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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: Around In Circles]
    #11763860 - 01/04/10 09:37 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

LOL @ believing that an experience on hallucinogenic drugs while the brain is still active can confirm the possibility of consciousness existing after the brain is no longer active.

I've experienced complete ego death and DMT breakthroughs; I still remain a skeptic as far as life after death goes, particularly when you realize that every aspect of consciousness we possess is regulated and controlled by specific functioning modules of neural hardware.  Ever thought that the ingestion of psychedelics could simply amplify pre-existing fantasies to nullify death anxiety?


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: deCypher]
    #11763873 - 01/04/10 09:40 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

"every aspect of consciousness we possess is regulated and controlled by specific functioning modules of neural hardware. "

That's just reductionism.  Depends on whether you want to think we're do-ers or just do-ing, I can't say either way.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: xFrockx]
    #11763889 - 01/04/10 09:44 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I don't want to reduce the mind to the brain but I do believe they're two aspects of the same fundamental substance a la neutral monism, and when you destroy one aspect you're destroying the other.  This seems the most plausible answer considering Cartesian dualism has many problems of its own.


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OfflineAround In Circles
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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: deCypher]
    #11763938 - 01/04/10 10:01 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
LOL @ believing that an experience on hallucinogenic drugs while the brain is still active can confirm the possibility of consciousness existing after the brain is no longer active.

I've experienced complete ego death and DMT breakthroughs; I still remain a skeptic as far as life after death goes, particularly when you realize that every aspect of consciousness we possess is regulated and controlled by specific functioning modules of neural hardware.




"LOL"...

:facepalm:

I am not arguing for life after death, so you aren't understanding me. "LOL" :facepalm::biggrin:

The experience of death is the realization of eternity.

As soon as we die, we no longer experience time; we experience our entire lives as one fully interactive moment and after this occurs, we forget everything and live the same life all over again in complete ignorance. We experience this because the universe is an eternal process and as the highest form of self-reflecting biology, we are granted this "realization" upon our terminus.

There is no "life after death"; there is only your life to be realized as an eternal repetition of events.

I am not touting a theory which posits that we exist after death in another state; what I am saying is that we no longer experience time and during this timeless moment, we actually choose to forget everything and we are born again into our self-same life.

And, by the way, when you die, your brain doesn't instantly die.

There is at least a period of hours where consciousness is still active.

How else would you explain Near-Death Experiences of people whom have been dead for hours?

Your little chiding is entirely fruitless, sorry. Once again, LOL! :facepalm:

From DMT, the Spirit Molecule:

"If the pineal gland were producing DMT, however, that would certainly warrant its strategic location. A DMT release directly onto the visual, auditory, and emotional centers the pineal nearly touches would profoundly affect our inner experience. We would see, hear, feel, and think things in a way unimaginable to consider for melatonin.

Because of its extraordinarily short life span of just a few minutes, DMT would also benefit from the small distances, only millimeters wide, between the pineal and important brain structures. It could diffuse directly onto these brain sites by way of the cerebrospinal fluid, without first having to enter the blood circulation. If DMT first entered the blood, MAO enzymes would destroy it long before it returned to the brain to exert its profound mental effects.

These considerations also effectively dispense with one of the major objections to the DMT theory of psychosis: the lack of differences between DMT blood levels in normal volunteers and in patients with psychosis. We now see that DMT concentrations in forearm vein blood may have little to do with its effects at discrete brain sites, sites at which DMT is broken down nearly as quickly as it is produced.

This reasoning further develops the idea that decomposing pineal tissue affects residual awareness after death. If this postmortem DMT emptied directly into the spinal fluid, simple diffusion is all it would take for it to attach to those sensory and emotional centers. A pumping heart would not be necessary."


Explain such phenomena and get back to me:


http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/10/16/cheating.near.death/index.html

"At that point, Geraghty says, her body died. She remembers watching the scene unfold -- as if from above.

"I floated right out of my body. My body was here, and I just floated away. I looked back at it once, and it was there."

Geraghty says she saw deceased loved ones, her mother and her ex-husband.

"It was very peaceful and light and beautiful. And I remember like, when you see someone you haven't seen in a while, you want to hug them, and I remember trying to reach out to my ex-husband, and he would not take my hand. And then they floated away."

Next, she says, she was overwhelmed by "massive energy, powerful, very powerful energy."

