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Anonymous

Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: ]
    #1122465 - 12/08/02 06:31 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

You think theres no difference? The fact that alcohol has very little stigma, is not demonized and can be bought down the street is a difference. I promise.

People tend to feel shameful for being junkies, dopeheads, whatever due to the social programming that these substances are illegal, bad, deviant, etc. But not with alcohol.

That makes a huge difference, I PROMISE.


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Anonymous

Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: crazyman]
    #1123525 - 12/09/02 01:35 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

There's one thing I never understood and I hope someone clears it up for me. Is alcoholism something that can happen to anyone that drinks too much or is it genetic? Because I've only been drunk a dozen or so times in my life but I still have no idea if I could ever develop alcoholism. Or does it have to run in the family? Are there some people just more prone to it? I RARELY drink but when I do l like to get blasted. I don't know if I get to the point of "blacking out" because I always remember everything (no matter what drug I'm on). I really like to get really drunk. I think it's euphoric but last time I got drunk I still felt bored and like I wanted to take more but I ended up finishing the whole bottle. But I think I was just craving weed.


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InvisibleMr Wobblehead
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Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: ]
    #1123904 - 12/09/02 04:17 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not sure if there is a genetic factor to drug addiction. I think it's more nurture than nature.

Like for me, I grew up with an alcoholic father and a benzo addict mother. To me that was normality, so when i grew up to be normal means to do drugs until i'm blitzed.

Also the levels of abuse that i suffered from my parents provided the fuel for repression which addiction needs. If you've got nothing to repress then you won't have a need for addiction. However if you keep doing addictive drugs then you'll create problems which you'll then feel the need to repress thus creating addiction. Although i would think that an addiction of this type is easier to deal with and withdraw from.

For the person above who says that alcohol is the same as other drugs, it isn't. You can't get physically addicted to LSD. You can't die withdrawing from canabis. Every street You walk down doesn't have a bill board advertising heroin. Every shop doesn't have a window full of special offers for cocaine. Every bar hasn't got happy hour for E's. Every other TV advert isn't telling you your inadequate and stupid if you don't do meth.

In short, we are considered freaks for not drinking alcohol, while we are equally considered freaks for using less addictive drugs.

There is also the fact of toxin quantity to consider. When I was drinking, i would consume over 120 ounces of pure alcohol every week. That is 120 ounces of pure toxin. No other drug has anywhere near this quantity of toxic shit to deal with, and the body is radically altered by this. This is one of the reasons that alcohol is so addictive, because the change from using to non use is so extreme - so extreme it can kill!


Edited by Mr Wobblehead (12/09/02 04:19 AM)


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Offlinefrogsheath
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Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: Mr Wobblehead]
    #1124027 - 12/09/02 06:47 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Excellent points Mr. Wobblehead and Immaculate. We would be better off as a society if weed and shrooms were embraced and alcohol stygmatized. Babytripster, good question. I don't know, I would guess that you're not because you're asking it in the first place. Be careful though. It sounds like you have a tendency to overconsume. NEVER a good idea. Trust me. I use to think it was funny to stagger around and shit. The novelty has worn thin. I've been drinking for over 20 years. I've observed alcohol's effects for probably less than half that time. (Not proud of that last statement but it's pretty true.) I've seen what it can do. It's dangerous. Be careful. Like I said, I quit.


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InvisibleMakaveli
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Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: ] * 1
    #1125244 - 12/09/02 04:43 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I disagree with it being a disease.

By saying it is a disease is just a way to gain pitty for what you did to yourself.

You are the one who choose to drink everyday, now you have to deal with the consequences. I choose to do oxycontin and a whole slew of other pain killers daily. Now I have to dea with the ramifications of my actions. I don't go around saying I have a "disease" though. It's an addiction, that YOU put yourself in. No one else. Plain and simple.

