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 Zen Peddler
 
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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 Psilocybe Caerulipes? 
#1099903 - 12/01/02 12:22 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have a mushroom fruiting off straight rye-grass seed quite well. it is brown and umbonated, with strong white veil remnants over most of the cap thickening towards the margin. stem is pale white with mycelia radiating in the air at the base of the stem. Flesh whitish brown and blueing not very significant.
labelled as ps.mexicanna, but ive got my doubts.
ANy ideas??
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Anonymous
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1100598 - 12/01/02 10:12 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1103039 - 12/02/02 02:10 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ive been told that it is defiantely mexicanna, and like you've said domestic mushrooms can be quite different to wild specimens.
Stamets suggests that caer. does have veil remnants along the margin. But he also suggests that ps.Australiana exists and is 'mildly potent'
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Anonymous
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1103935 - 12/02/02 12:43 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: ]
#1104145 - 12/02/02 01:49 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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There is an index for the stirps and for the species in the index to the book. It just takes ten minutes to download the pages from acrobat. I have posted the url on several ocassions. Some Caerulipes also get wavy caps in the wild and their color can be a chestnut similar to P. cyanescens drying to a straw-yellow. There is a good image of this species in ALexander H. Smiths A Field Guide to Eastern mushrooms, which I believe also has a picture of P. cubensis in it.
Mj
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Anonymous
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: mjshroomer]
#1104789 - 12/02/02 05:51 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: ]
#1104857 - 12/02/02 06:14 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Guzman's monographs are quite useful.
However his description of ps.Subaeruginosa under Subaeruginosae is incorrect. Guzman accessed and examined only one type specimen from the Botanical Gardens of SA herbarium and found brown pluerocystidia. (specimen 13251). These type specimens were all lectotyped and accessined by Cleland to this herbarium in 1927 and there were approx ten specimens. Buchanan examined all other specimens available (ad 13256, 5598, 5599, 5600, 5602, 5603 lectotypes) and found only hyaline pluerocystidia in all these specimens originally delinated by Cleland as lectotype - the same mushroom. The other descriptions of Guzman's Subaeruginosa are consistant with Ps.Australiana as he described it. Chang and Mills found in 1996 through protein analysis that these are the same mushroom.
No other mycologists in Australia have ever found ps.Subaeruginosa with brown pluerocystidia. I agree with buchanan, chang and mills and a host of others by saying that Guzman's AUstraliana is a misnomer.
Guzman's accessined original specimen of ps.Tasmaniana was also examined and its unique forked cystidia as described by Guzman were absent! It was also Subaeruginosa.
I am having enzyme and dna compatibility tests conducted in Canada that will soon provide further evidence of these arguments.
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Anonymous
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1104902 - 12/02/02 06:30 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: ]
#1105014 - 12/02/02 06:54 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well Chang and Mills came out in 1996 and did protein analysis on specimens of Subaeruginosa, Eucalypta, tasmaniana but not Australiana and they confirmed that they were all type specimens of Cleland original mushroom. Guzman's original specimen of ps.tasmaniana was examined and found not to have forked cystidia (Guzman's main point of differentiation) It was found to be synonymous with Ps.Subaeruginosa.
Guzman refuted this by suggesting that they did not have the original subaeruginosa that he had described with brown pigmented pluerocystidia.
So buchanan and others examined the specimens used by Guzman to delineate Subearuginosa into four distinct catagories (subs proper, Austaliana, Eucalypta and tasmaniana) and again noted no brown pluerocystidia and found specimens of ps.eucalypta and australiana to be synonymous with ps.subaeruginosa in New Zealand.
From my experience I believe 100% that Ps.Australiana is the same mushroom as Ps.Subaeruginosa. Buchanan found this by examining the original specimens used by Guzman.
Buchanan also found that Subs in NZ varied from Guzman's Australiana and Eucalypta spore sizes and cystidia characteristics in a range from small to large. There were no uniform differences or macroscopic differences.
The differences described by Guzman are so minute that they are insignificant compared to the cystidia differences between different regional collections of panaeolus cyanescens.
At best I believe that we have two native psilocybe mushrooms in Australia that are currently identified. Ps.Subaeruginosa and Ps.Eucalypta. Having examined specimens of Eucalypta, it appears quite unique macroscopically and very different to subs from WA, SA and NSW and Victoria.
At worst all four are Ps.Subaeruginosa which is commonly believed throughtout Australian mycology.
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Anonymous
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 Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1105189 - 12/02/02 08:01 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1105678 - 12/02/02 10:15 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Here they are: NMote the veil remnants
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 azurescen
meanderinemushie muncher
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 261
Loc: bellingham wa
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1105738 - 12/02/02 10:30 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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is there sclerotia formation? is it definitely from mexico? carulieps is shown with the remnants of a cortinate veil around the cap edge in pmotw, but those dont look like the picture (not like it really matters, as expressed above)
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if the sign says dont pick the mushrooms, you should probably pick them
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1106016 - 12/03/02 12:12 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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A yeear or two or so back someone from Ohio posted several images of Psilocybe caerulipes picked in June and july. You should look for the post during those months. Your pictures are not P. caeerulipes or P. mexicana.