"When that was happening, there were pictures of my son and my daughter and my granddaughter, and every second, their pictures flashed in my mind, and then I came back."

What Geraghty had was a near-death experience, fairly common in people who go into sudden cardiac arrest.

Geraghty was down for 57 minutes. No blood pressure, no pulse, no oxygen, no blood flow. She was shocked 21 times before she finally came back with tales of the afterlife. "


LOL.

:facepalm:

:bigjoint:


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: Around In Circles]
    #11764219 - 01/04/10 11:16 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BrainFood said:
I am not touting a theory which posits that we exist after death in another state; what I am saying is that we no longer experience time and during this timeless moment, we actually choose to forget everything and we are born again into our self-same life.




How can we choose to do anything if we're already dead?  Choice seems to require functioning cognitive decision-making routines encoded into our working frontal lobe.

Quote:

BrainFood said:
And, by the way, when you die, your brain doesn't instantly die.

There is at least a period of hours where consciousness is still active.

How else would you explain Near-Death Experiences of people whom have been dead for hours?




I agree that that an active brain seems required to explain NDEs, but by definition these are near death experiences and thus cannot tell us anything about what happens after death.

Quote:

BrainFood said:
From DMT, the Spirit Molecule:

...




Rick Strassman has far too much ungrounded speculation in that book.  There have been no scientific studies showing that DMT is produced in the pineal gland.


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OfflineAround In Circles
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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: deCypher]
    #11764510 - 01/04/10 12:05 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

BrainFood said:
I am not touting a theory which posits that we exist after death in another state; what I am saying is that we no longer experience time and during this timeless moment, we actually choose to forget everything and we are born again into our self-same life.




How can we choose to do anything if we're already dead?  Choice seems to require functioning cognitive decision-making routines encoded into our working frontal lobe.


Quote:

BrainFood said:
And, by the way, when you die, your brain doesn't instantly die.

There is at least a period of hours where consciousness is still active.

How else would you explain Near-Death Experiences of people whom have been dead for hours?




I agree that that an active brain seems required to explain NDEs, but by definition these are near death experiences and thus cannot tell us anything about what happens after death.

Quote:

BrainFood said:
From DMT, the Spirit Molecule:

...




Rick Strassman has far too much ungrounded speculation in that book.  There have been no scientific studies showing that DMT is produced in the pineal gland.




Free-will is an illusion. End of story. :shrug:

Time doesn't exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_%28illusion%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lila

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakti

We have already discussed this before, so I see no reason why you are attempting to rehash this here.

Einstein's revelation of the universe was that time is an illusion.

"There exists, therefore, for the individual, an I-time, or subjective time. This in itself is not measurable."-- Albert Einstein.


You make little sense with your second comment; people have been legally dead and come back to report these experiences. An active brain is possible after death, as these experiences show. You are attempting to say that we cannot know anything about the after-death state because the brain was still obviously functioning in these cases so they weren't "completely" dead. Well, congratulations, obviously they didn't really die, but they were clinically dead and should have died, but they didn't. Hence why they were able to report back what they experienced when their consciousness separated from their body; a higher cortical experience of magnificent splendor and importance. These are enigmatic anomalies of great importance and you are trying to pan them off as merely "near-death" experiences. They are real-death experiences, facilitated physiologically and neurologically; only the person was lucky enough to somehow come back, which we cannot explain.

You failed to make any point there. The body isn't completely "dead", i.e. devoid of energy, for at LEAST hours after death. This means that their experiences can tell us a wealth of information about the after-death state, which has been documented at length since 1979 when Raymond Moody published his groundbreaking work, Life After Life. Since then, millions have reported similar experiences, with similar motifs and archetypes. How do you explain that? I can't wait to hear your reductionist answer.

"By definition" you failed to make any point; you just made yourself look pseudo-pedantically confused.

:facepalm:


Your third comment makes me remember just how haplessly ignorant you are.

Dr. Strassman presents his ideas that are speculative as such, leaving the rest of his very scientific work untouched. You obviously missed that in the book, or you didn't really read it. To think that you are above Dr. Strassman regarding your judgments on neurobiology is laughable.

What kind of degree are you touting?

He is the foremost expert in the world in his field and you think that he can be easily discredited because you have extremely poor reading comprehension. :facepalm::facepalm:

The speculative ideas presented in his book are hypothesis, of which this thread also happens to be; a hypothetical synthesis.

