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OfflineCaliGrower
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Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 8
Loc: Northern Cali
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Hanging Bag Question (Repost)
    #1098791 - 11/30/02 05:55 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

~~I screwed up and posted this in the Cultivation forum and not where it belongs~~
---
I started 48 PF cakes 3 days ago for use in an outdoor patch that Im starting, using the moe tek outdoor cultivation method. While working on that I have decided to be brave and try another new method as well.  Im going to try the hanging bag technique that I have read about in several posts over the past year or so, but I cant seem to find a FAQ about this method anywhere. I have been using the Jar/fish tank method for 2 years now with great results, but I am looking forward to trying new things with this great hobby. :grin: I assume I use PF cakes and then get a thick long plastic bag. (Translucent or opaque?) I fill the bag with damp straw and add the broken up cakes to the mix. I have no idea if a casing is required or what to use. I then seal the bag with heat. Then just keep the bag hanging in a warm dark place or a cool dark place depending on the stage of growth.

If anyone knows where I can find Info on this tek I would love to know, and if not I would love some knowledgeable advice on the steps that I am unclear about. (Virtually the whole process. :confused:  ) Good Luck to everyone out there and there growing endeavors!

---
I have done some research on some mushroom growing web sites (Eatable) and found that some farms use a hanging bag method to grow there crops. I am doing a bit more research into this but I also realize that I have made an error. This post should have been made in the advanced cultivation topic forum and I will correct this by posting there. When I discover how this method is done I will post my findings in the correct forum. Also, If I give this the old college try, I will create a grow log to share my findings with everyone.  :smile:

---
Im still looking for information on this and if anyone has any ideas or thoughts please share them! The suggestion has been made to use poo as a casing. But would that be a good idea? Sterilizing poo can't be much fun. (Ive been lucky enough to avoid that! so far) 


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OfflineDrJoseph
Wendy shot thegun.

Registered: 10/03/01
Posts: 211
Loc: intermolecular travel
Last seen: 14 years, 26 days
Re: Hanging Bag Question (Repost) [Re: CaliGrower]
    #1098852 - 11/30/02 06:28 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I'll reffer you to the site that got me hooked on grain 2 grain transfers, autoclave bags and straw... im hooked! and in way over my head.. :smile:
this guy knows his stuff - straw bag mushroom growerrr 


--------------------
"cus it aint gonna be like you think it is - thats the one thing you can take to the bank." - Terance mckenna


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OfflineCaliGrower
Certifiable

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 8
Loc: Northern Cali
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Hanging Bag Question (Repost) [Re: DrJoseph]
    #1098898 - 11/30/02 06:49 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Thank you!! That's exactly what I was looking for!
Four quick questions:
1- How do you water or "rain" the logs?
2- Does the amount of holes equal the amount of shrooms?
3- About how much space should I put between the holes?
4- Where can I get plastic bags such as the ones used on that site? Those look perfect!

Thanks again for your help! You have my undying gratitude!  :smile:


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OfflineDrJoseph
Wendy shot thegun.

Registered: 10/03/01
Posts: 211
Loc: intermolecular travel
Last seen: 14 years, 26 days
Re: Hanging Bag Question (Repost) [Re: CaliGrower]
    #1099516 - 11/30/02 11:44 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

1 - i dunno... spray em with water?
2- most likely
3 - close together so you get more mushrooms, but far apart so you dont dry out the bag. You decide.
4 - walmart. If you can find a product called "the foodsaver", the replacement bags can be any length you want. they come in a roll. the foodsaver is a vacuum bag sealer for vacuum sealing food, but an iron works just as well, but it wont vacuum seal em... which is alright since you dont want to vacuum seal anyways.

-the doc


--------------------
"cus it aint gonna be like you think it is - thats the one thing you can take to the bank." - Terance mckenna


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Offlinerhizo
herb eater

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 598
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Re: Hanging Bag Question (Repost) [Re: DrJoseph]
    #1099934 - 12/01/02 02:40 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

hanging bag growing looks soooo cool. i think i'll try a mini version for decorative purposes


--------------------
An optimist is never pleasantly surprised.


