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InvisibleDickhead
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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: Workman]
    #10986974 - 09/02/09 04:33 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I live in New Brunswick where the Lib Caps are the only ones that grow.  Hearty buggers to survive this climate.

Perhaps the local strains here would be a good bet for experimentation.


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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: Dickhead]
    #10987133 - 09/02/09 04:56 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Perhaps the local strains here would be a good bet for experimentation




give it a go:thumbup: 
the more attempts we have the more knowledge we have.


Quote:

It would be a good idea to try as many strains as can be had, since you might be unlucky and end up working on a difficult strain that won't easily fruit.




well Im gettin 3 sleeves of dishes to start with so I'll have a variety. 

should I start with 1 dish to start isolating into other dishes until I have an isolate then inoculate my spawn jars with said isolates?

then once the spawn for each isolate is ready should I spawn to (insert answer here)? or just try invitro? monotub? mini-tub?


:thanx:

13:mushroom2:


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OfflinecReEp 1nc
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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: 13shrooms]
    #10987798 - 09/02/09 06:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

hmm, well since very little is known then we must experiment with everything. I guess the question should go back to the what, where, why, who and whens.
1. Liberty Caps
2. fields that usually have dung, but not on dung. What if any significance here, would the constant animal inhabitations affect the ph(or ??anything else) of soil compared to a field at a playground?
3. because all of the conditions are met that they need
4. Liberty Caps
5. In the fall, because it's colder.........but keep in mind, that if you were to create an azur or cyan bed and not keep it moist in the summer then what could you really expect in the fall. Would it be safe to say that they would need a warmer period first then cooler to fruit. The exact opposite of cubies.


Workman; why did you choose grass seed? Is it because of their natural surroundings = grass

-Also, the Pennington bird seeds i have been using now has wheat berries in it, I am sure this could be possible as spawn, somebody has to have it.

No exact answers here bud, expect to fail for purposes of success


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: cReEp 1nc]
    #10987908 - 09/02/09 06:58 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I used grass seed because it has more hull than other grains.  Liberty caps are associated with grass and the mycelium is seen attached to dead grasses and grass roots.  They prefer the nitrogen enriched soils where manure was once present and where grass thrives.  They also seem to tolerate fairly soggy ground.

In my experience, the mycelium grows fairly slowly, especially on sterilized horse manure.  Room temperature seems fine for colonization (around 72F).  Although manure doesn't seem to be an ideal substrate, once fully colonized it pins readily when exposed to unsterile soil casing and cold temperatures.  But the pins don't always mature.  Invitro fruiting is unlikely.


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InvisibleDickhead
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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: Workman]
    #10987915 - 09/02/09 07:00 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

lol, great time as any to start Agar cloning practices!


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OfflinecReEp 1nc
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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: cReEp 1nc]
    #10988049 - 09/02/09 07:22 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

how about spawning grass seed

Substrate = soil/wheat straw/small amount manure(<5%)/fresh seed (to grow and weight support. Let colonize in open air, misting daily, wax paper on top to help hold in co2 while allowing fae, to mimic natural conditions I would soak then let it dry then repeat, I think that would help combat competitors from taking foot since the substrate won't be past'd or sterilized.


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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: cReEp 1nc]
    #10988177 - 09/02/09 07:44 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

pass on wax paper and case with finely shredded straw


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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: cReEp 1nc]
    #10988230 - 09/02/09 07:51 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

maybe at first it may be a good idea to try lots of different substrates. I'm going to do some research and look for info on libs in the different e-books I have on mushrooms that I've gathered from the torrents, could take a few days before I get back with some good info if at all.

I'd be inclined toward using the natural substrate like grass clippings, straw or something similar supplemented with a manure or worm castings or something. I believe that if manure colonizes slowly but it needs the nitrogen inside, a high nitrogen containing manure in a proportional amount of the substrate would sound like the optimal solution. I'm inclined to think that it preforms poorly on manure because of it's muddiness, soil may be a bad move for the substrate.

Are you sure colonizing in open air would be a good idea?


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OfflineMycoMal
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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10988301 - 09/02/09 08:04 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

This thread has a lot of info on the Liberty Caps. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/2644234


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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: Workman]
    #10988577 - 09/02/09 08:57 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Workman said:
I used grass seed because it has more hull than other grains.  Liberty caps are associated with grass and the mycelium is seen attached to dead grasses and grass roots.  They prefer the nitrogen enriched soils where manure was once present and where grass thrives.  They also seem to tolerate fairly soggy ground.

In my experience, the mycelium grows fairly slowly, especially on sterilized horse manure.  Room temperature seems fine for colonization (around 72F).  Although manure doesn't seem to be an ideal substrate, once fully colonized it pins readily when exposed to unsterile soil casing and cold temperatures.  But the pins don't always mature.  Invitro fruiting is unlikely.




so here's my notes so far

(sterilized PF-tek style) grass seed/verm/brf/coir  - for 1type of spawn.

any other combos of mix?  feel free to suggest any combos for spawn or substrate.

and maybe for a sub a mix: (all pasteurized) grass clippings/straw/verm/spentcoffeegrounds(nitrogen)/coir/a low% of manure/gypsum .  that sound like a good mix for a substrate try???

cased in a 1/4"-1/2" MG-MC dirt.

in a small monotub? shotty? tray in a FC?

input needed.:thanx:

13:mushroom2:


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Offlinemushroomhunter10
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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: 13shrooms]
    #10989072 - 09/02/09 10:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I would just do this.

