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OfflinePooGrower
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Do You Think This idea from Pf Tek will work?
    #1094558 - 11/28/02 09:00 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I had extra brf verm mix left over from my jars tonight and a shit load of syringes so i thought id expeirment. Heres what i did.
1. took a 8 inch square baking pan 3 inches deep
2. poured just enough verm to cover bottom
3. added about 2 1/4 inch of brf verm substrate
4. then added about half a inch of verm on top of that
5. its now in the toaster oven at 200 degrees ill leave it there for about an hour
IM THEN GONNA SARAN WRAP THE TOP AND STICK IT IN INCUBATION AT 80 TO 84 ONCE THE substrate has colonized completely i was thinking i could just set it in a terrium at 70 75 using perlite and a fish tank heater for humidity.
DO YOU THINK THIS WILL WORK?
ARE THERE ANY CHANGES I CAN MAKE TO GET THE BEST RESULTS?
ANY COMMENTS ON ANYTHING ABOUT THIS WOULD BE GREAT
im inculating it with 2 syringes of 2 strains on each half Gulf Coast and Acadian Coast. THANKS


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: Do You Think This idea from Pf Tek will work? [Re: PooGrower]
    #1094562 - 11/28/02 09:02 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

If I was betting on it, I'd bet you'll grow green before you grow shrooms, but hey, I'm not a betting man. Good Luck, you'll need it.


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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: Do You Think This idea from Pf Tek will work? [Re: Skikid16]
    #1094603 - 11/28/02 09:25 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I'll be interested to see how it turns out


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InvisibleBi0TeK
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Re: Do You Think This idea from Pf Tek will work? [Re: PooGrower]
    #1094687 - 11/28/02 10:34 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry, I don't understand because you weren't very clear. You added the colonized substrate, put verm ontop and then shoved it in an oven ???!!!


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: Do You Think This idea from Pf Tek will work? [Re: Bi0TeK]
    #1094700 - 11/28/02 10:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I think it was just plain, uncolonized brf which he was gonna inoculate after sterilization.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Do You Think This idea from Pf Tek will work? [Re: PooGrower]
    #1094784 - 11/28/02 11:37 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Some similar experiments have been performed with jars.

To make this work, you will need to heat it dry at 300 degrees F for about two hours, then ad sterilized water.

Anything with water in it cannot get above 212 degrees, you need at least 250 to sterilize. Pure water isn't quite so picky, boiling should be good enough.

You might could get by with wet substrate if you sealed it up with aluminum foil really well, and baked it at 300 for 2 hours, but you would have to ad more water since you would loose alot in the process.

You might could use a huge panwith a lid big enough to fit the substrate pan and water in and bake it for at least 2 hours at 300, this would be similar to steaming in a pot for an hour.


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: Do You Think This idea from Pf Tek will work? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1094797 - 11/28/02 11:45 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Even if it didn't contaminate, it'd be inefficient. Lets say in the tray he has the equivilant of 3 1/2pints of brf, it will take longer for all of that to colonize, than it would if you just made 3 1/2 jars and let them colonize and then case them.


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InvisibleEffedS
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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: PooGrower]
    #1094810 - 11/28/02 11:53 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)



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OfflineShaw
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Re: Do You Think This idea from Pf Tek will work? [Re: Effed]
    #1094978 - 11/29/02 01:18 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

says who? What's your sorce for that info?
I've had no problems mixing.

Oh, and no it won't work. It's not impossible, but you will fail.


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Edited by Shaw (11/29/02 01:22 AM)


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Invisiblezeta
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Re: Do You Think This idea from Pf Tek will work? [Re: PooGrower]
    #1095289 - 11/29/02 03:04 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry but this is completely doomed


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Offlinecanid
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Re: Do You Think This idea from Pf Tek will work? [Re: PooGrower]
    #1095499 - 11/29/02 06:06 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

grain must be sterilized. 200 f. is not adequate for this task.
also, it is nessecary (unless you have a state of the art clean room) to fully colonise grain/grain-based substrates before adding to a casing or birthing.
i would recomend reading more on casing to get a feel for the proscess(es). the easiest casings are fully colonised brf cakes (ala PF Tek/ MMGG) crunbles into a tray, then cased and birthed.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Do You Think This idea from Pf Tek will work? [Re: PooGrower]
    #1095514 - 11/29/02 06:34 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Questions,
How will you know when the substrate is fully colonized ? Peaking inside the pans ?
How do you know if the substrate is contaminated or not ?
When did you innoculate ? After or before baking the pans ?
:grin:
Notes,
Two strains in the same substrate will not become simbiotic but will fight for substrate, so the results could be just one strain poorly fruiting , the two strains poorly fruiting or not fruiting at all, IT IS A WASTE.
I'm not saying you shouldn't experiment but next time you post your thoughts, try to think about the whole process and any probable flaw, you obviously lack some knowlodge and experience, try to be good on what is known, then try to be imaginative.

