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Cannabischarlie
Resident badass


Registered: 11/28/05
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how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye?
#10931562 - 08/25/09 01:11 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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has anyone tried different approaches and seen what are the pros and cons of each one?
am i missing any methods besides that?
i have only used the pftek, i guess people use manure for that instead of brown rice flour sometimes.
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we could all use a little more sunshine.
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BrandNewbie
Captain



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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: Cannabischarlie]
#10931610 - 08/25/09 01:20 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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There are many more methods beside those three. I started out using WBS. Maybe I'm just having dumb luck, but I can't get the myc to not grow on it!
It's easy to get the moisture just right, it shakes easy for me, (phone book method), and I figure if it ain't broke why fix it? I do plan on experimenting, but I need to get the basics down first. Then I can play.
Having said that, many successful growers have said that working with rye berries makes working with WBS seem like a booger. 
My guess is that if you stay with this hobby, you will try it all and then some.
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Shroominit
Part Time Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 4,662
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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: BrandNewbie]
#10931645 - 08/25/09 01:24 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I find I don't have to clean rye as much from the get go, and there's something to be said for being nice and uniform compared to WBS, overall I like rye a lot better. Also, they are damn close to the same price here, so no advantage there. Most people get WBS cheaper, so it's the better pick for them.
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BrandNewbie
Captain



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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: Cannabischarlie]
#10931649 - 08/25/09 01:24 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bruda...
...you have over 10k posts and you're askin this?
What the hell have you to say 10,000 + times!? Couldn't have been about shrooms. I love you man.
-------------------- Question: Why do women wear make-up and perfume?
Answer: Because they're ugly and they stink.
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Shroominit
Part Time Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 4,662
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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: BrandNewbie] 1
#10931699 - 08/25/09 01:30 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Code:
Forum Posts Percent Off-Topic Discussion 6,815 65.3% The Pub 2,659 25.48% Shroomery News Service 200 1.92%
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sloppy
Stranger



Registered: 06/12/09
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Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: Cannabischarlie]
#10931716 - 08/25/09 01:32 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I use WBS, you can find it allmost anywhere, it colonizes very fast and easy but it is messy. After soaking it and picking out all the floaters I simmer it on the stove and have a habit of cooking it and ruining it, also you need to find a colander with very small holes or you will end up with a mess on the floor (I did it 2 times) but other than that I love WBS. I just found a place that will order rye berries for me, they will be here Thursday and I will give them a try. I can only imagine them being easier than WBS is, if they colonize as fast or even close to it I will switch over and never touch WBS again.
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dancefloordale
Research Assistant


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 2,522
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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: BrandNewbie]
#10931767 - 08/25/09 01:41 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
BrandNewbie said: There are many more methods beside those three. I started out using WBS. Maybe I'm just having dumb luck, but I can't get the myc to not grow on it!
It's easy to get the moisture just right, it shakes easy for me, (phone book method), and I figure if it ain't broke why fix it? I do plan on experimenting, but I need to get the basics down first. Then I can play.
Having said that, many successful growers have said that working with rye berries makes working with WBS seem like a booger. 
My guess is that if you stay with this hobby, you will try it all and then some. 
I was only going to quote the first part of this, however as i kept reading I realized I agreed with everything you said.
Yeah, I've also had a lot of luck with WBS. I shoot them up with an LC and they are completely colonized 7-10 days later. What tek do you use to get the moisture right? Thought I would also mention that after Pc'ing 90 percent of my grain has busted, but it does not seem to matter. Have you noticed similar results?
Haven't made it past WBS myself, but definitely plan on trying rye berries soon. I had some trouble locating them, so i began with bird seed.
I will add that it can be a bit messy at times. It's impossible to keep every single one of them contained, and they like to stick to everything. You end of trying to knock them out of your colander and they go flying everywhere.
Haha, my dad always said "A good cook always makes a mess in the kitchen".
I guess that holds true for cooking WBS too!
-------------------- Everything posted by the user dancefloordale, aside from what is written in this here clause is completely and utterly fictitious, despite any information read (or seen), above (or below) that might lead you to believe otherwise.
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Alabama Slim
Chinese river witch

