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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: The person you voted for is a tool. [Re: Sombie]
    #11033035 - 09/10/09 09:08 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sombie said:
Oh, also I take offense that you keep asserting that I hate the military. Like I said, I come from a military family, I worked with military veterans (including ones that have been injured and lost limbs in Iraq) I respect them and I am very thankful of them. Not to toot my own horn, but in addition to being involved in training to help keep them safe I also have donated to the Wounded Warrior Foundation. What have you done, put a few magnets on your car?




Nope, no magnets.  You may have done many lovely and charitable things for the military but it is clear that you think they are beneath you.  How sweetly condescending of you.  You're a real nice guy to donate to the care of retarded puppets.  Do you have any idea how patronizing you are?  Do you have any idea how irrelevant that is to the fact that you have a far more closed and simplistic puppet mind than I do?
Quote:



I have done more for the military then you could ever think of, unfortunately that falls far short of all the military has done for me.




Except to condescend to them.  That you do much more for them than they do for you.
Quote:



That being said, for obvious reasons, military men tend to have an aversion to having an open mind, they tend to think as they were trained to think: The establishment is right, anything else is wrong. That is not necessarily a bad thing, and we certainly need people like that.




No, they tend to act as they were trained to act.  Not think.  How lame.
Quote:



I was only asking because you seem so offensive at anyone who disagrees with you. You were ready to attack me before hearing me out. That is something I tend to see in military men when talking politics. Its not that you were disagreeing with me, but more that you were so quick to try and shout me down without paying attention or listening to what anyone else has to say.




There it is again, the common leftist trope that if only I had paid more attention to you I would have smacked my head and realized, "My fucking god that's brilliant!!  What was I thinking?"  Spare me.  There is not one thing that you have written that isn't straight out of the leftist playbook.  You are quite boring that way.  Let me rephrase that just so there can be no misunderstanding.  There is not one original thought in anything I have seen you write.
Quote:



I certainly wouldn't think less of you if you were a military man, but apparently you think its an insult, when it was really an honest question.

So if you are insulted by being asked if you are a military man, then maybe you need to look at your own insecurities.




No, I and everybody who ever served in the military is insulted that you are such a condescending little genius, worldly beyond your years and blessed with one of the last open free-thinking minds on earth.  Like I said, "Spare me."


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: The person you voted for is a tool. [Re: Sombie]
    #11033064 - 09/10/09 09:16 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sombie said:
The thread isn't "is Obama a leftist" its "the guy you voted for is a tool" The thread poster says hes a tool because of his right of center war policy, not because of his "leftist healthcare"

So I guess it is you who is off topic?




I offered several other examples of his toolishness earlier in this thread.  Feel free to read them.  How's that staffing thing going?  How's that foreign policy brilliance going?  He got schooled by fucking Hugo Chavez.  The moron.
Quote:




Again, tell me how am I supposed to debate that Obama is a leftist, without debating the issues that you say make him a leftist.




I asked before and I will ask again.  Do you not believe that universal health care controlled by the government is a leftist creation?  Whether it is a good idea or not has NOTHING to do with whether it is an expression of leftist thought and policy.  Fuck me.
Quote:



That sounds like a catch 22 in my opinion.




A great book.  An even better book for this administration is Confederacy of Dunces.
Quote:



"Hes a leftist because of his healthcare, I'm not going to debate his healthcare."

How about this? I say hes a centrist because of his healthcare. But I'm not going to debate his healthcare.



I offered several other pieces of evidence as well.  So, are you going to argue now that universal health care is not a leftist position?  Because I gleefully await that.


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OfflineSombie
Moonrock eater


Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 2,643
Loc: Stafford, Virginia
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: The person you voted for is a tool. [Re: Seuss]
    #11033523 - 09/10/09 11:14 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> With most families in this country scrapping to get by paying 1300 dollars for a hydrocodone script is not reasonable.

What!?  A generic Vicodin (hydrocodone) prescription, without insurance, costs ~$12 to fill here, and we are typically more expensive than most places in the US.  I'd love to know where you are having to pay $1300, or did you simply pull some big number out of your ass and present it as fact.  Please, provide a source for your outlandish claim.