Take some "grass seed+grass(and roots)+dirt+manure+coffee+5% chicken manure", blend it in a blender.


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: Workman]
    #10991539 - 09/03/09 11:32 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Workman said:
I used grass seed because it has more hull than other grains.  Liberty caps are associated with grass and the mycelium is seen attached to dead grasses and grass roots.  They prefer the nitrogen enriched soils where manure was once present and where grass thrives.  They also seem to tolerate fairly soggy ground.

In my experience, the mycelium grows fairly slowly, especially on sterilized horse manure.  Room temperature seems fine for colonization (around 72F).  Although manure doesn't seem to be an ideal substrate, once fully colonized it pins readily when exposed to unsterile soil casing and cold temperatures.  But the pins don't always mature.  Invitro fruiting is unlikely.




I just learned from Alan this species is nearly identical to P. mexicana.  If that is the case why not trying imitating a cold grow of that species?  Just lower the temperatures and voila!  Easy Liberty cap grow.

:justdontknow:


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10992007 - 09/03/09 01:14 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Although P. mexicana has a similar appearance and habitat preference to P. semilanceata, they are not in the same section and not that closely related.


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: Workman]
    #10992227 - 09/03/09 02:08 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I looked over the macro and micro morphology and they seem close.  Alan's statement was:

Quote:

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

It seems libs don't like the chemical additives that they are fed these days.




Psilocybe mexicana is almost the same as the liberty cap (but placed in a different section of Psilocybe by Guzman due to a silly 8 micron spore size dividing line) and they like horse fields also.  Probably for the same reason. 








UK Season 09

That what made me think to set up an experiment in that way.  I'd say it's worth a try for some cultivator.

Have both species been sequenced?  That would be some interesting information too.


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10994045 - 09/03/09 08:18 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

As far as I know, Psilocybe mexicana hasn't been sequenced, but its close relative, Psilocybe tampanensis has.  P. semilanceata has also been sequenced so we can at least compare those two.

Checking the literature Psilocybe semilanceata is very close to Psilocybe silvatica and surprisingly close to Psilocybe stuntzii (section Stuntzae)  The next closest (sequenced) relatives are P. liniformans, P. fimetaria and P. venenata (all section Semilanceatae).

Psilocybe tampanensis is on a different branch but is placed somewhat close to the Japanese representatives of the section Zapotecorum (P. argentipes and P. subcaerulipes).  Apparently, no representatives of the section Cordisporae have been sequenced but I expect that they are even closer to P. tampanensis (section Mexicanae).

So although Guzman's sections are not in total agreement with the very limited DNA results, he did pretty well.  His weakest section is the Stuntzae which is primarily characterized by having a ring (annulus).  The only other species in that section that has been sequenced is the Japanese version of Psilocybe subaeruginescens, which is closer to P. cubensis than any other sequenced species and very far from the section Semilanceatae which harbors P. stuntzii.

So back to the point, all the bluing Psilocybes are closely related and are going to share some common features.  But if we accept Psilocybe tampanensis as a substitute for Psilocybe mexicana, then it follows that P. mexicana is not a particularly close relative to Psilocybe semilanceata despite similarities in habit and appearance.


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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: Workman]
    #10994903 - 09/03/09 10:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I ordered my Intermediate Agar Culturing Kit from www.Sporeworks.com and picked up some inoculation loops earlier today now Im just waiting on my spores from a Shroomerite friend then I can start isolating for spawn attempts.:thumbup: 

Im anxious!

:scaryshroom::congrats:

13:mushroom2:


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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: 13shrooms]
    #10995954 - 09/04/09 01:08 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

3 sleeves is less than you may think, if you plan to work on other projects while doing this you might need more. I did a bunch of sectoring when I first got mine and I think I went through 3 sleeves in a couple of months. It's worth noting that you can find 300 dish (15 sleeve) cases for bout $100 usd or so. I don't intend to badmouth the sponsors or anything, but anywhere you go the markup on a small amount of sleeves is pretty ridiculous. You will probibly want to buy a larger case next time.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10996024 - 09/04/09 01:22 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

yeah, agreed, 60 dishes is a good start just for this. 
its the only thing Im doing on agar for a while, Im sure Ill get more down the road. :wink:

this is my first attempt at agar work also.  so I have quite the task ahead of me but I feel up to it as long as I get some shroomery support along the way.:thumbup:

I was thinking about using the tall 1/2 pint jars for test spawn runs, until I find a spawn mix the myc really likes then once that is established work on small substrate mixes for fruiting, then IF that's accomplished, a bulk attempt in a 18gal monotub.  then repeat to get a good indoor strain.:print:  and share said prints.:sun:


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: Workman]
    #10996221 - 09/04/09 01:59 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Awesome reply, thanks.  I am a bit out of my league when it comes to sections within this genus.  As I thought about this during the afternoon I was wondering, does anyone here know how a section is defined (in Psilocybe)?

I will have a bit more to say on this after the holiday.  Right now I am overdue for some much needed R&R.

Have a good one.  :beer:


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Invisibleelemental420
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Re: "Indoor Liberty Caps Community Tek" (work in progress) [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10996245 - 09/04/09 02:03 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Sorry for the off subject question but are liberty caps potent?

Sorry if Im not allowed to ask that here but figured some of you may know.

Thnx <3 Ele


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