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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna
    #10942168 - 08/26/09 02:53 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Foreword:

In the book ‘Left In the Dark’, a culmination of over fifteen years of independent research into human evolution, the authors postulate that it was not always so; the universal myth of a pre-historic Golden Age, they maintain, is a racial memory that reflects our primate evolution in an arboreal, rainforest environment in which humans possessed mental and psychic abilities that have since become lost or atrophied in the profane ages that followed.


And here I thought Dennis was the sober, scientific brother. Is there even the slightest evidence that our ancestors had psychic abilities?

Nope.

Just more claptrap to make a buck. Put this right alongside Pinchbeck's horse pucky.


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OfflineTranquil Toad
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10942248 - 08/26/09 03:03 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Ya but its so much more interesting than mainstream science. I'd read it just for entertainment purposes.

I have no idea what his argument is, but did you read it to find out? Who knows, maybe the guy has some compelling evidence.

Edited by Tranquil Toad (08/26/09 03:05 PM)

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InvisibleMnboardin
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: Tranquil Toad]
    #10958862 - 08/28/09 11:25 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Did you read the book?


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:hamletmonkey:

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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: Mnboardin]
    #10962093 - 08/29/09 04:08 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

That's what I think about a lot of the mckenna's stuff, they are good reads. I rarely agree with a mckenna all the way through a book but it almost makes it more thought provoking. The mushroom/monkey evolution theory is very plausible, I like to think it happened that way. Invisible Landscape gets into the holographic mind idea which is a very cool, I would also like to think it happens that way.

In the end all the thinkers put some iffy shit out there, you take some and leave some  from all of them and together we should have a pretty good picture.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: grebarius]
    #10962193 - 08/29/09 04:32 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The mushroom/monkey evolution theory is very plausible, I




Not even remotely.


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OfflineTranquil Toad
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10962245 - 08/29/09 04:44 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

The mushroom/monkey evolution theory is very plausible, I




Not even remotely.




I'd say its remotely plausible. What exactly makes it an impossibility? Either way it isn't something that can really be argued for/against, since we cannot go back and check. It will remain an entertaining speculation.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: Tranquil Toad]
    #10962280 - 08/29/09 04:50 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

So we cannot measure the (non-existent) effects of psilocybin on DNA?

Um, OK...


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OfflineTranquil Toad
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10962330 - 08/29/09 04:59 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Was his idea that psilocybin actually changed the DNA structure of primitive man, or that the effects of the drug catalyzed a change in his psychology - specifically language formation?

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: Tranquil Toad]
    #10962354 - 08/29/09 05:04 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Uh huh. A speech center developed and was passed on without altering DNA. Nice.


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OfflineTranquil Toad
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10962442 - 08/29/09 05:21 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Does it even have to involve DNA at all? If early man had the vocal cords already there to create speech, it would be a matter of learning and passing that knowledge down to subsequent generations. It could be entirely socially based. Just as skills like hunting and tool making would not be written into the DNA of early man - rather kept as a collective knowledge among a group and taught to their offspring - would language not function the same way?

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: Tranquil Toad]
    #10962535 - 08/29/09 05:40 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

And psilocybin taught me how to make a fusion reactor out of a blender and an old CRT.

This sort of speculation with nary a fact to base it on is called science fiction.


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OfflineTranquil Toad
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10962613 - 08/29/09 05:54 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

His main basis of this speculation was the quality of synesthesia that psilocybin produces. The crossing of boundaries of the senses would cause man to associate sounds with objects. This is what language is, after all - an audio symbol for something. So his idea isn't just completely pulled out of his ass, it has some basis. I agree, at this point it is pretty much untestable, so we really have no idea and it remains just an entertaining notion. But to say it is not even remotely possible is being closed minded, IMO.

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OfflineElevatedMinds
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: Tranquil Toad]
    #10962796 - 08/29/09 06:39 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

The only way to actually test this theory would be to give certain groups of people and their subsequent offspring psilocybin for a few generations and see if any new ways of communication such as telepathy develop... its probably not something we will see in our lifetime, but its always a possibility...


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: ElevatedMinds]
    #10962798 - 08/29/09 06:40 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

:lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineTranquil Toad
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10962812 - 08/29/09 06:43 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

:lol: we can barely get permission to test for psychological benefits on the terminally ill, it will indeed be indicative of a new paradigm if one of terrence mckenna's theories got the green light for testing.