Unless conclusive tests are made neurally in vivo , we will never know about endogenous DMT and its relation to the pineal gland. Testing the pineal during a life threatening situation is currently not possible. So it remains in the realm of speculation and hypothesis.

I do not believe that we will ever know the true neurodynamics of consciousness, because metabolizing compounds are nearly impossible to scientifically measure in vivo. You cannot say yourself, nor anyone else for that matter, that the pineal gland doesn't produce DMT.

To say that since there is no scientific evidence, pineal-DMT is merely pseudoscience is just laughably ignorant.

The precursors for its production are all there and there are experiences being had by people in near-death states, mystical states, and entheogenic states that all point to a similar experience which is so psychically important that it changes their outlook on life forever.

To pan this "coincidence" as merely such is very ignorant indeed.

How do you explain such correlations?

You can't.

:bigjoint:


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Offlineevildee125
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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: Around In Circles]
    #11764763 - 01/04/10 12:58 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

brainfood, Im diggin your insights, this thread has been a great read and Ive experienced many of the things you've mentioned, on and off psychedelics.... but i gotta be honest.. some of the things your saying sure seem like quite a bummer.

"Once we come to this integration upon death, we forget everything and we do this in order to live our entire life over again in complete ignorance, because that is ultimately what the universe does; it forgets."

"All of our chasing is in "vain", however, it is the entire point of our existence."

I bring this up so that you can elaborate a bit.. from what ive read, I was under the impression the point of our existence was to gain knowledge, because through knowledge we reach god..


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OfflineAround In Circles
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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: evildee125]
    #11769239 - 01/05/10 10:27 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

evildee125 said:
brainfood, Im diggin your insights, this thread has been a great read and Ive experienced many of the things you've mentioned, on and off psychedelics.... but i gotta be honest.. some of the things your saying sure seem like quite a bummer.

"Once we come to this integration upon death, we forget everything and we do this in order to live our entire life over again in complete ignorance, because that is ultimately what the universe does; it forgets."

"All of our chasing is in "vain", however, it is the entire point of our existence."

I bring this up so that you can elaborate a bit.. from what ive read, I was under the impression the point of our existence was to gain knowledge, because through knowledge we reach god..





First and foremost, thank you for your kind words and for reading my material.

To address your inquiry about my ideas, let me reassure you that these concepts are not meant to be a “bummer”; they are actually intended to shed a positive light on the presumption that such concepts are a bummer. We live an eternal life which we ultimately, willingly, forget and this is so that each time we experience it, it is completely anew and fresh. Without this inherent forgetfulness, we would not love our lives as much as we do, or as much as we are able, because if we were always aware of eternity, we would have gotten “sick of it” a long time ago and called it quits.

The point of our existence is to come to unitive knowledge of the eternal universe, which is our Self. Once we do this, we forget everything upon accepting the universe’s inevitable will, which is our eternal life.

Since we are part and parcel of eternity, we must forget ourselves in order to subsequently (paradoxically) find ourselves.

To say that we live our lives in ignorance and that we are merely chasing our tails in “vain” is merely to say that we must live in unconsciousness in order to reach enlightenment.

We must have black upon which we can measure our proverbial white.

Nothing is in vain. I put it in quotations because I meant it only figuratively.

If you check out my website in my signature, I explain this quite exhaustively.

I will provide you with a quote from my site to answer your question more in-depth; it is under the section, "Destiny: God/The Universe's Inescapable Will":


"Contrary to popular belief, believing in mans eternal nature is not the height of egotistic thinking, it is merely the height of human understanding; it is the proverbial ceiling of the human mind. The universe, as understood by Einstein, is an eternal event in which time does not exist and all seemingly separate events coexist simultaneously. The interconnectedness of Einstein’s universe implies our eternal nature. If the universe is eternal and intrinsically interconnected, as believed to be and "proven" by Einstein, then we are also by default eternal as well. It doesn't matter what happens to us as material, biological (temporary) beings, we will still exist eternally as a parcel of eternity. (Even though we may not be able to realize it comprehensively until we die, this is in fact the direct ramification of Einstein’s universe, of which I subscribe to.) In order to transcend our biology, of which time is merely a construct, we must open our minds to this idea of eternity. The only way to “transcend" death is not to continue life; that is merely to prolong the "problem". The way to transcend death is by coming to the unitive understanding that death isn’t even “real” in the way that we view it; it is merely a transition state between being and not-being; it is not the end of our existence. To believe that death is the end of our existence is actually the height of egotistic thinking; to believe that we are separate entities from the universe with our own special idiosyncratic existence. This is not the case. We all coexist as one whole which is the eternal universe.

