoning. when i frist heard about growing truffles i though the same thing. impossible ive never heard of it done...


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Re: Sclerotia FAQ - 'Easier than Cubes!!!' summary [Re: LitCloset]
    #11146109 - 09/28/09 10:08 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

fundamentalchair said:
just harvesting the sclerotia that he needed when he needed it (presumably leaving the jars mostly intact),





If you had a jar that would let you pop the whole colonized block out, you could do it that way.
I think you'd be better off to just go ahead and harvest a whole jar at once and store the stones, though.

Quote:

fundamentalchair said:
how do you pick the stones if they grown inside the substrate?




I thought about making a wire mesh screen, like looking for fossils.


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Edited by Doc_T (09/28/09 10:26 PM)


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