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OfflineSventington
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: ElevatedMinds]
    #10962818 - 08/29/09 06:44 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ElevatedMinds said:
The only way to actually test this theory would be to give certain groups of people and their subsequent offspring psilocybin for a few generations and see if any new ways of communication such as telepathy develop... its probably not something we will see in our lifetime, but its always a possibility...




How much psilocybin and how often? And at what age?

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: Tranquil Toad]
    #10962827 - 08/29/09 06:47 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Don't you think that trying to get the permission for this kind of research would make things even harder for psychedelic research to happen? It's a funny idea, but very distant from being realistic IMO. :tongue:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineElevatedMinds
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10962939 - 08/29/09 07:09 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Haha yeah its very unlikely for us to see, but its always interesting to think about. The thing I have noticed about Psilocybin is that it won't let us percieve anything beyond what our psyche is capable of percieving...
So in essence, if we arent open to accept the phenomena, it won't happen. Thats why when people use the drug simply for a "high", thats all they get out of it. It would cause damage to their psyche to think anything else other than their pre-conceived notions of reality.

This study would have to happen in an underground environment with like minded individuals... If someone develops telepathy, the proof can come later on through multiple occurences induced by the same thing. Fuck the laws about it, the US government still wont accept marijuana... Mushroom laws won't change in our lifetime while people are still afraid of altered states...


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Edited by ElevatedMinds (08/29/09 07:19 PM)

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OfflineCannashroom
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10965888 - 08/30/09 12:22 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
So we cannot measure the (non-existent) effects of psilocybin on DNA?

Um, OK...




From The Maps manual:

Psilocybin and Gene Expression

When activating 5HT2A receptors, psilocybin and LSD both increase expression of a
number of genes, including egr-1, egr-2, period1, Nor1 and l-KappaBetaAlpha
(Gonzalez-Maeso et al. 2003; Nichols and Sanders-Bush 2002). Psilocybin may be
associated with a greater increase in egr-1. The significance of psilocybin effects on gene
expression is uncertain. However, changes in gene expression may play a role in the
ability of psilocybin-containing mushrooms to interrupt cycles of cluster headache, or
cluster headache period, as discussed below in “Safety and Toxicity” (Sewell et al. 2006).

The drugs can act on DNA in a variety of ways:  by activating receptors that induce gene expression, directly acting on regulator proteins, etc.

Ayahuasca has been shown to change the gene expression for serotonin use.

And these changes can be passes on through generations.  The mother gives RNA, and proteins to the developing offspring.  And the levels of these can play a big role in development.


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"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: ElevatedMinds]
    #10966008 - 08/30/09 12:43 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The thing I have noticed about Psilocybin is that it won't let us percieve anything beyond what our psyche is capable of percieving...




Really? A chemical has volition?


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Offlinegrebarius
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10969526 - 08/30/09 09:33 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I don't agree with half the shit mckenna says but he wasn't saying DNA was being altered. He simply SPECULATED that the altered state brought on by mushrooms may have been a catalyst for change. Mushrooms can breakdown conditioning and barriers in our minds why couldn't it do the same for our ancestors, creating new possibilities.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: grebarius]
    #10969945 - 08/30/09 10:46 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mushrooms can breakdown conditioning and barriers in our minds



Really? And this conclusion is based upon what?

Quote:

creating new possibilities.



Uh huh. So what newfound power (such as speech) have you discovered and how will it be passed on to your children?


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InvisibleMnboardin
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10971620 - 08/31/09 09:24 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Foreword:

In the book �Left In the Dark�, a culmination of over fifteen years of independent research into human evolution, the authors postulate that it was not always so; the universal myth of a pre-historic Golden Age, they maintain, is a racial memory that reflects our primate evolution in an arboreal, rainforest environment in which humans possessed mental and psychic abilities that have since become lost or atrophied in the profane ages that followed.


And here I thought Dennis was the sober, scientific brother. Is there even the slightest evidence that our ancestors had psychic abilities?

Nope.

Just more claptrap to make a buck. Put this right alongside Pinchbeck's horse pucky.




Why did you feel it was necessary to criticize a book that you haven't even read?

Read the book, and then come back and tell us what you think before riding it off as "claptrap", "Pinchbeck's horsepucky." And after you read it, write a review of it, pointing out its weak points and anything else you disagree with.

By the way, the book isn't even authored by Dennis McKenna, only the foreword is.


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:hamletmonkey:

Edited by Mnboardin (08/31/09 09:25 AM)

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: Mnboardin]
    #10972487 - 08/31/09 12:55 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Really? I must be conned by every single conman first before determining such? Must I read every single self-help book with the word quantum in the title to know it has nothing to do with physics?

