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InvisibleMr Wobblehead
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Registered: 11/10/02
Posts: 321
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COCOA-SHROOMS
    #1093380 - 11/28/02 10:13 AM (14 years, 11 days ago)

I have always been a dry powdered shrooms in orange juice type of person. But lately I have been toying with the idea of shrooms and chocolate after reading somewhere that the Mayans used to mix the two together.

I was also wondering about how the chocolate would affect the taste of the shrooms, or vice versa.

To put some background on this, I haven?t had any shrooms for about 6 months as I?ve been busy with things in my life which made it a little difficult. Furthermore, I don?t do any other drugs at all, so the chocolate with the theobromine etc., was an experiment in itself.

Anyway, yesterday evening my cakes had enough shrooms for a test run.

I brought a litre of organic soya milk to the boil (I used soya milk because I?m a vegan and not for any belief that it would alter the trip in any way). I made a paste in some water with 9 heaped teaspoons of ?Green & Black?s Organic Cocoa? and added this to the milk once it had boiled, immediately turning off the heat. I added four desert spoons of raw sugar, and whisked it all up.

I then chopped up 35 grams of fresh Ecuador?s and put them in a blender with just enough of the cocoa to cover them, and blended it until the lumps disappeared. This I poured into a mug. I then rinsed the blender out with a little more of the cocoa and added this to the mug.

It was now 16.30. I drank the cocoa shroom juice down. There were still a few lumps that the blender didn?t get, so I chewed them and swallowed them down. All I could taste was the cocoa, there was no taste at all of the shrooms. It was very strong cocoa though.

By 18.00 I was only slightly buzzing. I?m aware that if I?d done this amount of shrooms with orange juice things would have been quite wobbly, but as it was things were just extremely clear. I think what was happening was that the theobromine was overpowering the shrooms, or rather it and all the sugar were giving me a massive energy boost that was allowing me to overcome the effects of the shrooms.

Whatever it was, I decided that I needed more shrooms. I had another cake that I scalped in order to give me another 13 grams. I blended these with some more of the cocoa and drank it down. By now the cocoa had cooled down to room temperature, and I was able to detect a slight taste of the shrooms as I drank it down.

By 18.50 things were starting to get wobbly. And the visuals were very kaleidoscopic. So I settled down in the darkness and listened to some drumming music. I gave up on that after about fifty minutes and played my guitar instead. A wonderful sound (a wonderful guitar), but too much like hard work. I just wanted to lay down and dream. I had some of the most amazing thoughts going on, and I have to say that this was probably one of the most illuminating trips I?ve ever had. The cocoa seemed to give me the energy to think faster, and a sort of courage to look deeper. I sorted out so much shit in my mind. I?ve tripped many hundreds of times in my life, but this was something new. It wasn't messy at all, the chocolate was giving me so much control.

After a while I turned on a small light and laid flat on my back staring at my stippled textured ceiling (amazing stuff when you?re tripping). It just swirls and zooms all over the place.

I then got out a bar of chocolate that I had bought as part of the experiment. It was Tesco?s Organic Dark Chocolate. You haven?t tasted chocolate until you?ve tried this stuff, oh my, it is amazing. It tastes like someone has compressed 2 kilos of cocoa into a 200 gram bar ? mind-blowing.

The thing was, is that it seemed to bring me straight back down out of my trip. The visuals ended and my mind was sort of not really here or there. A real rapid come down. It?s very dark and strong chocolate though.

So, I gave up trying to trip and tidied up, had a bath, watched Star Trek and went to bed.

I feel rather rough today, and can still taste the chocolate in my mind.

So my questions?

1. Has anyone else here played around with chocolate and shrooms in this way?

2. Anyone have any interesting ideas on the interaction between chocolate and shrooms, theobromine and psylocibin?

3. Is anyone going to have a go at this?

4. I?m also wondering if my reaction to the chocolate, which I would mainly put down to the theobromine, was exaggerated by the fact that I don?t normally touch mehtyl-xanthines at all. Any caffeine or choco heads out there tried chocolate and shrooms, and what sort of reactions did you experience?

I?m going to have another go in a couple of weeks. For my next go I will start with 60 grams of fresh Ecuador's in the cocoa.