Also contrary to popular belief, this philosophy of eternity is definitely not cynical and nor is it akin to throwing ones hands in the air, as many would assert. It is an empowering philosophy, because it puts one in a position to not only change how they think about the world, but to actually do something about it. Knowledge of eternity transforms one morally; when we begin to realize the ultimate causes of our actions and begin to move in a more moral direction as a result, positive feedback carries us ever higher toward understanding our self, given that we do not succumb to any temptations along the
way. It is a philosophy devoted to self-knowledge, because we must understand our self in order to understand the root cause of our actions and subsequently, all actions. We must surrender all ambition, because no-one is special and we are all cut from the same exact cloth. Thinking otherwise is dangerous along the lines of a messianic complex/schizophrenia type pathology. All truth is subjective. Just because you may be more conscious than others doesn't mean that you are special; it just means that you are playing the eternal game of seeking correctly, that is why you may notice more and more peculiarities. Once you've been playing the game long enough unconsciously, you begin to notice that it is, in fact, just a game and you will begin to wake up from your dream. However, don't take the game too seriously or you'll lose just as badly as someone who doesn't even know that they're playing. Remember, we're all still children in the face of the ineffable Game no matter how old we are. Everything we experience is an illusion of the game, however, this illusion is meant as a tool for self-reflection. Transform yourself morally, try to do the "right" thing more often and most importantly, try to love more and fear less. That is all that it comes down to. The only person you can prove anything to is yourself, so start doing it. All else is folly in the eyes of eternity."


I hope I was able to clear this up for you; if not, just let me know and I will take more time to explain it to you.

Have a good one.

Peace.

:psychsplit:


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Offlineevildee125
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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: Around In Circles]
    #11769289 - 01/05/10 10:45 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

thanks for the reply.. i really have enjoyed reading the thread.. one last question.. why do we forget our infancy..??


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OfflineAround In Circles
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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: evildee125]
    #11769391 - 01/05/10 11:08 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

evildee125 said:
thanks for the reply.. i really have enjoyed reading the thread.. one last question.. why do we forget our infancy..??




For the very same reason we cannot remember our first birthday; it serves zero "purpose" for our current existence to remember it. In fact, it is necessary to forget it, so that we may store other, more "important" information later on in life.

We forget so that we may take in new information that is viewed as being "more important" physiologically and psychologically. If we remembered our entire lives, we would be perpetually haunted by the phantoms of our past. Forgotten memories fuel our unconscious; all forgotten memories end up in the unconscious for later "release" during archetypal moments which call for them.

We forget most of what is in our past, save highly emotional moments, because we are being pulled toward a more "important" event; death.

In death, we realize, that in forgetting our past, we are setting ourselves up for our future.

Only the highly emotional events, the most important to us psychically, are remembered for the purpose of gaining knowledge about our Self. We remember these events of dissolution to keep our ego in check and also to prepare us for death; our consummation of dissolution, the ultimate act of remembering and subsequently, forgetting.

To remember our infancy would be pointless, because when we are that young, we have zero frame of reference that would be applicable later in life.

We forget our past to prepare us for our future.

It is very paradoxical, but that is only because time doesn't exist.

It makes sense if you think about it though; only the most important memories reverberate throughout our lives, while the least important are merely stored in our unconscious. These unconscious memories are what fuel our unconscious motivations and prejudices.

Our unconscious is what is "trying" to be remembered, but our consciousness focuses on more "important" things physiologically, such as breathing, eating, and ultimately what we will do with the rest of our days.

Our day to day anxieties are merely distractions from our "remembrance" of death, but regardless, this "remembrance" will be forced upon us, whether we like it or not.


Have a great day.

:psychsplit:


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"When you get the message, hang up the phone." - Alan Watts

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OfflineAround In Circles
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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: Around In Circles]
    #11769401 - 01/05/10 11:10 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Just wanted to drop this link in here for anyone interested.