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 7,439
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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: Cannabischarlie]
#10931776 - 08/25/09 01:43 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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never used rye so i have no say. but wbs does work if you do it correct. you need the absolute perfect moisture level....not too wet not too dry.
My method: soak 12 hours rinse add new water simmer (until grains are hot enough to evaporate moisture quickly when strained.) strain about 30 min to 1 hour. spoon test jar up 3/4 full. PC at 15psi for 2 full hours after pressure is reached. let completely cool. knock up. shake at 25% keep one jar as master in fridge once it 100%
it's the doc wbs tech.....with a few little extra steps.
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dancefloordale
Research Assistant


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 2,522
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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: Alabama Slim]
#10931876 - 08/25/09 02:00 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alabama Slim said: never used rye so i have no say. but wbs does work if you do it correct. you need the absolute perfect moisture level....not too wet not too dry.
My method: soak 12 hours rinse add new water simmer (until grains are hot enough to evaporate moisture quickly when strained.) strain about 30 min to 1 hour. spoon test jar up 3/4 full. PC at 15psi for 2 full hours after pressure is reached. let completely cool. knock up. shake at 25% keep one jar as master in fridge once it 100%
it's the doc wbs tech.....with a few little extra steps.
 I also use Doc's tek. Thanks Doc! After the simmer, I rinse with hot water then spread my WBS out in a thin layer on paper towels and let sit for 5 minutes, then roll them around on the paper towels and into the PC they go.
I only PC them 60 to 90 minutes, depending on my mood. Do you think 2 hours is necessary?
Do you think moisture content is that important? I like my grains slightly drier because they will colonize quicker. If you have the sub at field capacity though, i don't think it affects performance.
-------------------- Everything posted by the user dancefloordale, aside from what is written in this here clause is completely and utterly fictitious, despite any information read (or seen), above (or below) that might lead you to believe otherwise.
Hydra Tek - A detailed guide, for newest to the most skilled cultivators.
HCA
Bulk growing made easy-discussion
Bulk Growing Made Easy
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BrandNewbie
Captain



Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 2,932
Loc: U.S.A.
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: dancefloordale]
#10931896 - 08/25/09 02:04 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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"What tek do you use to get the moisture right?"
http://www.shroomery.org/9030/Docs-Wild-Bird-Seed-Tek
"Thought I would also mention that after Pc'ing 90 percent of my grain has busted, but it does not seem to matter. Have you noticed similar results?"
Maybe 10-15% bust open, never even close to 90%. Perhaps you are simmering too long?
You end of trying to knock them out of your colander and they go flying everywhere.
I found and old colander circa 1640, (joke), the colander that I use holds about 4 pints of simmered WBS. I would love to use one of the bigger ones, but; same problem, holes too big. The one I use is screen! Very sweet.
I test my simmering seed by taking out a single Milo seed and trying to split it in two with my thumbnail. If it shoots across the room, seeds not done. If it easily slices right in two, it's perfect. If it mushes into a paste, give it to the birds and start over.
Docs TEK has never failed me. I don't even read it any more. Got it down. Thanks Doc!
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Answer: Because they're ugly and they stink.
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Shroominit
Part Time Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 4,662
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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: dancefloordale]
#10931898 - 08/25/09 02:04 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Here's how I do rye, just for fun: Rinse a few times until water is mostly clean. Soak 12-24 hours. Bring to a boil, let boil for 10 stir occasionally. Pour hot rye into strainer, let drain for a few minutes. Spread rye onto towel or screen. When rye is good and dry, load up jars to 3/4 and PC 90 min. Inoculate, wait a week or so and enjoy.
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sloppy
Stranger



Registered: 06/12/09
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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: dancefloordale]
#10931904 - 08/25/09 02:06 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
dancefloordale said:
Quote:
Alabama Slim said: never used rye so i have no say. but wbs does work if you do it correct. you need the absolute perfect moisture level....not too wet not too dry.
My method: soak 12 hours rinse add new water simmer (until grains are hot enough to evaporate moisture quickly when strained.) strain about 30 min to 1 hour. spoon test jar up 3/4 full. PC at 15psi for 2 full hours after pressure is reached. let completely cool. knock up. shake at 25% keep one jar as master in fridge once it 100%
it's the doc wbs tech.....with a few little extra steps.
 I also use Doc's tek. Thanks Doc! After the simmer, I rinse with hot water then spread my WBS out in a thin layer on paper towels and let sit for 5 minutes, then roll them around on the paper towels and into the PC they go.
I only PC them 60 to 90 minutes, depending on my mood. Do you think 2 hours is necessary?
Do you think moisture content is that important? I like my grains slightly drier because they will colonize quicker. If you have the sub at field capacity though, i don't think it affects performance.
I do the same but I rinse a few times, and soak 24hrs then pc for an hour after it reaches 15lbs. As for how wet they are I just let them sit in the colander until room temp then put in jars and pc.
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dancefloordale
Research Assistant