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
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Offlinecanid
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Re: Do You Think This idea from Pf Tek will work? [Re: MAIA]
    #1095530 - 11/29/02 07:08 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

maia, she/he will learn.
poogrower, innovation tends to be more effective once you obtain a working knowlege of convention. good luck your endevours.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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Offlinefungor
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Re: Do You Think This idea from Pf Tek will work? [Re: PooGrower]
    #1095533 - 11/29/02 07:20 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

You're funny. You remind me of Jeff K. :smirk: 


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Do You Think This idea from Pf Tek will work? [Re: MAIA]
    #1095541 - 11/29/02 07:36 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

>Two strains in the same substrate will not become simbiotic but will fight for
>substrate, so the results could be just one strain poorly fruiting , the two strains
>poorly fruiting or not fruiting at all, IT IS A WASTE.

Someone might disagree: Stamets writes:

"Theoretically, the germination of spores in mass creates multitudes of strains that will compete with one another for nutrients. This has been long accepted as one of the Ten Commandments of Mushroom Culture. Scientists in China, whose knowledge had not been contaminated by such preconceptions first developed spore-mass inoculation techniques to an industrial level. Only recently have Western mycologist recognized that a large community of spore matings behaves quite differently than paired individuals. San Antonio and Hanners (1984) are some of the first Western mycologists to realize that grain spawn of Oyster mushrooms could be effectively created via spore-mass inoculation.
The most aggressive strains out-race the least aggressive strains to capture the intended habitat.
Recent studies have shown that these aggressive strains overpower and invade the cellular network of competing strains.
Dr. Alan Rayner (1988) in studies at the University of Bath described this form of genetic theft as "non-self fusions" between genetically different mycelial systems within the same species. This ability to adapt has made fungi one of the most successful examples of evolution in the biological arena.
Spore-mass fermentation techniques are not yet widely used by North American or European cultivators. Concern for preserving strain stability, lack of experience, equipment, and intellectual conflicts are contributing factors. In mushroom culture, intransigence to new ideas has prevailed, often because the slightest variation from the norm has resulted in expensive failures. Since the health of any economy is based on its diversity, the emergence of organically minded gourmet mushroom growers is creating a fertile intellectual habitat for many innovative technologies."


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Do You Think This idea from Pf Tek will work? [Re: Anno]
    #1095670 - 11/29/02 11:11 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Good reading Anno.
Can't see where Stamets disagree with what i've wrote though. I'm strictly refering to P. Cubensis but it's applied to any Psylocibe specie i think. Biodiversity means variation in biological characteristics, from what i can see in that text, some people are having success with oister mushrooms, Psylocibes could be different but anyway, that's not really the point, all we can use for now is experience. From what i've read in this forums, mixing strains of cubensis have no benefits at all and in most of the cases they produce miserable flushes, that's why i say it's a waste.
My whole point is Two strains in the same substrate will not become simbiotic . The text states that: The most aggressive strains out-race the least aggressive strains to capture the intended habitat.

MAIA


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Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
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OfflineShaw
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Re: Do You Think This idea from Pf Tek will work? [Re: PooGrower]
    #1095678 - 11/29/02 11:21 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Has anyone here actually mixed 2 strains of cubies? Everyone says not to, but i want to know who actually did it? I for one, have actually done it, and had good results. If your just making assumptions you havn't actually tried, or don't have a source to back it up, you can stop posting your assumptions. I'm not saying it's ideal or that everyone should do it. I'm just saying i did it, and got good results, plus it was fun to have 2 strains fruit off one trey at the same and different times. I want to hear about the expiraments you did, or the info you read by people who did. Anno, i apreciate the sourced info.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Do You Think This idea from Pf Tek will work? [Re: Shaw]
    #1095689 - 11/29/02 11:33 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I cased 2 stains in the same tray, each in it?s half, and they fruited nicely.

Never inoculated with 2 strains at the same time though.

Will try it today.


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OfflineShaw
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Re: Do You Think This idea from Pf Tek will work? [Re: Anno]
    #1095713 - 11/29/02 11:48 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I knew someone else had to have. Mine was 2 strains of rye spawn on dung. I don't remember exactly where it was, but someone posted a picture of pf jars almost fully colonized with 2 different strains.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Do You Think This idea from Pf Tek will work? [Re: Anno]
    #1095811 - 11/29/02 12:45 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

>Two strains in the same substrate will not become simbiotic but will fight for
>substrate, so the results could be just one strain poorly fruiting , the two strains
>poorly fruiting or not fruiting at all, IT IS A WASTE.

I think he was talking about spore races, rather than strains, that stamets quote referred to strains, which may not apply.

I dunno.


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