It backs up what I have been saying beautifully.

http://www.skeptiko.com/eeg-expert-on-near-death-experience/

"For near death experience skeptics, medical evidence of a flat EEG during an out of body experience has always been a stumbling block.  After all, a brain dead patient can’t hallucinate.  But, does a flat EEG really mean no brain activity?  NDE  doubters have claimed activity deep inside the brain, beyond the reach of EEG instruments, must account for the complex “realer than real” experiences reported by those who briefly pass into the afterlife.  Now, University of Toledo Neuroscience researcher, and EEG expert, Dr. John Greenfield explains why this claim doesn’t hold up.

“It’s very unlikely that a hypoperfused brain [someone with no blood flow to the brain], with no evidence of electrical activity could generate NDEs.  Human studies as well as animal studies have typically shown very little brain perfusion [blood flow] or glucose utilization when the EEG is flat.  There are deep brain areas involved in generating memories that might still operate at some very reduced level during cardiac arrest, but of course any subcortically generated activity can’t be brought to consciousness without at least one functioning cerebral hemisphere.  So even if there were some way that NDEs were generated during the hypoxic state [while the brain is shut off from oxygen], you would not experience them until reperfusion [blood flow] allowed you to dream them or wake up and talk about them”, Greenfield stated."

:psychsplit:


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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: Around In Circles]
    #11769431 - 01/05/10 11:15 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Hi BrainFood, I like you're ideas you posted here, although I don't agree with everything :grin:.

Quote:

To say that we live our lives in ignorance and that we are merely chasing our tails in “vain” is merely to say that we must live in unconsciousness in order to reach enlightenment.




I think this is true except instead of repeating our life's over and over and calling this eternity, I believe humanity's goal is to transcend time and to live in the eternal moment where we are free to do and create pretty much anything we can imagine.

I was thinking about this the other day that really, the main (or maybe only)thing that separates us from other animals is our ability to create things. The logical end state (if its possible) for a being that possesses the unique ability to create things is to occupy some sort of god-like role. I think its at least possible we are gods in training of some sort. 

I'd like to add on the topic of Near Death Experiences: I find it interesting to consider how completely pointless it is for the brain to create NDEs wile the body is dieing. It seems to me that basic survival would dictate that every last bit of energy in the body be channeled to trying to keep that person alive. Not creating elaborate scenes of an afterlife that isn't real. This point alone IMO makes NDEs worth serious investigation.


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Edited by vegantoker (01/05/10 11:17 AM)

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OfflineAround In Circles
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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: vegantoker]
    #11769449 - 01/05/10 11:20 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

For evildee125,

Forgetfulness is key to a healthy mind

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19726431.600-forgetfulness-is-key-to-a-healthy-mind.html

"SOME things in life are best forgotten. Unfortunately for AJ, forgetting is a luxury she can only dream of. A 42-year-old woman from California, AJ remembers every day of her life since her teens in extraordinary detail. Mention any date since 1980 and she is immediately transported back in time, picturing where she was, what she was doing, and what made the news that day. It's an ability that has baffled and amazed her family and friends for several decades, but it comes at a price. AJ is locked in a cycle of remembering that she describes as a "running movie that never stops". Even when she wants to, AJ cannot forget.

She is one of a handful of people with similar abilities now working with neuroscientists to find out how and why they remember so much. As their brains are probed for clues, one thing is becoming clear: having a normal healthy memory isn't just about retaining the significant stuff. Far more important is being able to forget the rest."


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Offlineevildee125
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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: Around In Circles]
    #11769472 - 01/05/10 11:25 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BrainFood said:
For evildee125,

Forgetfulness is key to a healthy mind

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19726431.600-forgetfulness-is-key-to-a-healthy-mind.html

"SOME things in life are best forgotten. Unfortunately for AJ, forgetting is a luxury she can only dream of. A 42-year-old woman from California, AJ remembers every day of her life since her teens in extraordinary detail. Mention any date since 1980 and she is immediately transported back in time, picturing where she was, what she was doing, and what made the news that day. It's an ability that has baffled and amazed her family and friends for several decades, but it comes at a price. AJ is locked in a cycle of remembering that she describes as a "running movie that never stops". Even when she wants to, AJ cannot forget.