There is zero evidence for psychic abilities now or in the past. I need read no further.

And yes, like an idiot, I actually read Pinchbeck and it was as bad and as vacant as I thought. He brings forth nothing new whatsoever.


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OfflineElevatedMinds
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10972623 - 08/31/09 01:30 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:

There is zero evidence for psychic abilities now or in the past. I need read no further.






You can't come to your conclusion so early. There hasn't been enough scientific studies on psychedelics and altered states to really make a judgement as to whether or not they exist. Many people have experienced it while in an altered state.

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65126
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=426807
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread32216/pg1


There are a number of people claming it has happened... To completely deny the phenomena before thorough testing is very closed minded. It's like calling us all that have experienced it complete whackos.


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InvisibleMnboardin
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10972876 - 08/31/09 02:22 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Really? I must be conned by every single conman first before determining such? Must I read every single self-help book with the word quantum in the title to know it has nothing to do with physics?"

Have you forgotten how misleading generalizations and stereotypes can be? So, be like Socrates. Meet every man before assuming he is a conman, and read every self-help book with the word quantum before assuming that it has nothing to do with physics?

"There is zero evidence for psychic abilities now or in the past. I need read no further." Do experiences of others not count? Because I have had experiences of psychic ability during and after a few psychedelic experiences.



Anyway, I am going to read this book to see if anything new or interesting is presented.


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:hamletmonkey:

Edited by Mnboardin (08/31/09 02:30 PM)

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: Mnboardin]
    #10972961 - 08/31/09 02:37 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Do experiences of others not count? Because I have had experiences of psychic ability during and after a few psychedelic experiences.





No, stories do not count as evidence for anything. Self delusion is a unique human ability as is evidenced by every single 'psychic' that has been voluntarily tested and failed miserably.

Read Huston Smith, psychedelic pioneer and author, wherein he was certain of a profound and psychic experience with a fellow tripper. After the comedown he spoke to the fellow tripper and discovered it was all in his imagination and there was no communication nor connection whatsoever.

Despite popular opinion, belief and certainty do not make it so.


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OfflineElevatedMinds
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10973043 - 08/31/09 02:51 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

That doesn't make it an impossibility. You have been biased in every comment you have posted from the point of view that mystical occurances are fake... There's no evidence for your side of the claim either, other than the obvious fakes and scam artists.


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InvisibleMnboardin
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10973049 - 08/31/09 02:52 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

So, only stories of people supporting your conclusion count?

Yes, your belief and your certainty does not nullify the possibility of people experiencing psychic phenomena.

This is interesting, "every single 'psychic' that has been voluntarily tested and failed miserably." Could you elaborate?


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:hamletmonkey:

Edited by Mnboardin (08/31/09 02:58 PM)

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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: Mnboardin]
    #10973395 - 08/31/09 03:40 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Mod edit: Debate the topic not the person. Read the rest of the rules here before posting again:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4526664

Edited by Diploid (08/31/09 05:25 PM)

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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: grebarius]
    #10973494 - 08/31/09 03:49 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)


:congrats:


--------------------
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Edited by ElevatedMinds (08/31/09 03:57 PM)

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: grebarius]
    #10973529 - 08/31/09 03:53 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Hey now, don't make me become a PS+P moderator again.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: grebarius]
    #10973582 - 08/31/09 03:58 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I'm not sure what to say to you if you don't understand how shit you were taught as a kid can dissolve after you start doing drugs.



Seeing as you have provided nothing other than a flat declaration, there is nothing to base an understanding upon.

Quote:

Don't let your dick-in-everyone's-ass attitude...



I see the mushroom spirit has opened you to cosmic love and brotherhood.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: ElevatedMinds]
    #10973619 - 08/31/09 04:04 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I find it interesting that you find insults to be commendable.

Guess I need to eat more shrooms. Perhaps in time, I too, can learn to discard reason and thought in favor of the always convincing and emotionally mature ad hominem.


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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (08/31/09 09:06 PM)

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10973671 - 08/31/09 04:12 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

DENNIS MCKENNA wins, you loose. :sun:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: Middleman]
    #10973706 - 08/31/09 04:18 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Loose? That does not make sense.


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Offlinesolstice
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10974095 - 08/31/09 05:19 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Mode Edit: If you can't contribute something constructive, then stay out of these debates.

This discussion is about Dennis McKenna, not OrgoneConclusion. Debate the topic and leave people out of it.