Its not the script itself that cost that much, had you read the original post where I mentioned it, it was the ER visit where all I gained was a Vicodin script that cost 1300 dollars.

I obviously can't find a source for an original experience but here is this.

http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourhealth/healthyliving/articles/what_an_outragewaaay_too_many_er_visits.html

Try reading my posts before you say they are "outlandish claims"

Quote:

The average cost of an emergency room visit in the United States is about $1,000




--------------------
"America... just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable." - Hunter S Thompson

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Edited by Sombie (09/10/09 11:15 AM)


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 8 days, 20 hours
Re: The person you voted for is a tool. [Re: Sombie]
    #11033549 - 09/10/09 11:19 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

> Try reading my posts before you say they are "outlandish claims"

I read what you posted and you said "With most families in this country scrapping to get by paying 1300 dollars for a hydrocodone script is not reasonable."  I can't read minds.  If you want to include emergency room visits into the cost, then you need to be clear.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineSombie
Moonrock eater


Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 2,643
Loc: Stafford, Virginia
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: The person you voted for is a tool. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11033642 - 09/10/09 11:37 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I offered several other examples of his toolishness earlier in this thread.  Feel free to read them.  How's that staffing thing going?  How's that foreign policy brilliance going?  He got schooled by fucking Hugo Chavez.  The moron.




Fine, lets go through this then? For the record I half agree with the OP, he has done some pretty lame things, but the things you talk about are just ridiculous.

Staffing: Big deal, every president has trouble with his staff, people have skeletons in their closets and they usually don't tell someone who is about to give them a job, but the press tends to dig them up. Other have issues of abuse of powers once they are IN, Tom Delay anyone? Its funny how short your memory is.

Hugo Chavez: Really? Got schooled? How because he shook hands with the leader of another nation? Sorry, just because he said some mean things about Bushy Boy doesn't make him public enemy number 1. He has done some questionable things as president of Venezuela, but thats not a U.S. issue, its a Venezuela issue.

BTW Chavez? There is your REAL leftist.

Foreign policy: Doing much better then the neo cons. What exactly, Mr. Neocon is it that you dislike about his foreign policy? That the whole world doesn't hate him, or that hes dealing with the two wars you left him decently. (well, I'd like to get out of the region completely, but he was the lesser of two evils here)


Quote:


I asked before and I will ask again.  Do you not believe that universal health care controlled by the government is a leftist creation?  Whether it is a good idea or not has NOTHING to do with whether it is an expression of leftist thought and policy.  Fuck me.




Well thats off topic. You see, the topic is, is he a tool or not. Just because something may or may not be "leftist" does not make it good or bad by itself.

So since I somehow am not allowed to argue if its a good thing or not, how can I argue if it makes him a tool or not? Again, the topic isn't "Obama: Leftist or not?" its "Obama: Tool or not?" The fact that you think something being leftist in and of itself makes it bad just shows how much of a lap dog you are for the GOP.

Quote:

So, are you going to argue now that universal health care is not a leftist position?  Because I gleefully await that.




Again, off topic. but, just to keep your whining ass happy, I'll go ahead and do it.

Universal healthcare itself is a leftist position, it is not a "radical leftist" position, just a normal leftist position. It is not socialist, communist or anything of that sort. The rest of the free world has healthcare, and for most countries it works out far better, but thats not the point. (apparently, if its better or not isn't important, just if its "from the left" :rolleyes:)

Obama's plan, that does not include single payer, increases Workplace healthcare and now may not even include the public option, is not a radical leftist position. Its a centrist position, perhaps SLIGHTLY center left.

But if you think an attempt to fix healthcare, without single payer is a "radical leftist" position then you must have a small scale.

Let me ask you this, was Bush a radical right neocon? I'm not trying to divert the argument that way, I am honestly asking to see where your scale is.