My view is that the cocoa somehow interferes with the shrooms making them seem less effective, but by being able to consume a lot more shrooms and have the energy to deal with them, one can trip a lot deeper than normal and thus get more out of the trip.

Please don?t say that it?s a waste of shrooms, because you can grow as many as you need. And the cocoa really does take that nasty taste away.

So, thoughts please everyone?


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OfflineTempanensis
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Re: COCOA-SHROOMS [Re: Mr Wobblehead]
    #1093421 - 11/28/02 11:24 AM (14 years, 11 days ago)

I'd have to do a lot of experimenting to see if chocolate has the effects you mention, or if it was a placebo effect.

I know that if I blend shrooms up with orange juice, they hit me really fast, and I'm peaking within an hour or so.

I did mix dried shrooms with hot chocolate before, but you know how little real chocolate there is in that :wink:

Unless you have access to a lot of cheap shrooms (i.e. you're growing them and they are plentiful) then anything that reduces their effects is not going to be desireable to most, but anything that gives you more control over the drug, and makes you less likely to sucumb to fear or panic is definately a good thing.

Chocolate is definately much cheaper (and safer) than MDMA.

It would be very interesting and beneficial for you to continue experimenting with chocolate and shrooms, and let us know what you find out.


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InvisibleMr Wobblehead
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Registered: 11/10/02
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Re: COCOA-SHROOMS [Re: Tempanensis]
    #1093467 - 11/28/02 12:07 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

It's definitely not placebo. I've done to many drugs to know the difference.

You should get some green and black's cocoa. It's pure organically grown cocoa, and fuck all else, although I did put a split open vanilla pod in the tub about a week ago.


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OfflineTempanensis
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Re: COCOA-SHROOMS [Re: Mr Wobblehead]
    #1094068 - 11/28/02 03:56 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

I forgot to mention this... when I was in Amsterdam, I was told by the coffee shop employees that if a shroom trip was too intense (they sell shrooms there), to drink some sugar-water.

You might want to repeat the experiment without use of any sugar to see if it makes any difference. (Though it will be much less palatable).

Possibly if you reduce the sugar intake, there will be less of a reduction in psychedelic effect.

I don't believe that sugar was part of the original brew that the native indians used in their preparation of mushrooms and cocoa.

I believe that their concoctions also included chili powder, flowers and other things... so I don't know what additive effects those may have.


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InvisibleMr Wobblehead
WizardExtraordinary &Absolute CocoaSlut

Registered: 11/10/02
Posts: 321
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Re: COCOA-SHROOMS [Re: Tempanensis]
    #1094184 - 11/28/02 04:58 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

Good point.

I did use quite a lot of the stuff, and it is quite a stimulant in its own right.

I knew they used chilli in their chocolate brews, but I was going for the sweet thing last night. A little cayenne instead of the sugar might well be a good idea next time.

I love experiments.


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OfflineTempanensis
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Re: COCOA-SHROOMS [Re: Mr Wobblehead]
    #1094353 - 11/28/02 06:32 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

Good luck :smile:

If you (re)discover that cocoa has a synergistic effect of helping to prevent a state of panic during mid-high dose trips, then this would be a great find indeed.

It may be possible that it is due to the theobromine in the cocoa, but you'd have to have access to a pure theobromine extract to be sure.

On a loosely connected note, chocolate contains chemicals that produce dopamine.  Back when LSD was still legal, they found that when administering Ritalin (a Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitor) along with the LSD, patients were less likely to experience a state of panic.  It is possible that the chocolate increases dopamine production to the point where it has a similar effect as Ritalin in stimulating the frontal cortex.

Basically this stimulant effect keeps you more "awake"... more conscious, and probably keeps you from delving too deep into your subconscious -- and therefore prevents your subconscious (which is much more prone to panic) from taking over.  It would also keep you from losing contact with the outside world.


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InvisibleMr Wobblehead
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Re: COCOA-SHROOMS [Re: Tempanensis]
    #1094520 - 11/28/02 08:34 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

Thanks for all the input. There's cartainly a lot to think about and certainly a lot of trips to be tried out to see what effects I can truly identify with the chocolate.

One of my hopes in starting this thread was to get a few other people experimenting with it. I don't think my input alone is very scientific. Give it time though.

The thing is that one rice cake only costs about 20-30 pence to make, and there's at least 100 grams of fresh shrooms from a cake. So I can't see why wasting a lot of shrooms playing with chocolate should be a problem to people. And it does taste nice.