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Anonymous

Re: Hanging Bag Question (Repost) [Re: DrJoseph]
    #1100823 - 12/01/02 01:29 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I have a foodsaver, and I've been eying those bags for a while now. The foodsaver also comes with a nice feature, it can seal those bags, just like an impulse sealer. You don't even have to vacuum them to seal them.


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OfflineDrJoseph
Wendy shot thegun.

Registered: 10/03/01
Posts: 211
Loc: intermolecular travel
Last seen: 14 years, 26 days
Re: Hanging Bag Question (Repost) [Re: ]
    #1101741 - 12/01/02 09:27 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

ya... thats what the foodsaver is... an impulse sealer, with a vacuum feature. However, you can just buy the replacement bags and use an iron to seal em.. since the foodsaver costs about 130$, where the bags cost only 30$ for about a million feet of bags. An iron works extremely well with these bags from what i've tried so far.. put the bag on the ironing board, a pillow case over the end you want to seal, iron it up real slow, works great. To test the strength of the seal, i sealed one end, put some water in the bag, sealed up the other end, and squeezed with all my might. the seal held. i could not break it.
peace


--------------------
"cus it aint gonna be like you think it is - thats the one thing you can take to the bank." - Terance mckenna


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Anonymous

Re: Hanging Bag Question (Repost) [Re: DrJoseph]
    #1101853 - 12/01/02 10:14 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I was wondering, have you tried to pc those bags? The ones for the Foodsaver. I would think that they could stand it, but was afraid to try.

(Edit: type of bags)


Edited by Anonymous (12/02/02 12:38 AM)


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OfflineOn_the_Down-Low
Polyfil-ophile-Say it 3 timesfast.

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 401
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Hanging Bag Question (Repost) [Re: DrJoseph]
    #1102111 - 12/01/02 11:46 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

The bags for large scale shitake cult are made from plastic tubing -inflatable ventalation ducts for green houses.


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Offlinecanid
irregular meat sprocket
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Re: Hanging Bag Question (Repost) [Re: ]
    #1102441 - 12/02/02 01:15 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

i don't think yoiu can pc them. i recomend psturizing them via steam/hot water, then loading the bags with the drained, still hot straw.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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OfflineCaliGrower
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Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 8
Loc: Northern Cali
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Hanging Bag Question (Repost) [Re: CaliGrower]
    #1102816 - 12/02/02 02:58 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Because the bags are made for the keeping of food would they really need to be sterilized?  :tongue:


Edited by CaliGrower (12/02/02 01:49 PM)


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OfflineDrJoseph
Wendy shot thegun.

Registered: 10/03/01
Posts: 211
Loc: intermolecular travel
Last seen: 14 years, 26 days
Re: Hanging Bag Question (Repost) [Re: CaliGrower]
    #1104153 - 12/02/02 03:52 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

uh... ya... of course they have to be sterilized, unless you planned on keeping a bag full of mold. And yes, even though i dont have a PC, im almost positive the bags can stand the heat. They work in the microwave too.


--------------------
"cus it aint gonna be like you think it is - thats the one thing you can take to the bank." - Terance mckenna


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Anonymous

Re: Hanging Bag Question (Repost) [Re: DrJoseph]
    #1104879 - 12/02/02 08:21 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Well, I may try that in the next few days. I would think they can survive the heat, they can easily survive boiling temps and pc'ing is just 38 degrees more.
I'll report back to ya'll when I've done it.


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Offliner05c03
The Slug Scourge
Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 383
Loc: Indiana, US
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Hanging Bag Question (Repost) [Re: DrJoseph]
    #1105074 - 12/02/02 09:17 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Actually you do not need to sterilize the straw, if that is what you were refering too. It will do fine with pasteurizing, as long as you keep your temps optimal for colonization.


--------------------
Listen! Do you smell something?