--------------------
"America... just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable." - Hunter S Thompson

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OfflineSombie
Moonrock eater


Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 2,643
Loc: Stafford, Virginia
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: The person you voted for is a tool. [Re: Seuss]
    #11033650 - 09/10/09 11:38 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Try reading my posts before you say they are "outlandish claims"

I read what you posted and you said "With most families in this country scrapping to get by paying 1300 dollars for a hydrocodone script is not reasonable."  I can't read minds.  If you want to include emergency room visits into the cost, then you need to be clear.





It was in an earlier post in the thread.


--------------------
"America... just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable." - Hunter S Thompson

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: The person you voted for is a tool. [Re: Sombie]
    #11033652 - 09/10/09 11:39 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sombie said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
> With most families in this country scrapping to get by paying 1300 dollars for a hydrocodone script is not reasonable.

What!?  A generic Vicodin (hydrocodone) prescription, without insurance, costs ~$12 to fill here, and we are typically more expensive than most places in the US.  I'd love to know where you are having to pay $1300, or did you simply pull some big number out of your ass and present it as fact.  Please, provide a source for your outlandish claim.




Its not the script itself that cost that much, had you read the original post where I mentioned it, it was the ER visit where all I gained was a Vicodin script that cost 1300 dollars.




NO, that is NOT all you gained.  You also gained the determination that your back wasn't fucked up.  Now get back to work.  Are you so stupid to think that X-rays that are negative should be free?  Maybe you shouldn't be cluttering up emergency rooms with your obviously fake injuries.  Shit, you should have been charged punitive damages for wasting highly trained people's valuable time with your wimpy complaints.
Quote:



I obviously can't find a source for an original experience but here is this.

http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourhealth/healthyliving/articles/what_an_outragewaaay_too_many_er_visits.html

Try reading my posts before you say they are "outlandish claims"

Quote:

The average cost of an emergency room visit in the United States is about $1,000







That seems pretty cheap considering how high they can go.


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OfflineSombie
Moonrock eater

Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 2,643
Loc: Stafford, Virginia
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: The person you voted for is a tool. [Re: Sombie]
    #11033676 - 09/10/09 11:42 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I've been to one, [emergency rooms] I had a kink in my neck and couldn't move it. They took some X-rays then gave me a hydrocodone script, my bill? 1300 dollars. Not efficent, not affordable, not fair. I was lucky to have job based insurance at the time, if I didn't, like many people don't right now, I would have had a hard time paying it.




I guess I didn't mention the word emergency room there, but it was quoting Zappa talking about ERs after he quoted me talking about ERs.


--------------------
"America... just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable." - Hunter S Thompson

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OfflineSombie
Moonrock eater

Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 2,643
Loc: Stafford, Virginia
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: The person you voted for is a tool. [Re: Sombie]
    #11033696 - 09/10/09 11:46 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

How do you know it was negative? It was my neck, and no they told me not to go to work. I couldn't move it at all.


Yes, the X-rays should not be free, but 1300 dollars is not a fair price to run a machine once, it does not cost close to 1300 dollars to turn it on.

But thats not the point, the point is that the cost of a ER visit is out of the reach of many American families, so they don't pay it, and ultimately it gets paid by You, the American Tax payer.


So if we are paying for it anyway, and we could provide healthcare for everyone, and it would save us money in the long run, why are we not doing it?


--------------------
"America... just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable." - Hunter S Thompson

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OfflineSombie
Moonrock eater

Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 2,643
Loc: Stafford, Virginia
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: The person you voted for is a tool. [Re: Sombie]
    #11033749 - 09/10/09 11:56 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

You didn't answer my question, since you want to put it in a "left, right" issue, I have to figure out what you consider centrist, right and far right.

Where is Bush?

For the record, it doesn't really work like that, left vs right is what they want us to think in. It is more like a square, left and right are a part of it, but you can also be up or down.


--------------------
"America... just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable." - Hunter S Thompson

Check out Agio

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: The person you voted for is a tool. [Re: Sombie]
    #11033796 - 09/10/09 12:04 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sombie said:
How do you know it was negative? It was my neck, and no they told me not to go to work. I couldn't move it at all.