----


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Offlinefrogsheath
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Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: frogsheath]
    #1126630 - 12/09/02 10:50 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I use to think getting plastered was the bomb. I didn't want to admit the fact that I couldn't really handle how fucking obliviated I got. Why? Because it's socially okay to get like that. I gladly paid the physical and mental price in deference of a "good time". Granted, if you're with the right people at the right place it can be fun. The more I did though I realized just how incapacitated one becomes under the influence. Let me tell you a few stories: One friend was a heavy drinker. Used to put away lots of beer. Cases by hisself. But he never got obnoxious. Was always cool to everyone. A big dude. He was great to have over. Well, he had a few dui's. Eventually his license was revoked. He knew he had a problem. He didn't stop though. One day he was getting ripped, sitting on a third floor porch railing. The next thing he knew he was paralyzed from the legs down --yeah he fell. I would say drinking had something to do with that. It happens like that.


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
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Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: frogsheath]
    #1126765 - 12/09/02 11:18 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

That's a horribly sad story, but I think that has as much to do with safety precaution as drinking too much. Reminds me of the drug commericial that blames weed for the kid shooting his friend in the face.

Personally I don't think you can call something a disease if the cure can be administered by locking you up in a room.


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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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Offlinefrogsheath
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Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #1127001 - 12/10/02 12:20 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I agree.  It had as much to do with just being careful as with being drunk.  Tell that to a drunk.  I disagree about it being a disease though.  Even if you're "cured" you still have to live in this society which promotes drinking, so you have to live with abstinence.  I'm not saying there aren't much worse diseases though.  Alcohol can kill directly and indirectly.  I don't know why I'm getting so worked up about it.  I guess it's cuz I drive a cab and I regularly deal with drunks who are trying to get home.  I often get stuck with some real winners.  No offence to people who drink and take cabs.  I heartily recommend that you do.  It's just that with the volume of fares I have I do get some doozies in there.  The majority are fine.  The few nuts are really something else.  I've had to literally throw people out.  I've had countless episodes with vomit.  Hell, I've taken cabs drunk myself and acted like an idiot --I've never vomited though.  And working nights I've seen some scary looking accidents which could only have been someone completely obliterated behind the wheel.  I've seen minivans doing 50 mph down the street with the horn blaring cuz the guy's head is on the wheel -cuz he's passed out.  Shit like that.  :crazy: 


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Anonymous

Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: ] * 1
    #1130894 - 12/11/02 02:21 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I think it is a ridiculous claim to say that the lack of stigma attached to alcohol as opposed to drugs is the difference between a disease and an addiction.


Edited by Fiend (12/11/02 02:22 AM)


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Offlinefrogsheath
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Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: ]
    #1131071 - 12/11/02 05:07 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

To be honest I'm not clear on the difference.  I think crazyman said it well -that you can't just quit and you're "cured" -as in addiction.  So, you will always have it in you even after you quit.  I presumed the term 'disease' was applied in this case  by society as a way of  not stigmatizing what it otherwise condoned --if that makes sense.  But that's probably wrong.  I'm just enthusiastic about staying sober. :smile: 


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InvisibleRipple
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Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: crazyman]
    #1132302 - 12/11/02 12:29 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Great Post!


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: frogsheath]
    #1132308 - 12/11/02 12:32 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I think that genetics have something to do with it.

For example, I drink fairly regularly, but for the most part I haven't been black out drunk for a few years. For me, it was never the least bit difficult, and I think it is because of the fact that alcohol is accepted, in my case.

I learned how to drink from my dad, who was always there with advice and shit and let me know when I was out of hand, and he was just there as an example.

But, with other substances, he was very opposed to them and told me in no uncertain times not to do them. I was left to make my own mistakes, without guidance, and as a result I'm now addicted to nicotine and had a pretty bad mental addiction with pot. Seriously, it took me a long time to be able to give up weed, which is something I simply had to do because it became a detroment to me.

I don't buy the attitude that it's socially acceptable to be out of your head fucked up on alcohol. Nobody likes a loud and obnoxious drunk, and those types of people have long been demonized by the media.