She is one of a handful of people with similar abilities now working with neuroscientists to find out how and why they remember so much. As their brains are probed for clues, one thing is becoming clear: having a normal healthy memory isn't just about retaining the significant stuff. Far more important is being able to forget the rest."




perhaps then I should consider myself blessed... thanks again


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InvisibleScudreloaded
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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: evildee125]
    #11769558 - 01/05/10 11:43 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

mushrooms taught me to value life a little more than i used to.
they've helped me greatly through a few of my depressed times.
i remember it was thanksgiving last year and i'd cut myself the night before, but my friend allowed me to have my take of some of the mush one night and so i did. I remember feeling a burning sensation where i had cut myself and i looked down and saw what i did and broke down in tears.
that sense of "OMG I THINK IM DIEING" while tripping has pulled my head out of depressed state manya times


--------------------
We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold. - Hunter S. Thompson

- believe what you may but take the internet with a grain of salt

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Offlineevildee125
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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: Scudreloaded]
    #11771032 - 01/05/10 04:18 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Scudreloaded said:
mushrooms taught me to value life a little more than i used to.
they've helped me greatly through a few of my depressed times.
i remember it was thanksgiving last year and i'd cut myself the night before, but my friend allowed me to have my take of some of the mush one night and so i did. I remember feeling a burning sensation where i had cut myself and i looked down and saw what i did and broke down in tears.
that sense of "OMG I THINK IM DIEING" while tripping has pulled my head out of depressed state manya times



deep stuff..
last time i shroomed i could swear that it was in fact my time to go.. and i fought it like hell..i kept thinking about my family and how i still had so much to accomplish etc... for some reason on high dosages i always feel this animal instinct, if you will, to survive... i feel the fight to live.. in every cell.. urging me.. on one high dosage i regressed to birth(believe it or not) and i remember then feeling that strong urge to live... ive been doing a lot of reading since my last shroom trip... had a lot to do with why i ended up in this thread... the experience has made quite the impact.. ive tripped more times then i can count.. but that was the first time i trully believed i was gonna die..


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OfflineAround In Circles
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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: vegantoker]
    #11771169 - 01/05/10 04:34 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

vegantoker said:
Hi BrainFood, I like you're ideas you posted here, although I don't agree with everything :grin:.

Quote:

To say that we live our lives in ignorance and that we are merely chasing our tails in “vain” is merely to say that we must live in unconsciousness in order to reach enlightenment.




I think this is true except instead of repeating our life's over and over and calling this eternity, I believe humanity's goal is to transcend time and to live in the eternal moment where we are free to do and create pretty much anything we can imagine.


I was thinking about this the other day that really, the main (or maybe only)thing that separates us from other animals is our ability to create things. The logical end state (if its possible) for a being that possesses the unique ability to create things is to occupy some sort of god-like role. I think its at least possible we are gods in training of some sort. 


I'd like to add on the topic of Near Death Experiences: I find it interesting to consider how completely pointless it is for the brain to create NDEs wile the body is dieing. It seems to me that basic survival would dictate that every last bit of energy in the body be channeled to trying to keep that person alive. Not creating elaborate scenes of an afterlife that isn't real. This point alone IMO makes NDEs worth serious investigation.





We are already living in "that" eternal moment, we just don't realize it. There is no "outside" of time because you cannot "transcend" time in the linear way that you have been made to view it, because, quite simply, time is a circle and we cannot delineate this because we are intrinsically part of this eternally self-same process. The only way that we can truly "transcend" time is by dying to self, via asceticism, psychedelics, or tragedy. In realizing our eternal nature through these experiences of dissolution, we "transcend" time, because we realize it to be an illusion; a mere byproduct of our biology, that once suspended, reveals the eternal interconnectedness of the universe, which we have come to call God.

Since the universe is an eternally interconnected whole, there is no being "outside" of it. The universe is us and we are the universe; there is no way of transcending this interconnectedness, because it is eternally self same. To invoke what you are referring to is akin to saying that there is a heaven. I do not believe this. I do not believe in an existence after death in the conventional way that you view it. I believe that when we die, we experience eternity; our lives are realized to be eternally recurring. We experience our entire life as a simultaneous moment of synchronous perfection; all highly emotional moments and important people surround our consciousness as we are prepared for the white light -  forgetting. Because, when we reach the light, we are about to leave the womb again. We are surrounded by everyone whom was important to us, comforting us, as we are carried to the white light. Once we reach the light, we realize our true nature and we choose to do it all over again because of how painfully beautiful it is. This is the first cause, "our" (collective) choice of incarnation. The white light is the purging source of the All, the One. We emerge, again, eternally self-same, from the womb to live out our entire life in ignorance of its occurrence. This is because the universe is all there is and ever will be and we are the universe.