Well then, I guess you lied when you said all you got was a 'script.
Quote:



Yes, the X-rays should not be free, but 1300 dollars is not a fair price to run a machine once, it does not cost close to 1300 dollars to turn it on.




No.  Somebody who paid $300,000 for their education had to read it.  Maybe you would like to have an X-ray booth at the CVS where you can put in a quarter and get 4 X-rays that you then read for yourself.  And forget about suing the booth owner if the pics are muddled or you blow the diagnosis and end up crippled.
WHERE THE FUCK DO THESE PEOPLE COME FROM?
Quote:



But thats not the point, the point is that the cost of a ER visit is out of the reach of many American families, so they don't pay it, and ultimately it gets paid by You, the American Tax payer.




Most people are covered by insurance.  By far.  Then there are those who don't have insurance who could easily scrape together $1,300, either right away or over a short period of time.  If you are so poor that you can't make $1,300 payment rather quickly you are already so fucking poor that you qualify for MedicAid.  The point is that you are completely and utterly wrong.
Quote:

 


So if we are paying for it anyway, and we could provide healthcare for everyone, and it would save us money in the long run, why are we not doing it?




Who is this fucking "we"?  Based on what you revealed your income to be it sure as shit doesn't include much from "you".  Why do you think that a system run by incompetents for the few should be foisted on the many, who don't want it?  Why increase the class of government dependents just because there are some government dependents that are loss leaders?

You're a fucking pinata at this point.


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OfflineSombie
Moonrock eater


Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 2,643
Loc: Stafford, Virginia
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: The person you voted for is a tool. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11034017 - 09/10/09 12:47 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Well then, I guess you lied when you said all you got was a 'script.




No thats all I got, they said it was a muscle tweak, and to not work for a week. I went to work the next day, because all I had to do is not move my neck.

I can't remember if they called this "negative" or not, my point is that you were not there.

Quote:

No.  Somebody who paid $300,000 for their education had to read it.  Maybe you would like to have an X-ray booth at the CVS where you can put in a quarter and get 4 X-rays that you then read for yourself.  And forget about suing the booth owner if the pics are muddled or you blow the diagnosis and end up crippled.
WHERE THE FUCK DO THESE PEOPLE COME FROM?




Wow, you are fucking dense. Do you read something, reply and then immediately forget what was said? When people can't pay it (and you are an elitist fool if you think 1300 dollars is chump change to most families) the doctor still gets paid, but he gets paid by American Tax Payer. Since we are ALREADY paying, why not just pay for it in a system that will save us money?

Quote:


Most people are covered by insurance.  By far.  Then there are those who don't have insurance who could easily scrape together $1,300, either right away or over a short period of time.  If you are so poor that you can't make $1,300 payment rather quickly you are already so fucking poor that you qualify for MedicAid.  The point is that you are completely and utterly wrong.


 

Again, you show your self to be a heartless right wing elitist. First of all 46 million are uninsured, that is no partly number. for a comparison the population of the STATE of New York is just under 19 million.

Quote:


Who is this fucking "we"?  Based on what you revealed your income to be it sure as shit doesn't include much from "you".




Really? because I paid taxes. The average HOUSEHOLD income was 43,000. I made right around there, and I am a single guy living on my own. So yeah, I paid taxes, lots of taxes. and thats only the start of my life. I have plenty of time to catch up to you Zappa, you 51 year old loony who will soon be a terrible burden on our healthcare system.

Quote:

Why do you think that a system run by incompetents for the few should be foisted on the many, who don't want it?  Why increase the class of government dependents just because there are some government dependents that are loss leaders?




Polls have found that the vast majority of Americans believe that healthcare needs to be overhauled. Support for Obama's plan might be slipping, partly because he has compromised to much, and partly because of GOP fear mongering, but the vast majority of Americans still support some sort of overhaul of our healthcare system. That should tell you something.



Quote:

You're a fucking pinata at this point.





Not really. All my points still stand, and you sit here and attack straw men. I come with facts and you just scream GOP sound bites.

No, you are getting beat like Forest Griffin in UFC 101.