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Offlineviscid
dikaryon

Registered: 09/23/02
Posts: 731
Loc: the mycological center of...
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Hanging Bag Question (Repost) [Re: CaliGrower]
    #1107289 - 12/03/02 03:51 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

this is marginally applicable to this thread, and since there obviously is interest and discussion here, i will add a question and a comment.

why does stamets in mush cult say no air exchange is necessary during spawn run when every other tek involving plastic bags clearly states that holes should be poked in the bags for air exchange?  anyone care to expound or elucidate from experience?

also, as far as bags go, poly tubing is the key word.  do some searches.  try searching for autoclavable poly tubing.

like this: http://www.aplasticbag.com/items.asp?cartid=11-ACCWARE-787832TJJUI44&Cc=TUBINGST  (not autoclavable, but cheap and awesome nonetheless.)

this is autoclavable, and just as fuckin cheap:
http://www.associatedbag.com/pdfs/30.pdf

i think the suppliers of mushroom specialty supplies are often gougers.
but i also think that there are idiots out there who would rather be lazy.......

good luck, peace, stay out of trouble. :tongue: 


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OfflineCaliGrower
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Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 8
Loc: Northern Cali
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Hanging Bag Question (Repost) [Re: viscid]
    #1108166 - 12/03/02 10:26 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

All right those autoclave bags look like just the thing. But only now I have options! Damn You Options! So I would think that a small bag would offer less usable space. (Surface space, and a smaller straw core.) [Captain Obvious!] But at some point larger would just waste space and material. (Point of diminishing returns de-ley.) Also what mm thickness is required to effectively hold the 5 or 6 feet of suspended straw while keeping its structural integrity with the added holes.


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OfflineOn_the_Down-Low
Polyfil-ophile-Say it 3 timesfast.

Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: Hanging Bag Question (Repost) [Re: CaliGrower]
    #1110148 - 12/04/02 04:14 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I don't think you hit the point of diminishing return untill the bags get too big to pick by hand. Over 6 or 7 ft tall. You are maximizing your vertical space, as opposed to the horizontal.


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Offliner05c03
The Slug Scourge
Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 383
Loc: Indiana, US
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Hanging Bag Question (Repost) [Re: viscid]
    #1110197 - 12/04/02 04:29 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

To answer your question about the apparent disparity between Stamets saying that no air changes are needed during the colonization period, and everyone saying that holes must be poked in the bags, you are thinking about two separate functions. Air exchanges to initiate fruiting are required to tell the fungus it is time to fruit. However, during colonization oxygen is still required by the fungus for respiration, but the concentrations can be much lower than required for fruiting. It also ties back to the idea that straw is usually pasteurized, not sterilized. Pasteurization decreased the diversity and numbers of possible competing organisms. If you do not poke holes in the bag during the colonization stage you greatly favor anerobic bacteria which will quickly take over and casue a crop failure.


--------------------
Listen! Do you smell something?


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Offlineviscid
dikaryon

Registered: 09/23/02
Posts: 731
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Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Hanging Bag Question (Repost) [Re: r05c03]
    #1110399 - 12/04/02 05:18 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

thanks fer the reply.

i had in the past allowed for some air exchange (holes in plastic coverings) for my colonizing pasteurized straw.  i have had success with straw, just not in  bags
Recently i spawned some bags and did not puncture the bags at all, rather they are compressed and airtight.  i'm sad that i may have allowed some bacteria to get a foothold....now i guess it's time to go home and punch holes.
the disparity is disconcerting, i have been torn over it for days.
in the growth parameters it clearly says no air exchanges necessary during colonization, which i took to mean no significant oxygen was necessary (i assumed the air present in the spaces between substrate fibers and the air inside the straw would be sufficient for metabolism to proceed).
thanks again roscoe.
peace
oh. if anyone wants to go in on a roll of some 2000'  10-12 inch rolls of poly tubing, pm me.  i want some, but DAMN that's a lot of bags.  i really want to make my own mycobags.
sorry for infiltrating the thread....
peace :tongue: 


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