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Kush44
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Registered: 09/04/09
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Need Help with Casings
#10998462 - 09/04/09 11:53 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ok i plan on doing casings but im confused on humdity and how to do them i can do everything up to the casing. Now i have 4 selfs i plan to grow on that will have 2 13 watt cfls on each self for light and then im going to put in a 8 18L x 12W x 18H and 4 small containers like 12x12x12. Now can i cover the whole bottom with the rye seed mix and putting casting on top? I heard with casting i dont need perlite for humidity but with containers big as mine would i need perlite or would my casting keep it humid enough? Also how much casting and which casting is best for big grows. Thanks
Edited by Kush44 (09/04/09 12:30 PM)
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PaN1K
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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: Kush44]
#10998489 - 09/04/09 11:59 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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*casing
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In every unsolvable pattern, lies the meaning to existence
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Kush44
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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: PaN1K]
#10998649 - 09/04/09 12:29 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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woops thanks
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PaN1K
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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: Kush44]
#10998744 - 09/04/09 12:51 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Rye seed mix? Are you talkin about spawning rye to bulk? If so you dont necassarily have to case it but some say it creates a more even flush. Also, JUST a casing layer isnt going to cut it on humidity. You're going to have to resort to some other means of keeping RH up.
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In every unsolvable pattern, lies the meaning to existence
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houdinihar
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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: PaN1K]
#10998975 - 09/04/09 01:27 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Kush44, casing 50/50 peat/verm, field capacity hydrated, then pasteurized--(i really have gotten into the habit of pasteurizing everything for 1 1/2 hours now because of all the probs i had with mold earlier.) apply over colonized substrate. can put into FC right away. still takes a few days for things pop after that. as far as humidity goes, if your tubs are large enough and they are enclosed in a plastic FC, you won't have a problem indoors with low humidity as long as the top is on. you can always mist your casing, although i don't. they wick up moisture from below and keep the evaporative process going that way.
houdinihar
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Kush44
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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: PaN1K]
#11001777 - 09/04/09 10:40 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well for other means i was thinking of putting a cup of water with a air pump in it i heard was good for fresh air exchange and humidity also i was going cute 1 golf ball size hole on each side on the container and plug it with “polyfill” Polyfill is a synthetic stuffing material for pillows, stuffed animals etc and has a wonderfully resistant property to contaminate.These four holes will allow for gas exchange with filtered air instead of just fanning. now i was going to put the rye seed mix in a aluminum foil pan and then add the casing.
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wattballasts

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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: Kush44]
#11001931 - 09/04/09 11:08 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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rye will fruit poorly. you will have better results if u spawn the rye to a substrate. such as coir or manure. read up on bulk substrates and pasteurizing. there is a step by step coir thread somewhere.
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Kush44
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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: houdinihar]
#11003488 - 09/05/09 09:30 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks man for the all the good words you answered alot of questions and i will take your advice on the 1 1/2 hours for pressure cooking. As i want no mold doing this. I change my containers as i went to 20qt containers as i can fit 3 on each shelf so would that be hard to keep the humidity up???
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Kush44
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Yea i was reading about rye to substrate and bulk substrates but its kinda confusing to me but i guess if i wanted to fill 12 containers im gonna need a lot. But you have and easy simple methods for bulk substrates??? I heard you dont need casing but wouldnt I for my humidity. I was just gonna make like 20-30 jars of rye seeds mix and then fill the bottom of my containers and layer with casings.
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wattballasts