--------------------
"America... just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable." - Hunter S Thompson

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: The person you voted for is a tool. [Re: Sombie]
    #11034433 - 09/10/09 01:56 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Polls have found that the vast majority of Americans believe that healthcare needs to be overhauled.




You continue to just make shit up.

No, credible polls run since the election of Obama do not show the "vast majority" of Americans believes the health care system needs to be "overhauled". Quite the reverse, in fact - the vast majority of those polled are either "satisfied" or "very satisfied" with the health care they and their families currently receive.

This is the main reason why Obama and the Dems aren't getting any traction on the issue - most Americans don't see how they themselves could possibly benefit from this "overhaul". The fact is that they won't  benefit, and they are smart enough to realize that.


Phred


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OfflineSombie
Moonrock eater


Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 2,643
Loc: Stafford, Virginia
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: The person you voted for is a tool. [Re: Phred]
    #11034478 - 09/10/09 02:05 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1913426,00.html

Exactly what I said. They worry about the details but support reform.


You are just making shit up.


--------------------
"America... just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable." - Hunter S Thompson

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: The person you voted for is a tool. [Re: Sombie]
    #11034657 - 09/10/09 02:32 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

No, not "exactly" what you said, not at all. Where is this "vast" majority of which you spoke?

And in this case, it is all about the details. While it may be true that many (not your fabled "vast majority", just many) of those polled by TIME believe there should be reforms made to the system, the type of reform is left unspecified. Do most of those respondents support tort reform, portability, repeal of regulations regarding State-granted monopolies for insurance companies, equal treatment tax-deductibility-wise for non-employer provided health insurance policies? Each of those things is undeniably reform, yet none of those things are acceptable to those touting Obamacare.

At any rate, none of this disproves the fact that Obama is a Leftist tool.




Phred


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OfflineSombie
Moonrock eater


Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 2,643
Loc: Stafford, Virginia
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: The person you voted for is a tool. [Re: Phred]
    #11034708 - 09/10/09 02:42 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I'd say, considering how the last three presidential elections went (almost 50-50) only 28% saying healthcare reform is not that important or not important at all is very telling.


--------------------
"America... just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable." - Hunter S Thompson

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: The person you voted for is a tool. [Re: Sombie]
    #11034952 - 09/10/09 03:24 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sombie said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Well then, I guess you lied when you said all you got was a 'script.




No thats all I got, they said it was a muscle tweak, and to not work for a week. I went to work the next day, because all I had to do is not move my neck.

I can't remember if they called this "negative" or not, my point is that you were not there.




Which has nothing to do with the fact that you got more than just a 'script.  You got a diagnosis.  When I say "the results were negative" that means they found nothing wrong.  You see it all the time when they describe sports injury exams that find no damage.  I'm only going by your report.
Quote:



Quote:

No.  Somebody who paid $300,000 for their education had to read it.  Maybe you would like to have an X-ray booth at the CVS where you can put in a quarter and get 4 X-rays that you then read for yourself.  And forget about suing the booth owner if the pics are muddled or you blow the diagnosis and end up crippled.
WHERE THE FUCK DO THESE PEOPLE COME FROM?




Wow, you are fucking dense. Do you read something, reply and then immediately forget what was said? When people can't pay it (and you are an elitist fool if you think 1300 dollars is chump change to most families) the doctor still gets paid, but he gets paid by American Tax Payer. Since we are ALREADY paying, why not just pay for it in a system that will save us money?




I didn't say it was chump change.  I said it was roughly an annual cable and internet bill  And, from your report, it wasn't paid by American Tax Payer, it was paid by your insurance, as it would be for most of the population.  And if by some chance you didn't have insurance and got the bill it still wouldn't be paid by the American Taxpayer because as a single young male making $45,000 a year you can certainly afford that bill yourself.  But, if there was Universal health care, then it would be paid by American Tax Payer.  Which, for the most part, means around 10% of the population.
Quote:

 

Quote:


Most people are covered by insurance.  By far.  Then there are those who don't have insurance who could easily scrape together $1,300, either right away or over a short period of time.  If you are so poor that you can't make $1,300 payment rather quickly you are already so fucking poor that you qualify for MedicAid.  The point is that you are completely and utterly wrong.


