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crumble and case vs dunk and roll results
    #11068234 -

as i'm just starting off at this i figured i'd try a few different methods.  from what i was reading on here, it sounded like a dunk and roll was better then a crumble and case.  well, heres what i ended up doing.  i did a couple "test" cakes, you know to see what i was getting myself into before i started spending more time and money (although it turned out to be super cheap lol) doing everything myself.  my dunk and roll test cake got about 3/4 of an ounce dried.  my crumble and case got about double that.  both on the first flush.

the dunk and roll was done 2 days before the crumble, i dunked it for about 14 hours, then rolled it in dry verm, and put it in the terrarium.  took about 12 days or something like that to pin but after the pins showed up they grew pretty quick.

the other test cake i crumbled and cased in verm.  i took a cake pan, put a thin layer of perlite at the bottom, covered it in verm then spread the cake on top of that, then topped it off with dry verm.  took about the same amount of time to pin and fruit but they came out bigger and about twice as many.

both of these were in the same terrarium.

after the first flush on cake i dunked and rolled it again, and so far no new pins, the pins that were on there before the dunk are growing though.  the crumbled cake in the pan had quite a bit more pins already showing when i picked the mature ones off so i just gave it a good misting and let it be, some of those pins are already starting to fruit.

are these results normal?  cuz i keep hearing a dunk and roll is just as good as a crumble and case but my results show the crumble and case is a much better option to the dunk and roll.

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Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: tictactone]
    #11068274 -

crumble and casing doesnt increase the amount of food or mycelium.

what kind of fruiting chamber are you using.

Also dunk for 24 hours fully submerged under water. 14 hours isnt long enough to fully hydrate your cakes.

Your growing from multispore so your results are going to vary form each grow.

Ive tried crumbling and casing, my straight cakes dont wonderfully and my crumbled cakes performed not so well.

Generaly cased cakes produce fewer but larger flushes, where as cakes produce smaller but more flushes,


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

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Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: veda_sticks]
    #11068395 -

actually the crumble and case did produce more mycelium because before it started pinning the layer of verm on top turned to about 65% mycelium.  i wouldve done a 24 hour dunk but i wasnt going to be around to pull it out after that 14th hour and i didnt want to drown it.  the multispore explains it though, i just didnt know it would vary that much.  as far as my fruiting chamber goes i just took a tub, put water in the bottom, then put a cake pan in with some perlite in it, cut a hole in the lid then sealed it up so i could get light in, i had a fish tank heater in there but it burned out so now i use a space heater on the outside and it gets the inside to stay right around 80 degrees.  i have a nebulizer that pumps in fresh air and the humidity stays in the 90% area, the lowest i saw it get was 92% but it usually stays above 95%.

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Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: tictactone]
    #11069220 -

crumble, dunk, then case.

best of both worlds.


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ʋɳʛɼɑʈɛʄʋɭɖɛɑɗ

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Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: shroomiin]
    #11069267 -

If you're going to fruit from cakes, just dunk and roll.  Easy.

If you want to experiment with different methods, start researching on bulk grows. 

If you have some colonized cakes on hand, all you would need would be some free horse manure (from some field) and a large pot.  Click on the horse poo tek in my signature to be enlightened.

Horse poo bulk trays are the shizzle.  I just peeked in on a few of mine that have been going for one week today and the mycelium is busting up through the top poo layer.  It's a wonderful site.


--------------------
Self-Healing Jar Lid Tek
WBS Tek
Simple Monotub Tek
Horse Poo (Bulk Substrate) Tek
Grain-to-Grain Transfers
Grain LC
Complete Bulk Project Guide (+ Extra Links)
PF Tek Videos
Favorite Links!!!

As below, so above, I imagine...                            :trippinbawelz:

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Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: Project]
    #11069450 -

Build a shotgun terrarium and you will get the best out of your cakes.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

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Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: Project]
    #11069479 -

Project said:
If you're going to fruit from cakes, just dunk and roll.  Easy.

If you want to experiment with different methods, start researching on bulk grows. 