I'll be having my next go in a couple of weeks, as I want to make sure I get right back down first, and I'll let you know how it goes.


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OfflineTempanensis
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Re: COCOA-SHROOMS [Re: Mr Wobblehead]
    #1095653 - 11/29/02 10:53 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Well, since I haven't yet got the growing thing going, I only have a small stash of dried shrooms to play with. I've been using them along with the weak LSD blotter I have to suppliment the trip, and they work together quite nicely.

I will however do some experimenting with chocolate/cocoa and let you know what I find out.


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InvisibleMr Wobblehead
WizardExtraordinary &Absolute CocoaSlut

Registered: 11/10/02
Posts: 321
Loc: They tell me it's a hospi...
Re: COCOA-SHROOMS [Re: Tempanensis]
    #1095686 - 11/29/02 11:30 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

LSD and shrooms together totally fuck my head up. One seems to want to go one place while the other takes me another place entirely and my mind gets torn in half. Taking e with the two helps keep it together though, but i quit doing those. I haven't had any acid in years either - wonderful substance, too nice, i was totally hooked on it. I used to buy it by the sheet.

You should start growing your own shrooms. It's the easiest thing in the world to do, and once you fork out a few pound for the set up it is so cheap to keep it going. You can easily make your initial outlay back, and you can hide a shroom grow anywhere.

I worked it out that it costs less than ?4 to grow a kilo of shrooms. That includes all the perlite and vermiculite. That's the funny thing about my cocoa experiment, the cocoa and chocolate costs me about five times as much as the shrooms.


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InvisibleMr Wobblehead
WizardExtraordinary &Absolute CocoaSlut

Registered: 11/10/02
Posts: 321
Loc: They tell me it's a hospi...
Re: COCOA-SHROOMS [Re: Tempanensis]
    #1096079 - 11/29/02 02:51 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

I just tried some cocoa with chilli. Fucking disgusting. I'd sooner eat raw shrooms than drink that.

It brought to mind the words, chocolate vindaloo. If you've ever tried a vindaloo then you'll know what i mean. Maybe it's ok after two gallons of lager though. But as i don't do alcohol I'm not going to try.


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OfflineTempanensis
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Re: COCOA-SHROOMS [Re: Mr Wobblehead]
    #1096175 - 11/29/02 03:51 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Heheh :wink:  I never said it would be tasty :wink:

Actually, if you use enough chilli that it tastes bad, then you're using way too much.

The chilli pepper should be of the hot variety, and you should feel a little heat from it and not even really notice the taste.

Vindaloo isn't bad, but I don't think I'd enjoy chocolate vindaloo :wink:

BTW... What grow method are you using?


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OfflineBullfrog1
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Re: COCOA-SHROOMS [Re: Mr Wobblehead]
    #1096291 - 11/29/02 04:57 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Wobs,
Cocoa definitely increases the high. I've used plain Nesquick and it dramatically increased my trip. I dosed my usual amount but tried the nesquick/milk concoction as opposed to the OJ one. It kicked my ass! Not just once but several times.
If one has a limited amount, then i suggest a cocoa kicker. It worked for me but maybe it's just my physiology.


--------------------



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InvisibleMr Wobblehead
WizardExtraordinary &Absolute CocoaSlut

Registered: 11/10/02
Posts: 321
Loc: They tell me it's a hospi...
Re: COCOA-SHROOMS [Re: Tempanensis]
    #1096525 - 11/29/02 06:40 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

In reply to:

BTW... What grow method are you using?



Just the PF thing. I started off with golden teachers and grew loads of them. I've just started growing again with Ecuadors, their growth is amazing in comparison to the teachers.

I always use a pressure cooker to sterilise everything i use, and only use spore prints. I sterilise my syringe in the pressure cooker with a tiny little jar that i mix in at the same time as i'm sterilising the cakes, then i just mix up enough spores to inject what i have. I never have any contam problems that way.

I only use bottled spring water for everything, even filling the pressure cooker. And i use organic brown rice flour to make the cakes.

I know some people say you don't need a pressure cooker, but it's funny how all the people who complain about contamination problems don't use one. And botulism spores aren't killed by boiling and i don't want anything like that in my cakes.