 

Again, you show your self to be a heartless right wing elitist. First of all 46 million are uninsured, that is no partly number. for a comparison the population of the STATE of New York is just under 19 million.




That is a false number which includes illegal aliens, people who don't need it (wealthy), people who voluntarily opt out (wise young males), and a large number of people who qualify for medicare but have not yet enrolled.  There are also other people who could afford it but choose not to buy insurance.  There is around 14 million who would like it but can't afford it and don't qualify.
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=18125
Quote:

Consider some commonly believed myths:

    * There are between 40 million and 50 million uninsured Americans (President Obama referred to "46 million uninsured Americans" in May 2009).
    * The 40 million to 50 million uninsured cannot afford health insurance.
    * The 40 million to 50 million uninsured do not get health care.
    * People will remain uninsured without government assistance.

The facts are quite different, says Seymour:

    * The Census Bureau puts the number of uninsured at 45.7 million and nearly 10 million are not citizens; that makes every media claim of uninsured Americans higher than 35.9 million wrong.
    * More than 17 million of the uninsured make at least $50,000 per year, 8.4 million make $50,000 to $74,999 per year and 9.1 million make $75,000 or higher.
    * The National Center for Policy Analysis estimates that uninsured people get about $1,500 of free health care per year, $6,000 per family of four.
    * The Urban Institute found that 25 percent of the uninsured already qualify for government health insurance programs; even the liberal Kaiser Family Foundation puts the number of uninsured Americans who don't qualify for government programs and make less than $50,000 a year between 8.2 million and 13.9 million.

Further, the Congressional Budget Office says that 45 percent of the uninsured will be insured within four months, and 36 million people would remain uninsured even if the Senate's $1.6 trillion health care plan is passed.

Source: Julia A. Seymour, "Fact Sheet: America's Uninsured," Business and Media Institute, June 23, 2009. 




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Quote:


Who is this fucking "we"?  Based on what you revealed your income to be it sure as shit doesn't include much from "you".




Really? because I paid taxes. The average HOUSEHOLD income was 43,000. I made right around there, and I am a single guy living on my own. So yeah, I paid taxes, lots of taxes. and thats only the start of my life. I have plenty of time to catch up to you Zappa, you 51 year old loony who will soon be a terrible burden on our healthcare system.




No.
Quote:

Real median household income in the United States climbed 1.3 percent between 2006 and 2007, reaching $50,233, according to a report released today by the U.S. Census Bureau. This is the third annual increase in real median household income.



http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/012528.html
So you are below the median and as such are in the group that pays fuck all in taxes.
http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6
The top 1% pay 40% of taxes
The top 5% pays 60% of taxes
The top 10% pays 70% of taxes
The top 25% pays 85% of taxes
You pay dick.
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Quote:

Why do you think that a system run by incompetents for the few should be foisted on the many, who don't want it?  Why increase the class of government dependents just because there are some government dependents that are loss leaders?




Polls have found that the vast majority of Americans believe that healthcare needs to be overhauled. Support for Obama's plan might be slipping, partly because he has compromised to much, and partly because of GOP fear mongering, but the vast majority of Americans still support some sort of overhaul of our healthcare system. That should tell you something.




Do you realize that a great many who think it should be changed think it should be changed in exactly the opposite direction you do?  I'd like it changed, too.  No more tax free income for employment plans.  No more employment plans period.  No restrictions on interstate insurers.  No coverage mandates for nipple ring reconstruction.  No coverage mandates for psych therapy.  No proscription against gender discrimination.  I could go on.  Reform.  I want it.
Quote:





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You're a fucking pinata at this point.





Not really. All my points still stand, and you sit here and attack straw men. I come with facts and you just scream GOP sound bites.

No, you are getting beat like Forest Griffin in UFC 101.




Your points fall like candy from a particularly fat Hillary Clinton bag of plaster.


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