zzripz said:

Do you dispute that Mazatec culture was influenced by Catholic religion? The religion of their 'conquerers', yes or no?

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No.
But having read texts from tribal societies that existed prior to any Christian influence, I will say that the themes of good/bad are still pretty clear cut. That if you're bad, you're going to end up in an underworld that isn't going to be pretty. A place where the rulers are tricksters who take pleasure in your pain. And every time there is an underworld, there are certain behaviors which will land you there.

Tribal daily life was inseparable from the religion. It wasn't something they went to church for once a week, it was infused in everything they did. They knew what behaviors were OK to do, and which were not. And just to expand on this idea of no sex, I'll try to broaden the viewpoint from my readings. The Maya spiritual leaders would observe fasting and abstinence from sex as a part of ceremonies and rituals. In doing so, they were provided knowledge that was not given to others... sacred knowledge. So in this way, sex was seen as an impediment to sacred knowledge.

Despite this, these leaders would still have wives. It was simply known that should they be seeking sacred knowledge, they needed to live accordingly. They needed to give penance and honor to their Gods. Depending on what was being sought, the duration varied, lasting anywhere from 1 week to 1 year. You can find themes like this over and over again

Kickle said:

zzripz said:

Do you dispute that Mazatec culture was influenced by Catholic religion? The religion of their 'conquerers', yes or no?

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Quote:

No.
But having read texts from tribal societies that existed prior to any Christian influence, I will say that the themes of good/bad are still pretty clear cut. That if you're bad, you're going to end up in an underworld that isn't going to be pretty. A place where the rulers are tricksters who take pleasure in your pain. And every time there is an underworld, there are certain behaviors which will land you there.

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Yes> I am not trying to paint all indigenous people's cultures in a romantic way. This is a great reply we can all learn from and open up the exploration
As faras I am aware the undersworld as a place of punishment comes from male-dominated cultures. Ie., that although patriarchal cultures can be seen clearly to be in the big religions there also are strong elements of male-dominant tribal cultures where women are treated badly. and often are not allowed to partake of sacred plants!
In Goddess mythology however, the 'underworld/Death' is her Womb--a place of healing and regeneration. There is no separation between nature/matter and spirit

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Tribal daily life was inseparable from the religion. It wasn't something they went to church for once a week, it was infused in everything they did. They knew what behaviors were OK to do, and which were not. And just to expand on this idea of no sex, I'll try to broaden the viewpoint from my readings. The Maya spiritual leaders would observe fasting and abstinence from sex as a part of ceremonies and rituals. In doing so, they were provided knowledge that was not given to others... sacred knowledge. So in this way, sex was seen as an impediment to sacred knowledge.

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I would say the Mayan civilization was very warrior-based and sacrifical based right?

"MYTHOLOGICAL GODS

The ancient Maya had a complex pantheon of deities whom they worshipped and offered human sacrifices. Rulers were believed to be descendants of the Mayan gods and their blood was the ideal sacrifice, either through personal bloodletting or the sacrifice of captives of royal blood.

The Maya vision of the universe is divided into multiple levels, above and below earth, positioned within the four directions of north, south, east and west. After death, the soul was believed to go to the Underworld, Xibalba (shee bal bah), a place of fright where sinister gods tested and tricked their unfortunate visitors."

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Despite this, these leaders would still have wives. It was simply known that should they be seeking sacred knowledge, they needed to live accordingly. They needed to give penance and honor to their Gods. Depending on what was being sought, the duration varied, lasting anywhere from 1 week to 1 year. You can find themes like this over and over again

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So your really saying that the Mazatec culture although invaded by Christian culture yet found affinity with it? Shared values --such as the bloody sacrifice of 'Jesus', the warnings of sexuality being 'Original Sin', of women being under men, and 'Devil' and 'hell' being also familiar?

This is why I like to question all this and go deeperner. How deep dya wanna go?

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I would say the Mayan civilization was very warrior-based and sacrifical based right?

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Quote:

"MYTHOLOGICAL GODS

The ancient Maya had a complex pantheon of deities whom they worshipped and offered human sacrifices. Rulers were believed to be descendants of the Mayan gods and their blood was the ideal sacrifice, either through personal bloodletting or the sacrifice of captives of royal blood.

The Maya vision of the universe is divided into multiple levels, above and below earth, positioned within the four directions of north, south, east and west. After death, the soul was believed to go to the Underworld, Xibalba (shee bal bah), a place of fright where sinister gods tested and tricked their unfortunate visitors."

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Quote:

So your really saying that the Mazatec culture although invaded by Christian culture yet found affinity with it? Shared values --such as the bloody sacrifice of 'Jesus', the warnings of sexuality being 'Original Sin', of women being under men, and 'Devil' and 'hell' being also familiar?

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OrgoneConclusion said:

Every culture that comes into contact with another culture is affected by it. This is unavoidable.

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