If you have some colonized cakes on hand, all you would need would be some free horse manure (from some field) and a large pot.  Click on the horse poo tek in my signature to be enlightened.

Horse poo bulk trays are the shizzle.  I just peeked in on a few of mine that have been going for one week today and the mycelium is busting up through the top poo layer.  It's a wonderful site.


:thumbup:

You can even use store bought manure. Check the sig, it's oh so simple and will give you way more :mushroom2: than casing crumbled cakes alone....


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Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: m00nshine]
    #11070844 -

already have a shotgun terrarium and i've already started on some bulk but instead of poo i'm using coffee because i cant eat something that i know for a fact came from shit, i dont know why but it bothers me lol.  i also have quite a few lc jars, and i just started some quart jars of wbs spawn.  i started about 2 months ago but i wanted to try different techniques lol.

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Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: veda_sticks]
    #11070861 -

veda_sticks said:
crumble and casing doesnt increase the amount of food or mycelium.



It does however increase surface area.


--------------------
Self Healing lid tek ** Update 10.17.17 **
Mini casing pictures: Pins to harvest
Cup O' Shrooms
Magash:  I noticed my contams were in the shape of fingers :whack:
Hyphae:  Yes  "Loss of moisture from the substrate"  is not a casing trigger.  :cuckoo:

My final Grow!

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Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: Citric]
    #11070886 -

Increases surface area yeah, so you can crumble a cake and use it to inoculate more substrate.

But crumbling and adding a non-nutritious casing layer is counter-productive. You're just forcing the myc to spend energy repairing itself without adding any nutrients.


Worm castings are a very effective alternative to poo. It's very clean and smells nice. Personally tho I think horse poo smells fine too.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Edited by anonjon (09/16/09 03:11 PM)

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Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: anonjon]
    #11070908 -

anonjon said:
But crumbling and adding a non-nutritious casing layer is counter-productive. You're just forcing the myc to spend energy repairing itself without adding any nutrients.


Casing layers are suppose to be non-nutritious =)


--------------------
Self Healing lid tek ** Update 10.17.17 **
Mini casing pictures: Pins to harvest
Cup O' Shrooms
Magash:  I noticed my contams were in the shape of fingers :whack:
Hyphae:  Yes  "Loss of moisture from the substrate"  is not a casing trigger.  :cuckoo:

My final Grow!

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Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: Citric]
    #11070917 -

Citric said:
Casing layers are suppose to be non-nutritious =)


Strange cat you.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

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Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: anonjon]
    #11070940 -

With crumbled cakes it is my opinion that if your gonna go trough all the trouble, best to spawn to bulk(which WILL give you more wieght), whereas JUST casing won't give considerable benefit.

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Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: anonjon]
    #11070942 -

anonjon said:
Citric said:
Casing layers are suppose to be non-nutritious =)


Strange cat you.


??

You disagree?

Casing layers by definition is a non-nutritious layer covering our substrate.  Which is why people use verm/peat!


--------------------
Self Healing lid tek ** Update 10.17.17 **
Mini casing pictures: Pins to harvest
Cup O' Shrooms
Magash:  I noticed my contams were in the shape of fingers :whack:
Hyphae:  Yes  "Loss of moisture from the substrate"  is not a casing trigger.  :cuckoo:

My final Grow!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: Dickhead]
    #11070952 -

KittyFriend420 said:
With crumbled cakes it is my opinion that if your gonna go trough all the trouble, best to spawn to bulk(which WILL give you more wieght), whereas JUST casing won't give considerable benefit.


If you are willing to do bulk, I see not point in using pf cakes for that.  Just get to grain!

I am not a fan of using cakes for anything other then fruiting them as cakes.  Hell I am not a fan of cakes at all!  =)


--------------------
Self Healing lid tek ** Update 10.17.17 **
Mini casing pictures: Pins to harvest
Cup O' Shrooms
Magash:  I noticed my contams were in the shape of fingers :whack:
Hyphae:  Yes  "Loss of moisture from the substrate"  is not a casing trigger.  :cuckoo:

My final Grow!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: Citric]
    #11070996 -

I do, but considering going back to cakes.