A beer commercial in which someone is simply drinking a beer and having a good time is not a license to get hammered.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #1132326 - 12/11/02 12:38 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Genetics definately have something to do with it.
I saw a documentary on TV where they were talking about monkies that live on some tropical touristy island. Apparently these monkies come and steal drinks all the time, they love drinking. Scientists have been studying them, and noticed some interesting patterns. They grouped them into several catagories depending on their drinking habits, ie. heavily alcoholic, moderately alcoholic, drink occasionally, don't drink at all, etc... and the percentages of monkies that fit into each group matched the percentages for humans almost identically. It would appear that your appreciation of alcohol, and your self control is determined at birth.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: Phluck]
    #1132410 - 12/11/02 01:09 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Pretty wacky stuff.
No monkey better try to take my beer.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: Phluck]
    #1132421 - 12/11/02 01:11 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I kind of went off on a seperate tangent in that last post, saying that I think it is genetic and then going on to describe why it's environmental....

O well. Just ignore me.




And keep the monkies away from my beer.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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Anonymous

Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: frogsheath]
    #1133894 - 12/12/02 01:25 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Naw, if not drinking doesn't mean you're cured of alcoholism than not using a drug you were totally addicted to doesn't mean you're cured of that addiction. If you're a person who drinks everyday because it makes you feel better and than you quit, and are still an alcoholic, than that is to say that if you're a heroin addict who shoots smack to feel better and quit you still have that monkey on your back.
Either way, the fact is that some people for whatever reasons, be it psychology, genetics, or whatever, have the propensity to use drugs as an escape from something. And once you develop that kind of relationship with any substance, that's it, you can't ever be a casual user of it again. And at the root of this behaviour is an addiction. I realize that alcoholism is classified as a disease and somehow fits into the criterea for that classification.
That doesn't negate the fact that everyone has a choice whether they drink or not. Alcoholics included. There are countless people who suffer from the affliction who haven't drank in 5, 10, 20 years. They choose not to.
So while alcoholism may be called a disease these days (I think that has more to do with insurance, health care, and political reasons than anything else), it is an addiction at it's root and to say otherwise is ridiculous.
And if substance abuse of other types is not considered a disease, that would obviously be a paradox due to the war on some drugs mentality.
Why am I writing all this? I don't know if I'm an alcoholic, but I've definitely had alcohol issues, 6 related arrests, countless arguments and fist fights, lost friendships, broken things, wasted money, poor decisions. Let's just say that when I have one drink, the next twelve hours are desicively shot. I've also had drug issues. To blame my behavior on a disease seems like a real lack of responsibility on my part. Because that's what all the shit was - my behavior. I did it. A disease didn't do it to me. And I can choose not to do it, just as anyone else can.


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Offlinefrogsheath
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Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: ]
    #1133906 - 12/12/02 01:50 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Well said Fiend. As I write this I'm listening to the ex-Husband's tune "I Have a Ball Each Time I Fall (off the Wagon)" followed by "Honky Tonk Heaven". This thread is great. I will reread it a few times as I reflect on the coming temptations to have just one Leff Beer (abbey ale from France) outta my Lady's fridge this holiday.
Your track record seems about equal to mine.


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InvisibleSouthernGulfStyle
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Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: frogsheath]
    #12899270 - 07/14/10 07:44 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

i wonder if this dude died???


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Awebig Faggot said " Nice fucking question, shivers blood.
Seriously, go." ahahah A prime example of getting mad through a computer


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Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: SouthernGulfStyle]
    #12899280 - 07/14/10 07:45 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

:feelsweirdman:time machine


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InvisibleSouthernGulfStyle
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Re: Alcoholic??? Serious inquries only please [Re: morrowasted]
    #12899297 - 07/14/10 07:47 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

ripple still gets on here??? don't he


--------------------

Awebig Faggot said " Nice fucking question, shivers blood.
Seriously, go." ahahah A prime example of getting mad through a computer


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