In my opinion, obviously.

:biggrin:


What separates us from other animals is our neocortex, the most highly complex structure in our known universe. We are evolution becoming aware of itself; we are the apotheosis of the world. We already are God, but I already covered that. We are not "gods in training"; we are all the eternally interconnected whole of the universe; no need to invoke a hierarchy.


I agree with your last point entirely.

They are extremely peculiar anomalies of the human mind and we have a vast amount of knowledge to gain from their investigation.

Cheers.


--------------------
"When you get the message, hang up the phone." - Alan Watts

We Die to Remember What We Live to Forget

Edited by Around In Circles (01/06/10 04:58 AM)

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OfflineAround In Circles
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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: evildee125]
    #11775224 - 01/06/10 07:57 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

evildee125 said:
Quote:

Scudreloaded said:
mushrooms taught me to value life a little more than i used to.
they've helped me greatly through a few of my depressed times.
i remember it was thanksgiving last year and i'd cut myself the night before, but my friend allowed me to have my take of some of the mush one night and so i did. I remember feeling a burning sensation where i had cut myself and i looked down and saw what i did and broke down in tears.
that sense of "OMG I THINK IM DIEING" while tripping has pulled my head out of depressed state manya times



deep stuff..
last time i shroomed i could swear that it was in fact my time to go.. and i fought it like hell..i kept thinking about my family and how i still had so much to accomplish etc... for some reason on high dosages i always feel this animal instinct, if you will, to survive... i feel the fight to live.. in every cell.. urging me.. on one high dosage i regressed to birth(believe it or not) and i remember then feeling that strong urge to live... ive been doing a lot of reading since my last shroom trip... had a lot to do with why i ended up in this thread... the experience has made quite the impact.. ive tripped more times then i can count.. but that was the first time i trully believed i was gonna die..




:thumbup:

"When my experience occurred, I realized that "I" and everything associated with me, myself, was about to end. At first, I definitely felt a distinct fear of dying, but my fear eventually gave way as I came to complete acceptance of death. (I did experience some macabre-esque visuals, but they were merely a "joke") An apocalypse of my entire life up until that point played out in my mind as I was prepared to undergo ultimate dissolution. (How pretentious) I felt like I witnessed every event of my life condensed into a fully interactive, timeless moment. Final thoughts of my parents, friends and things left undone flooded my mind, but everything was okay and I knew what was coming, as I had already done this before, but forgot. (I chose to, in order to do it all over again, anew) The most powerfully emotional moments were given the most "attention" and complete understanding permeated the entire experience.

I saw each of my parents beside me, along with every important figure in my life (especially my wife), helping me along toward this bright funnel of light as I was reviewing my life through a spiral. After I reached that light, I realized that I would be born again into complete ignorance of my life that I had just lived. I understood that I would live the same life over and over again; the universe is a broken record. (I realized that I was God, the eternal universe, and that I created this entire facade for my own "amusement". I even saw a little mushroom-headed being who was "saying", "You did it; you figured It out") The white light could be coming out of the womb again; that is only a guess. I came back into my head, sitting in my room, shaking and breathless. Death is a timeless moment at the end of life that affirms our eternal existence and "heaven/enlightenment" is our conscious ability to transcend fear into love. We live the same life over and over again and we are completely unconscious of this due to our forgetfulness (our biology). We die to remember what we live to forget. That was it."

That was what I wrote after one of my most powerful, as I like to call them, real-death experiences. Facilitated by DMT, no less. :biggrin:

Also, my first real breakthrough, 6-7-07; I will never forget that date, as it also "happened" to be the day that I met my beautiful wife:

"Completely inexplicable to say the least.

I "died"

It was very personalized; which I found to be strange.

It took many things from my life and turned them into a movie culminating in the unfolding of the universe in my head.

I highly recommend this high of a dose.

You WILL come back.

I promise."

:biggrin:

"Let me note that I didn't see the self transforming machine elves.

I burst through all of the imagery and trans-mutating scenery of consciousness.

I feel as though I traveled through time to the last time I tripped this hard; which was on 8 grams of mushrooms.

I'm still in awe."

:biggrin:

"The "movie" played out; eyes closed for about 5 minutes continuously.

Then I opened my eyes and slowly came back into my body via the top of my head.