I also use the pressure cooker to dunk the cakes in. Bringing it up to pressure and cooling it down to sterilise everything before hand. I leave the water in there and just top it up occasionally as needed.

For a grow chamber I use a large tupperware type container, ?3.99 on the market 6 cake size. I clean that out with ecover bleach to sterilise it. Then put two inches of sterilised perlite in the bottom, and fill with one inch of sterilised spring water. I use an air plant vapouriser spray to mist with, and that again is filled with sterilised spring water. The cakes sit on individual plastic jar lids (sterilised also).

It's a very simple little system, and works amazingly well. I know some people go on about casing and all that stuff, but i really don't see the point when you can make cakes for a few pence each.


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InvisibleMr Wobblehead
WizardExtraordinary &Absolute CocoaSlut

Registered: 11/10/02
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Re: COCOA-SHROOMS [Re: Bullfrog1]
    #1096530 - 11/29/02 06:43 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

In reply to:

If one has a limited amount, then i suggest a cocoa kicker. It worked for me but maybe it's just my physiology.




You seem to having the opposite effect to what i'm getting. Did you use pure cocoa, and how much cocoa do you consume to how many shrooms, dried or fresh? did you add sugar also?


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InvisibleTinMan
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Re: COCOA-SHROOMS [Re: Mr Wobblehead]
    #1098103 - 11/30/02 11:41 AM (14 years, 9 days ago)

Try mushrooms in chocolate fondue.


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InvisibleMr Wobblehead
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Re: COCOA-SHROOMS [Re: TinMan]
    #1098105 - 11/30/02 11:48 AM (14 years, 9 days ago)

What's chocolate fondue. I live in England, never heard of it.


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OfflineBullfrog1
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Re: COCOA-SHROOMS [Re: Mr Wobblehead]
    #1098312 - 11/30/02 01:56 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

Wobs,
Here it is:
3 gs of dried EQ's mixed into 12 onces of milk and one heaping tablespoon
of Nesquick.
Nesquick contains by ingredient:

Sugar
Cocoa processed with alkali (? Alkalizing (?Dutching?)?Alkali is sometimes added to chocolates and cocoa powders for flavor. This process, which increases the pH of the product, has a negative impact on flavonoid levels.)
Soy
Salt
Maltodextrin (Maltodextrin is a creamy white hygroscopic powder, moderately sweet in taste. Maltodextrin is a mixture of glucose, maltose, oligosaccharides and polysaccharides.) More sugar!

So it seems that there's plenty of sugar as well as cocoa, processed with alkali.
I find that the chocolate increases my high. Doesn't really stabilize the high.



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InvisibleMr Wobblehead
WizardExtraordinary &Absolute CocoaSlut

Registered: 11/10/02
Posts: 321
Loc: They tell me it's a hospi...
Re: COCOA-SHROOMS [Re: Bullfrog1]
    #1098376 - 11/30/02 02:28 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

I'm not sure if the nesquick contains very much pure cocoa though. And what does all that processing do to the theobromine levels?

Would you mind having a go with pure cocoa powder next time, about a heaped tablespoon per 12 oz of milk? See how that goes. We need lots of guinea pigs for this experiment.

Have you tried using fresh shrooms and did you notice any difference?

I'll have to have a go at using dried shrooms in the cocoa. I'm not going to try nesquick though, it sounds like something from a chemical company, i like natural foods.

And was the milk hot or cold?


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OfflineInFecTeD-FuRY
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Re: COCOA-SHROOMS [Re: Mr Wobblehead]
    #1098809 - 11/30/02 06:02 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

>>>>>"What's chocolate fondue. I live in England, never heard of it."


its where u have a pot of hot melting chocolate and u dip fruit and stuff in it to make it chocolate covered and its hella good, i hear sum people do it with cheese tho but that just sounds sick


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InvisibleMr Wobblehead
WizardExtraordinary &Absolute CocoaSlut

Registered: 11/10/02
Posts: 321
Loc: They tell me it's a hospi...
Re: COCOA-SHROOMS [Re: InFecTeD-FuRY]
    #1098840 - 11/30/02 06:22 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

Now that sounds like a good idea.  You could all sit around dipping those shroomies in there.  What a great way to start off a trip with a few friends.

The swiss do it with cheese i think.  I'm not sure what they dip the cheese in though. :crazy:


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