Read the rest of the rules here before posting again:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4526664

Edited by Diploid (08/31/09 05:27 PM)

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OfflineElevatedMinds
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: solstice]
    #10974380 - 08/31/09 06:06 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

This topic's done... It's not a philosophical debate, its OrgoneConclusion arguing with everybody about why he's right. No matter how many different sides of the rubix cube are presented, his view will not budge.

For anyone actually interested in READING the book BEFORE they come to a conclusion, go here: http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=vOj_GZ2-1dEC&dq=left+in+the+dark+gynn&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=uETJEOEuSu&sig=-faBqyN14XK0dIhHAf27VpBhM-0&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result#v=onepage&q=&f=false


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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10978274 - 09/01/09 09:27 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
And psilocybin taught me how to make a fusion reactor out of a blender and an old CRT.

This sort of speculation with nary a fact to base it on is called science fiction.




i like how you can have an argument based on speculation but when someone posts what they think is a possibility all of a sudden it's stupid. It's an opinion of mine that if someone is going to post a topic for discussion that's as ambiguous as human evolution, they should have an open mind, otherwise they would just come off as an asshole.


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Insanity in individuals is something rare -- but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule. -Nietzche

What luck for the rulers that men do not think. -Adolf Hitler

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: sandman3698]
    #10978795 - 09/01/09 11:13 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Declaring a poster to be an asshole tells us nothing of the poster and a lot about your perspective on people.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: ElevatedMinds]
    #10978873 - 09/01/09 11:30 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ElevatedMinds said:
This topic's done... It's not a philosophical debate, its OrgoneConclusion arguing with everybody about why he's right. No matter how many different sides of the rubix cube are presented, his view will not budge.

For anyone actually interested in READING the book BEFORE they come to a conclusion, go here: http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=vOj_GZ2-1dEC&dq=left+in+the+dark+gynn&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=uETJEOEuSu&sig=-faBqyN14XK0dIhHAf27VpBhM-0&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result#v=onepage&q=&f=false




Want some cheeze to go with that whining?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10978934 - 09/01/09 11:41 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Declaring a poster to be an asshole tells us nothing of the poster and a lot about your perspective on people.




Wasn't declaring anything. I said would come off as an asshole. Not that the poster is for sure one.


--------------------
Insanity in individuals is something rare -- but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule. -Nietzche

What luck for the rulers that men do not think. -Adolf Hitler

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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: sandman3698]
    #10979010 - 09/01/09 11:51 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Trust me, he is.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: sandman3698]
    #10979119 - 09/01/09 12:08 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

sandman3698 said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Declaring a poster to be an asshole tells us nothing of the poster and a lot about your perspective on people.




Wasn't declaring anything. I said would come off as an asshole. Not that the poster is for sure one.




No matter how 'clever' your phrasology to escape the no flaming rule, the point remains.


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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: Icelander]
    #10979127 - 09/01/09 12:09 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Trust me, he is.:satansmoking:




And that is why we are friends. :hug:


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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10979173 - 09/01/09 12:14 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

sandman3698 said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Declaring a poster to be an asshole tells us nothing of the poster and a lot about your perspective on people.




Wasn't declaring anything. I said would come off as an asshole. Not that the poster is for sure one.




No matter how 'clever' your phrasology to escape the no flaming rule, the point remains.




LOL wasn't trying to be clever, i phrased it like that because i don't know you personally and therefore can't declare that you are in fact an asshole. So your point doesn't remain.


--------------------
Insanity in individuals is something rare -- but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule. -Nietzche

What luck for the rulers that men do not think. -Adolf Hitler

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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: sandman3698]
    #10979687 - 09/01/09 01:31 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

The point remains that you disparage someone that holds an alternate viewpoint. Do you feel this an emotionally mature stance?


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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10979915 - 09/01/09 02:08 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
The point remains that you disparage someone that holds an alternate viewpoint. Do you feel this an emotionally mature stance?




LOL and how am i doing that? i never posted my viewpoint.
What i said was that you post an argument that is ambiguous in nature, then when someone posts an idea that's not on your side but just as ambiguous as your post you try and cut them down. Do you feel this is an intellectually mature stance?


--------------------
Insanity in individuals is something rare -- but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule. -Nietzche

What luck for the rulers that men do not think. -Adolf Hitler

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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: sandman3698]
    #10979964 - 09/01/09 02:15 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

sandman3698 said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
The point remains that you disparage someone that holds an alternate viewpoint. Do you feel this an emotionally mature stance?