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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: Kush44]
#11004338 - 09/05/09 01:32 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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goto a pet store and buy coco coir. it should come in a compressed brick.its used for reptile terrariums. one brick will go a long way as it expands to ten times it volume. mix that with anywhere from 5-50% vermiculite. id lean more towards 15%. u will also want to add a lil dolomite lime to buff the ph. i just kind of eyeball it with the goal of around a tblespoon per quart. bring the substrate(your coir and verm) to feild capacity. this is where when u pick it up it doesnt drip, if u squeeze it a few drips come out. and if u squeeze reaL real hard a small stream may run. load this substrate into gallon ziplocs.....i double bag them in case of a leak. fit as many of the bags u can at a time in ur biggest pot. and bring to 140-170 degrees for an hour and a half. be sure not to start counting until the center of the subtrate is 150 degrees! this is called pasteurizing. once this is done let the bags cool. now ur going to take your tubs and layer them like so... rye, sub, rye, sub, rye sub....until u have reached the desired depth. i recommend at least 3 inches. but preferably 4 to 6. cover and allow to colonize with proper GE. wait an extra week to allow to consolidate then fruit! u can add many things to your subtrate. i was just giving u a simple example. try adding spent coffee grounds. or manure to give them a little more variety from the coir. if u get manure from a field. make to lay it out in the hot sun or bake it to get the urine out before u use in your substrate.
Edited by wattballasts (09/05/09 01:36 PM)
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houdinihar
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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: Kush44]
#11004648 - 09/05/09 02:39 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kush44 said: Thanks man for the all the good words you answered alot of questions and i will take your advice on the 1 1/2 hours for pressure cooking. As i want no mold doing this. I change my containers as i went to 20qt containers as i can fit 3 on each shelf so would that be hard to keep the humidity up???
just for clarifying---not pressure cooking the casing for 1 1/2 hours, but pastuerizing (150-160 deg, F) in an open pot. i always put my casing mixture into either plastic or glass jars or mycobags to cook in. cool to room temp and apply.
houdinihar
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Kush44
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Well my problem here is space. Now you say this
"now ur going to take your tubs and layer them like so... rye, sub, rye, sub, rye sub....until u have reached the desired depth. i recommend at least 3 inches. but preferably 4 to 6. cover and allow to colonize with proper GE. wait an extra week to allow to consolidate then fruit!"
What tub do i put it in ??? Are you talking about the aluminumn pan i plant to fruit in?
So when its all cooled down i thought i break up the rye seed and put it into the zip lock bag that the sub is in and put it in a dark place to full colonize and then pour in aluminum pan and fruit. But i could be totally wrong.
"rye, sub, rye, sub, rye sub"
How much on each layer? I plan to use quart jars so how much sub so i need per jar?
Damn this stuff can get really confusing i keep researching and there are just to many different ways and to many people claiming its the best way so i get lost. Would i fruit badly is i jsut broke up the rye seed mix and put it on the bottom of the aluimiunm pan and the cover with worm casting and put it in to fruit or a dark place to coloinize and then fruit?
Im just looking for a 1-2 oz dried in each container. And sites to step by step pics or video that is easy to understand
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anonjon
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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: Kush44]
#11005171 - 09/05/09 04:35 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah you could cover w/ worm casings, but its a little on the dense side. You'd prolly want to cut it w/ verm.
My cat recently tried 2 things at the same time, 1. spawning rye to worm castings/straw. and 2. casing colonized grain directly with the 50/50+ mix.
Both look wonderful and both seem very resistant to contams. The worm castings almost seem magical in their ability to resist mold and bacteria. You can pasteurize it, let it set around for days and still use it w/o repasteurizing. It's really good stuff. The same thing seems true of the 50/50+ casing mix.
If you pasteurize correctly, you can't go wrong w/ worm castings or with the 50/50+ mix (peat/verm/lime/gypsum). Don't get too worried about following one tek or the other.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
Edited by anonjon (09/05/09 04:38 PM)
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Kush44
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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: anonjon]
#11005349 - 09/05/09 05:27 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks man for clearing things up for me a little well i might try many things on this grow but i heard worm casting are great. Ok now when you mean spawning rye to worm castings and straw do you mean making it bulk to cover more area? and how much straw and worm casting would you use. Im using 1 quart jars and using 20qt bins so to spawn it for bulk how much material would i need per quart. Now when you spawn it do you put it in a dark place and wait for it to full colonize and then spread out on the aluminum pan and fruit??? Do you even need casing when doing it that way ?
Edited by Kush44 (09/05/09 05:38 PM)
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anonjon
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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: Kush44]
#11005436 - 09/05/09 05:57 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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They say you can use a spawn ratio of around 1:3. That would mean 1 quart of colonized grain+3 quarts of bulk = 4 quarts total. This colonizes and fruits w/o a casing layer necessary. The point is to take 1 quart of mycelium and turn it into 4 quarts, without having all the trouble of sterile procedure.
Since my cat was new to this. He went with more like a ratio of 1:1 or 1:2, so it would colonize faster and be less likely to fail.
Here's his grow log: He did a dubtub, monotub, a grain casing, and some 6 quart shoebox tubs of the same bulk sub. All are doing fantastic on straw/worm castings (50/50+ for the casing), despite terribly unsterile conditions/practices. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10900413#10900413
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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Kush44
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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: anonjon]
#11007325 - 09/06/09 12:24 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ok so let me get this right i use the worm casting and straw 50/50 to use for my bulk substact and then i use the same thing for my casing ??? I will probably do the 2:1 ratio to start off with but i heard of people that do 5:1 ratio but ill work my way up to that. Now do i have to use casing i mean why is it really important??? I might need it for humidity control. Well is what i said so far correct. And thanks man for all the good help
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anonjon
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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: Kush44]
#11008172 - 09/06/09 06:59 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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That sounds real good. No, you don't need to case it.
When my cat made the dubtub he made the mistake of wrapping the plastic up flush against the lid of the bottom tub. This caused condensation to flow down onto the surface and pool up. So he sprinkled a little bit of dry verm right out of the bag. This wasn't really a casing layer. It just helped manage the pooling problem. Tub is fruiting as we speak. Very exciting.
Oh... by the way , I'm not sure what you mean when you ask if you should use the same mix as a casing. A casing layer is a non-nutritive covering, unlike straw or castings. When I say 50/50+ casing mix I'm referring to peat moss/vermiculite mix from Ryche Hawk. Here's the link to that tek, but if you make up some bulk sub, you won't ever need to case anything. http://www.shroomery.org/54/50-50-Casing-Tek
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
Edited by anonjon (09/06/09 07:05 AM)
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Kush44
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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: anonjon]
#11008622 - 09/06/09 10:26 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
anonjon said: That sounds real good. No, you don't need to case it.
When my cat made the dubtub he made the mistake of wrapping the plastic up flush against the lid of the bottom tub. This caused condensation to flow down onto the surface and pool up. So he sprinkled a little bit of dry verm right out of the bag. This wasn't really a casing layer. It just helped manage the pooling problem. Tub is fruiting as we speak. Very exciting.
Oh... by the way , I'm not sure what you mean when you ask if you should use the same mix as a casing. A casing layer is a non-nutritive covering, unlike straw or castings. When I say 50/50+ casing mix I'm referring to peat moss/vermiculite mix from Ryche Hawk. Here's the link to that tek, but if you make up some bulk sub, you won't ever need to case anything. http://www.shroomery.org/54/50-50-Casing-Tek
Ok so i think i might be good than i think i finally understand now. Im probably going to do the bulk sub so i wont even using casing but for a experiment im going to use it in 4 out of 12 tubs to see if there is a difference. Im probably going to try different bulk sub to see which one works the best. But thanks man for da help and making me understand
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wattballasts