Look at my Samuiensis from Thailand, it is the only relative of P. mexicana found outside of Mexico and it macroscopically resembles P. mexicana except for its height of not more than three inches and it grows from manured soil not from manure directly and not from deciduous wood materials.
Mj.
Mj
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azurescen
meanderinemushie muncher
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 261
Loc: bellingham wa
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: mjshroomer]
#1106040 - 12/03/02 12:23 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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just a crazy thought, could be an extremely hardy strain of tampanensis
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if the sign says dont pick the mushrooms, you should probably pick them
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Anonymous
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1107690 - 12/03/02 04:05 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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Anonymous
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: mjshroomer]
#1107783 - 12/03/02 04:48 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: ]
#1107816 - 12/03/02 05:09 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Try the word Ohio in the forum. It was in between June to August when the images were posted here.
I will look inmy files to see if i made copies of them. At the time i had a shitty old computer with just two gigabytes of space and I always ran out of memory.
I'll check ir out and get back to youo later on this.
mj
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GGreatOne234
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 8,946
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 Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1108202 - 12/03/02 08:43 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Those are some Mindbl0wing Shro0m Images bluemeanie!!!
They sure are Incredible l00king specimens,
yes maybe th0se are cultivated fruits of perhaps Psilocybe atlantis would be my guess;
I am still in shock after seeing such a nifty mushr00m gr0w
5+Mushr00m ratIngs f0r y0u all
KeeP shr00min,
GG
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1108830 - 12/04/02 12:29 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Here are a few of the P. caerulipes from Ohio. found them in my files.
Ran out of posts for today so her eis one of three. I will post the other two images tomorrow.
mj
Psilocybe caerulipes from Cinncinati Ohio in June-July of 2001
mj
Edited by mjshroomer (12/04/02 12:31 AM)
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: mjshroomer]
#1108848 - 12/04/02 12:40 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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and the third image of P. caerulepes
But they still are not the same shroom in youor images, although the one image looks similar the size is different and the margins of the edges of the caps are different.
,mj
Edited by mjshroomer (12/04/02 12:42 AM)
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: mjshroomer]
#1109137 - 12/04/02 03:15 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wow! Great info guys! And those pics make it very clear that this mushroom is not ps.caerulipes. Those pics indicate a mushroom with classic woodloving psilocybe characteristics, and this mushroom does not have those. Its actually cultivated from an original isolate labelled Ps.Mexicanna from Workman to a friend.
When i isolated the mycelia i found it to be very different to any pictures i could find of mexicanna mycelia. Also no sclerotia formation and the fruits look like a weird psilocybe.
It has purple/brown spores and is a definate psilocybe of some description, but it reminds me of pictures in Stamets of caerulipes on page 104, ps.silvatica on page 146 and samuiensis on page 140.
Ive only got the one print so far, but ive got more in culture.
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1109553 - 12/04/02 09:48 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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For good info, P. silvatica does not really resemble a liberty cap as it lacks a definate nipple similar to ones found on liberty caps and it is quite diffenet in habitat than P. mexicana which grows in manured soil while P. silvatica is a wood loving species.
and the silvaticas are moe conical than cone shaped like the mexicanas and samuiensis.
mj
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joeshitragpicker
Home Sweet Home
Registered: 10/16/02
Posts: 1,265
Loc: Atlanta
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: mjshroomer]
#1113342 - 12/05/02 10:35 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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wow.. those look alot like the weillis we picked all fall
I could never tell the diff. you guys know your shit. 
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Anonymous
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 Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: mjshroomer]
#1113916 - 12/05/02 01:20 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: mjshroomer]
#1116423 - 12/06/02 06:19 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah this fruited well off rye grass seed and ive got no idea what it is to be honest. Did stain very slightly blue - no bioassay yet as i havent been well in the tummy for the last few days...
Maybe someone would like to examine a gill fragment?? 
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1118150 - 12/06/02 05:39 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Reville actually examined these a while ago and got these spore measurements: 11.02-15.05 by 6.7-8.8.
These seem a lot larger than the spore measurements listed in Stamets 1996.
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1118298 - 12/06/02 06:35 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi, Tomorrow I will email your image to guzman and send him the spore measurements for he shrooms. Maybe he has an idea of what they might be.
Mj
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: mjshroomer]
#1118325 - 12/06/02 06:52 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks MJ Id appreciate that! Better not send any of my stuff on aussie Psilocybes until afterwards. I would appreciate his input regarding Buchanan's work and my own findings of synonymy between Ps.Australiana and Subaeruginosa (with cleland's originals displaying hyaline and not brown pluerocystidia) - maybe a link to some of my posts on the topic. Id love to hear some feedback from him on that as well.
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1133721 - 12/11/02 08:53 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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More pics that might help:
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Anonymous
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1136876 - 12/12/02 09:35 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: ]
#1141604 - 12/14/02 05:41 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Maybe Liniformans??
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Anonymous
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1141627 - 12/14/02 05:53 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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deanofmean
mycophagous
Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 2,017
Loc: PNW
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: ]
#1141834 - 12/14/02 08:49 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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has it accured to you that you might have a new species ?
i think you should call it deaniemeanie
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Anonymous
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Re: Psilocybe Caerulipes? [Re: deanofmean]
#1142572 - 12/15/02 07:05 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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