I remember seeing myself sitting on my bed; in my head.

It was unbelievable.

I was prepared for it and didn't freak out.

I could see how some people would if they weren't ready for it.

I felt myself dissipate into pure photons with everything around me at one point.

Unbelievable.

It told me I created this universe and the movie was flooded with archetypal imagery. "DMT" kept on being said in the "movie" Along with family members and moments throughout my life.

I believe it was a NDE."

:eek::biggrin:

"It really is so extremely idiosyncratic that I cannot really put it to words.

The first few times I smoked I just felt like I was tripping with fractal imagery and visual shimmering. Closed eyes revealed a bright light, much like looking at the sun and then closing your eyes.

I had this about 5 times.

Then I got to the distinct visuals that keep moving toward you and through you; in the most amazing colors imaginable, with "alien" symbols of strange lettering and endless grids of energy. This gave way to the self-transforming machine-elves. These tried communicating and conveying a message to me.

I got those visuals for about 3-4 trips.

Then I got to my large dose.

Immediately after my second toke I sat down on my bed and put my head into my hands and began falling through the very fabric of time/space, like melting through a crack, as if I passed through a black hole. This falling, ever-moving spiral gave way to memories running in full reality, with communicating friends and relatives. I was shot back to the last time I tripped on 8 grams and it was as if I was really there again for about 30-35 seconds. As if the DMT allowed me to travel back in time to the last time I tripped that hard and had a DMT experience. This all astounded me, I believed "this is it, I did it this time, I've died, but; this is okay, this is amazing" I didn't give way to astonishment, I just continued to fall through this looping pattern of memories and scenes, as if I was floating.

In one of the visuals I had was that I melted completely back into pure photons with everything around me. I was connected with everything and it was very strange, because people began to walk on and through me.

It was absolutely amazing and I keep remembering more of it as I go on.

There was a being with the head of a mushroom, brown and quite small, he just kept saying, "Yes! You have figured it out, you did it! You figured it out" And it seemed as if he followed me throughout the imagery, along with friends and family who were "waiting" for me.

The whole thing was astonishingly real. People speak of breaking through and seeing the machine elves. Well the machine elves aren't exactly what I would call "real" As they seem to be a morphing shape of energy that communicates.

I saw actual people.

It was the most incredible experience of my life; coupled with the last time I was there. It grew in intensity with each moment for the better of 5 minutes. Then I was slowly sucked back into my body, my head in my hands; but now with my fingers through my hair.

I looked into the mirror and I was back."

:bigjoint:


--------------------
"When you get the message, hang up the phone." - Alan Watts

We Die to Remember What We Live to Forget

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InvisibleScudreloaded
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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: Around In Circles]
    #11779783 - 01/06/10 08:47 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Mushrooms can teach us soooo much
gotta love em and there tutoring


--------------------
We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold. - Hunter S. Thompson

- believe what you may but take the internet with a grain of salt

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Psychedelic Revelations of Death [Re: Around In Circles]
    #11779794 - 01/06/10 08:48 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BrainFood said:
Just wanted to drop this link in here for anyone interested.

It backs up what I have been saying beautifully.

http://www.skeptiko.com/eeg-expert-on-near-death-experience/

"For near death experience skeptics, medical evidence of a flat EEG during an out of body experience has always been a stumbling block.  After all, a brain dead patient can’t hallucinate.  But, does a flat EEG really mean no brain activity?  NDE  doubters have claimed activity deep inside the brain, beyond the reach of EEG instruments, must account for the complex “realer than real” experiences reported by those who briefly pass into the afterlife.  Now, University of Toledo Neuroscience researcher, and EEG expert, Dr. John Greenfield explains why this claim doesn’t hold up.

“It’s very unlikely that a hypoperfused brain [someone with no blood flow to the brain], with no evidence of electrical activity could generate NDEs.  Human studies as well as animal studies have typically shown very little brain perfusion [blood flow] or glucose utilization when the EEG is flat.  There are deep brain areas involved in generating memories that might still operate at some very reduced level during cardiac arrest, but of course any subcortically generated activity can’t be brought to consciousness without at least one functioning cerebral hemisphere.  So even if there were some way that NDEs were generated during the hypoxic state [while the brain is shut off from oxygen], you would not experience them until reperfusion [blood flow] allowed you to dream them or wake up and talk about them”, Greenfield stated."




Interesting; thanks for the information.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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