LOL and how am i doing that? i never posted my viewpoint.
What i said was that you post an argument that is ambiguous in nature, then when someone posts an idea that's not on your side but just as ambiguous as your post you try and cut them down. Do you feel this is an intellectually mature stance?




I cannot help but agree.


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: solstice]
    #10980013 - 09/01/09 02:24 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I can see that the orginal topic of this thread has long been left in the dark.

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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: Tranquil Toad]
    #10980049 - 09/01/09 02:29 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Tranquil Toad said:
I can see that the orginal topic of this thread has long been left in the dark.




Yes and that's a shame because I think that's a very interesting topic. I'll check the book out because I became enamoured of this theory since I've heard Terence elaborate on it and also because I love to soak in new details about it so I can talk to people about it. People who never heard about that theory before and thus spread the idea.


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: solstice]
    #11340551 - 10/28/09 05:48 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I'll check the book out because I became enamoured of this theory since I've heard Terence elaborate on it




Ever since Terence posited that the world would usher in a new era because he and his band of vagabonds flipped out on psychedelics in the jungle, I fould it very difficult to take him seriously.


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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11340729 - 10/28/09 06:21 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

I'll check the book out because I became enamoured of this theory since I've heard Terence elaborate on it




Ever since Terence posited that the world would usher in a new era because he and his band of vagabonds flipped out on psychedelics in the jungle, I fould it very difficult to take him seriously.




I'm a bit disappointed Orgone. It's quite predictable that you'd think Terence a nut, but because of his Timewave Zero theory, not because of his jungle adventures!


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

Edited by solstice (10/28/09 06:44 PM)

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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: solstice]
    #11342263 - 10/28/09 10:17 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

solstice said:
I'm a bit disappointed Orgone. It's quite predictable that you'd think Terence a nut, but because of his Timewave Zero theory, not because of his jungle adventures!



Haha yes this ^

When I found out about Timewave Zero I was like "aaaahhhh fuck, seriously McKenna?"


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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: solstice]
    #11342570 - 10/28/09 11:03 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

His brother Dennis, thought him a headcase for his jungle conclusions.


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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11343542 - 10/29/09 04:29 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
His brother Dennis, thought him a headcase for his jungle conclusions.





I find it funny that at the beginning of this topic you seem to imply that Dennis is as nuts as his brother and now you use his judgement to form an opinion! :lolsy:

You should have stayed on holiday!


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: solstice]
    #11344166 - 10/29/09 09:31 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I posted an abstract about how psilocin affects gene expression, but as always OC, you just ignore it.

Furthermore, DNA makes encodes proteins, it doesn't pass on changes in linguistic ability, or psychological changes.  That stuff is mostly a mystery to science.  But OC, in his infinite wisdom can 100% deny a theory based upon his intense skepticism.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: Cannashroom]
    #11344752 - 10/29/09 11:45 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I hardly 'Always ignore' anything relevant. That is just whining on your part.

Quote:

it doesn't pass on changes in linguistic ability, or psychological changes




That's great.

1. No psychic abilities are demonstrated now or in the past.

2. Pscilocybin does not affect changes that are to be passed on.

Now go back and read the OP and tell us all how your link in any way backs those contentions put forth in the foreword of the book.

Thanks! :sun:


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Re: 'Left in the Dark' by Dennis McKenna [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11349325 - 10/29/09 11:10 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I hardly 'Always ignore' anything relevant. That is just whining on your part.

Quote:

it doesn't pass on changes in linguistic ability, or psychological changes




That's great.

1. No psychic abilities are demonstrated now or in the past.

2. Pscilocybin does not affect changes that are to be passed on.

Now go back and read the OP and tell us all how your link in any way backs those contentions put forth in the foreword of the book.

Thanks! :sun:




hmmm, your basing number 2 off of absolutely nothing.  Show me something solid to prove that other than your own dogma.  You have nothing, your just making claims you cannot back up.  I gave a study on how it can change gene expression.  It is plausible, but you disregard it all from your divine knowledge.

I doubt you know the mechanism of gene expression, so to make a claim that you know for sure this is false is just bull shit, your basing this off of NOTHING.

This is about you claiming that psilocin cannot change passable trait, but you forget other things.  How about the lessons and morals that a parent passes to a child?

It can be passed on through culture, it doesn't have to be purely biological, it makes more sense for it to be happening through different mediums.  It wasn't evolution in the biological sense.  It was evolution in the social and cultural sense.  And since we cannot measure these things, you cannot go out and say that it is all untrue.

Your die hard skepticism is faith and nothing more.

All you have is this belief that it is impossible, its not based on anything.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

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