My PC's seal is iffy.. and it can only do 5 jars at a time. Can take a long time when doing a large amount. 

A BIG batch of Cakes in a huge lobster pot takes only 1 hour or so + Prep time which is faster than grain prep by days.

Cakes colonize fast... and if inoculated/incubated correctly little chance of contam. 

I've spawned them to bulk before, worked great.

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Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: Dickhead]
    #11071019 -

KittyFriend420 said:
Cakes colonize fast...



O_o!!!  Cakes are the slowest method of colonizing we do!  Grains are much faster due to being able to shake and spread the mycelium around.

I agree 5 quarts at a time would be a pain in the ass.  But 5 quarts would be big enough for a good size monotub.  You can check my link of my grow log, I used 6 quarts on the tubs, and 5 quarts on one of the tubs(My drunkass counted wrong when I was prepping the jars lol).  I averaged no less then 6.5 oz just on the first flush alone per tub.  One tub actually gave me 8 oz.


--------------------
Self Healing lid tek ** Update 10.17.17 **
Mini casing pictures: Pins to harvest
Cup O' Shrooms
Magash:  I noticed my contams were in the shape of fingers :whack:
Hyphae:  Yes  "Loss of moisture from the substrate"  is not a casing trigger.  :cuckoo:

My final Grow!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: Citric]
    #11072194 -

Citric said:
anonjon said:
Citric said:
Casing layers are suppose to be non-nutritious =)


Strange cat you.


??

You disagree?

Casing layers by definition is a non-nutritious layer covering our substrate.  Which is why people use verm/peat!


Of course I don't disagree. I just couldn't figure out why you were saying it. I think you agree with me that crumbling cakes and casing them is a pointless exercise, but sometimes it's hard to figure out your point.

Hence my observation that you are a strange cat. Which btw is not in any way intended as an insult.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

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Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: anonjon]
    #11073524 -

anonjon said:
Citric said:
anonjon said:
Citric said:
Casing layers are suppose to be non-nutritious =)


Strange cat you.


??

You disagree?

Casing layers by definition is a non-nutritious layer covering our substrate.  Which is why people use verm/peat!


Of course I don't disagree. I just couldn't figure out why you were saying it. I think you agree with me that crumbling cakes and casing them is a pointless exercise, but sometimes it's hard to figure out your point.

Hence my observation that you are a strange cat. Which btw is not in any way intended as an insult.


It's all good =)

I agree that cakes should be fruited as cakes as they are intended to be.  But casing them is also not the worse of ideas as well.  People have noticed an increase in yield since there is more surface area.  It also helps people get use to casing which helps out in the future.


--------------------
Self Healing lid tek ** Update 10.17.17 **
Mini casing pictures: Pins to harvest
Cup O' Shrooms
Magash:  I noticed my contams were in the shape of fingers :whack:
Hyphae:  Yes  "Loss of moisture from the substrate"  is not a casing trigger.  :cuckoo:

My final Grow!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: tictactone]
    #21258281 -

a good method for beginners using the PF TEK is to dunk for 20 to 24 hours (NO LONGER THAN 24 HOURS) then roll the whole 360 of the cake in vermiculite wile leaving the top and bottom bald. add a mason jar lid filled with moist vermiculite and put a spoon full of used coffee grounds in the center of the moist jar lid as you set the bottom of the PF cake on top of the coffee spot. Then add enough used coffee grounds on the top of the cake until you can flatten it out just not so much that its falling off of the cake. add some dry vermiculite on top of the used coffee grounds you have already placed on top of the cake and your left with a great way to recycle your used coffee rather than throw it away and also bigger fruits than just rolling in vermiculite :smile: I hope this helps and if anyone likes this add on to the pf tek let me know :laugh:

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Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: libsk8r1]
    #21258285 -

old thread....never put coffee on a fruiting sub


--------------------
It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

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Re: crumble and case vs dunk and roll results [Re: libsk8r1]
    #21258290 -

Nice necro-thread!

:scarybeat:


--------------------
“Until they became conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.”
― George Orwell, 1984

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
― Albert Einstein

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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