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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: Kush44]
#11009674 - 09/06/09 02:20 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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         heres a lil pictorial up to the second flush
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Kush44
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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: Kush44]
#11011005 - 09/06/09 06:33 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kush44 said:
Quote:
anonjon said: That sounds real good. No, you don't need to case it.
When my cat made the dubtub he made the mistake of wrapping the plastic up flush against the lid of the bottom tub. This caused condensation to flow down onto the surface and pool up. So he sprinkled a little bit of dry verm right out of the bag. This wasn't really a casing layer. It just helped manage the pooling problem. Tub is fruiting as we speak. Very exciting.
Oh... by the way , I'm not sure what you mean when you ask if you should use the same mix as a casing. A casing layer is a non-nutritive covering, unlike straw or castings. When I say 50/50+ casing mix I'm referring to peat moss/vermiculite mix from Ryche Hawk. Here's the link to that tek, but if you make up some bulk sub, you won't ever need to case anything. http://www.shroomery.org/54/50-50-Casing-Tek
Ok so i think i finally understand now. Im probably going to do the bulk sub so i wont even using casing but for a experiment im going to use it in 4 out of 12 tubs to see if there is a difference. But when the Bulk Sub is fully colonized do i just break it up and put it in a tray and fruit. Also when mushrooms start forming can i take off the lid? I want to use skinner containers so i can control humidity better. Im probably going to try different bulk sub to see which one works the best. But thanks man for da help and making me understand
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wattballasts

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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: Kush44]
#11011780 - 09/06/09 09:12 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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what? no, u dont break it up when its colonized. put it in a fruiting chamber. i use shotgun terrariums. u can see step by step in the pictorial.
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anonjon
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lol, i didn't even catch that.
Yeah don't break it up. Just fruit it!
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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Kush44
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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: anonjon]
#11017354 - 09/07/09 09:46 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ok i saw yours pics so you mix the colonized jar with the Bulk sub in my aluminum tray and cover it and put it back in a dark warm place to colonize and then when its 100% colonized i introduce light, humidity and air exchange and its fruiting time or i could case it correct. Now for humidity will the colonized bulk sub be enough to humidify the container ???
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anonjon
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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: Kush44]
#11017878 - 09/07/09 11:13 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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?
A monotub creates enough humidity on its own, but a tray inside another container wouldn't. Usually small trays go into a perlite terrarium, or some kind of greenhouse setup. The polyfill you see on monotubs and double tubs keeps the moisture in.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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Kush44
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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: anonjon]
#11019489 - 09/08/09 07:56 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Damn lost again. Ok a monotub ???? would casing be easier for humidity?
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Kush44
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Quote:
wattballasts said:
         heres a lil pictorial up to the second flush
See i get all the pictures he shows him mixing the colonized jar with the bulk sub and letting it fully colonized and fruit. But why is the last picture on perlite and not in the tub? Now humidity is the problem now
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PaN1K
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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: Kush44]
#11020634 - 09/08/09 12:30 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm pretty sure the last pic is of his second flush. He took it out of the tub and dunked it and then put it in a perlite container
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In every unsolvable pattern, lies the meaning to existence
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wattballasts

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Re: Need Help with Castings [Re: PaN1K]
#11022583 - 09/08/09 05:07 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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yes. i fruited it for both flushes in a shotgun, only the second time i took it out and placed it on a sheet of plastic
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Kush44
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Ok the second to last picture i i see you are fruiting in a thin container now that must be great for humidity if im correct but when can you take off the top to let the mushrooms grow past the lid ? And i get it when he takes it out and soaks it and then uses perlite for humidity if im correct . But what size are you containers and what are your normal yields of the container you use ??? And hows the humidity and what you do for air exchange? Sorry for all the questions i like the thin container as it my spacee i can work with it better and use more of them.
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