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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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One possible reason is if you dont subsidize the poor they have a habit of coming to your house with torches and pitchforks.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Your assumptions are astounding
Look at all the other countries that have national health care they didn't suffer any major calamities by doing that
you sound just like the drug war people that claim the world will come to an end if prohibition is repealed. while every country that did away with prohibition, saw nothing but improvements in their society
having a public health care system will only make America a better nation
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Quote:
Knifey Mcstab said: I shouldn't have to pay for people who are negligent with their bodies.
I shouldn't have to pay for the police work, for people that don't have an alarm system on their house or for the fire department to come put out the fire that started because you smoke
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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silosighbin
this is the apocalypse
Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 1,757
Loc: isla vista baby!
Last seen: 5 years, 17 days
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Quote:
niteowl said: Your assumptions are astounding
Look at all the other countries that have national health care they didn't suffer any major calamities by doing that
you sound just like the drug war people that claim the world will come to an end if prohibition is repealed. while every country that did away with prohibition, saw nothing but improvements in their society
having a public health care system will only make America a better nation
yeah except the war on drugs is totally economically and morally unsound... restricting a massive market based on the misconceptions of politicians that aren't even really rooted in morality (nobody thinks you'll go to hell for smoking weed, doing acid, etc)...
and yeah, nationalized health care has worked for some countries... doesn't mean i want to have to pay for it it's like how we're taxed so much on cigarettes and alcohol to pay for other people's health care... if i end up going to the hospital, overdosed on alcohol or with liver failure or lung cancer, i don't want someone else paying for me, that's just wrong in my opinion... why would i take someone else's money because i made a choice to fuck up?
and i realize that 99% of people don't choose, i mean nobody wants to get sick or become diabetic or break a bone, etc bla bla bla. but still, why should everyone have to pay for it, instead of the people who are in need of help? yes, they deserve to get help. but i don't deserve to have my money stolen by the government to go towards someone else who could probably pay for it if they were making ends meet by working. it doesn't make any sense to me
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I shouldn't have to pay for the police work, for people that don't have an alarm system on their house or for the fire department to come put out the fire that started because you smoke
it's true though, i mean we're forced to pay for police when the vast majority of us don't use them, they just enforce a social structure. i've never called the police and i don't ever plan to. if someone is committing a crime against me, i'll deal with it directly instead of involving some fascist third party...
-------------------- i am caustic
Edited by silosighbin (09/06/09 10:11 PM)
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Quote:
silosighbin said: and i realize that 99% of people don't choose, i mean nobody wants to get sick or become diabetic or break a bone, etc bla bla bla. but still, why should everyone have to pay for it, instead of the people who are in need of help? yes, they deserve to get help. but i don't deserve to have my money stolen by the government to go towards someone else who could probably pay for it if they were making ends meet by working. it doesn't make any sense to me
What you seem to forget is, that every aspect of the cost of health care is inflated because of people that don't pay.
That right, your trip to the hospital is gonna cost you 2-3x as much as it should because there are lots of people that simply cannot afford to pay for a Dr. These people end up going to the ER for a cough or a ingrown toenail. Because a Dr's office won't see them because they don't have the $110 for an office visit.
I spent 5 days in a hospital with pancreatitis all they did was give me painkillers and nausea meds and they charged me $20,000 dollrs
I got news for ya man..........I will not pay that
Had the bill been $5000 I would have made an effort to pay it
a $20,000 bill at $100 a month will take over 16 years to pay off
How tha FUCK IS THAT FAIR
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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NoddinOut
Stranger
Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 186
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Knifey Mcstab
Sir Prancelot Brainfire
Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 4,846
Loc: PNW
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I won't argue that point.
Doesn't change the fact that I don't want to pay for some alcoholics health complications.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Quote:
Knifey Mcstab said: I won't argue that point.
Doesn't change the fact that I don't want to pay for some alcoholics health complications.
Every time you go to the hospital you are paying higher prices because of the people w/out health care
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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pfxtc
RUEXP?
Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 21,166
Loc:
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Quote:
robbyberto said: Obama mostly won the election because he looks cool and has a cool name. That is about as deep as it went. People are dumb, goodnight.
Lol - yeah, politics are so pathetic, I try not to look.
He's black, young, and hip, that's it. McCain wasn't much of a better choice though.
-------------------- koods said: Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus. Life-long trip report
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Knifey Mcstab
Sir Prancelot Brainfire
Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 4,846
Loc: PNW
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I rarely go to the hospital.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
NoddinOut said:
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pfxtc
RUEXP?
Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 21,166
Loc:
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Plus - what the fuck is Sarah Palin? Were the Republicans even serious, I still havn't gotten over how dumb that whole thing was.
-------------------- koods said: Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus. Life-long trip report
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Quote:
Knifey Mcstab said: I rarely go to the hospital.
So?
Do you pay for insurance? If so, then you are already paying for other peoples health care.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Knifey Mcstab
Sir Prancelot Brainfire
Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 4,846
Loc: PNW
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How so?
Where's the proof?
If I'm paying for other peoples health care, why is there such an outcry for socialized medicine?
EDIT: of course other peoples health costs make the cost of health care go up, but that doesn't mean I'm paying for everyones health care, just paying part of the premium for people already on the plan.
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Edited by Knifey Mcstab (09/07/09 12:28 AM)
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Quote:
Knifey Mcstab said: How so?
Where's the proof?
The money that you pay to your insurance company is used to help pay for other peoples health care that are insured by your insurance company
weather you like it or not that's how insurance works
everyone pays into the system the sick ones benefit from it
Quote:
If I'm paying for other peoples health care, why is there such an outcry for socialized medicine?
Because there are a lot of people that don't have access to health insurance May part time employees and small businesses can't afford health insurance
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Zebratek
Stranger
Registered: 07/04/09
Posts: 59
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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This is pretty much the best quick argument for universal health care that I've ever seen. I don't care how flexible your backbone you can't contort yourself enough to writhe through all the hoops required to justify this. If there is a more damning statement to be made about our current failure of a system I'd love to see it.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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that graph speaks volumes
the U.S. wastes so much money it is mind-fucking-boggling
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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silosighbin
this is the apocalypse
Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 1,757
Loc: isla vista baby!
Last seen: 5 years, 17 days
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Quote:
niteowl said: that graph speaks volumes
the U.S. wastes so much money it is mind-fucking-boggling
yeah... hence why i wouldn't like to put even more money and control into the hands of a government that's constantly fucking up.
The problem with the whole universal health care system is that in the end, government always fucks things up. How could you expect something like this to be both efficient and not a total money-stealing venture??? you people have WAY too much faith in government and it disturbs me
-------------------- i am caustic
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
silosighbin said: The problem with the whole universal health care system is that in the end, government always fucks things up.
Six days a week, without fail, my mail gets delivered from all different parts of the country. Every year around Thanksgiving I'm able to safely drive from Portland, OR, to my parents' house in Sacramento, CA, thanks to government funded roads and highways. I can drink water straight from the tap, thanks to government regulations that keep the water clean. Electricity reaches my house every day thanks to the power grid installed with taxpayer money. This idea that government can't do anything right is superstition, not fact. Go ask the people in Somalia how much better off they are without government in their lives.
Furthermore, why is it that countries with national healthcare systems so consistently outrank us in every quality of life index? Surely government must be fucking everything up for them, right?
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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The problem with the US is it is a capitalistic nation you can't put a price on EVERYTHING and expect our society to work
some socialist systems need to be in place
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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