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 2,522
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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: sloppy]
#10931939 - 08/25/09 02:14 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
BrandNewbie said: Maybe 10-15% bust open, never even close to 90%. Perhaps you are simmering too long?
Perhaps. The busted grains have posed no problems for me though.
Like you said, if it ain't broke why fix it?. Just shows me that WBS is very forgiving. However it is better to be on the drier side if anything. You DO NOT want you seed too wet!
-------------------- Everything posted by the user dancefloordale, aside from what is written in this here clause is completely and utterly fictitious, despite any information read (or seen), above (or below) that might lead you to believe otherwise.
Hydra Tek - A detailed guide, for newest to the most skilled cultivators.
HCA
Bulk growing made easy-discussion
Bulk Growing Made Easy
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BrandNewbie
Captain



Registered: 05/21/08
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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: dancefloordale]
#10931952 - 08/25/09 02:16 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
dancefloordale said:
Quote:
Alabama Slim said: never used rye so i have no say. but wbs does work if you do it correct. you need the absolute perfect moisture level....not too wet not too dry.
My method: soak 12 hours rinse add new water simmer (until grains are hot enough to evaporate moisture quickly when strained.) strain about 30 min to 1 hour. spoon test jar up 3/4 full. PC at 15psi for 2 full hours after pressure is reached. let completely cool. knock up. shake at 25% keep one jar as master in fridge once it 100%
it's the doc wbs tech.....with a few little extra steps.
 I also use Doc's tek. Thanks Doc! After the simmer, I rinse with hot water then spread my WBS out in a thin layer on paper towels and let sit for 5 minutes, then roll them around on the paper towels and into the PC they go.
I only PC them 60 to 90 minutes, depending on my mood. Do you think 2 hours is necessary?
Do you think moisture content is that important? I like my grains slightly drier because they will colonize quicker. If you have the sub at field capacity though, i don't think it affects performance.
After simmer, I rinse with hot water and just let them sit in the colander for about 15 minutes, no towels.
I PC for 90 minutes after I get a good rock going with my weights. 90 minutes every time.
Moisture is extremely important . I firmly believe that the seed should appear to be a little dry, on the exterior. The bran, or outer shell, contains the moisture that the mycelium need, keeping moisture inside the seed, helps keep contaminates from gaining a foothold. Standing water is bad in all stages of mushroom growing. Your water needs to be DOING something. If it isn't, then it's just a trich apartment that just went on the market. Look out Meanie Greenie is movin in!
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Dr.Myco87
Im a "Reader"


Registered: 12/23/08
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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: BrandNewbie]
#10932416 - 08/25/09 05:06 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just figured I'd add this bit of info. I've been using WBS almost exclusively from the beginning and have found that adding a knifetip of gypsum and about 10% dry verm per jar makes it very easy to get the moisture content right. I really only drain for about 20 minutes then add about 7% verm with the gypsum and check the content, if too wet I'll add some verm. if not I load the quart jars.
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talkingwalnut
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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: Dr.Myco87]
#10932453 - 08/25/09 05:24 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I started using wbs but I switch to rye.
Rye overall just seems better The kernel size is nicer Moisture content is usually spot on with using the correct methods Kernels seem to not crack as easy as WBS when simmering
The biggest part I noticed is they seem to dry faster than WBS.
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badman


Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 4,039
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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: talkingwalnut]
#10932537 - 08/25/09 05:55 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have used both, but WBS is cheaper and I want my myc to have a varied diet. IME it does need more rinses than rye.
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: badman]
#10932609 - 08/25/09 06:23 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
badman said: I have used both, but WBS is cheaper and I want my myc to have a varied diet. IME it does need more rinses than rye.
I wanted to echo the others here- I use WBS, and it works great. I find that it rinses better if you put a drop of dish soap in with the rinse water. Three rinses total, same as rye.
I don't doubt that rye is better, but I haven't used it enough to be as confident with it as I am with WBS.
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dgls_jms
festival follower

Registered: 03/24/09
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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: badman]
#10932610 - 08/25/09 06:23 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I found that if i keep the pressure lower around 5psi for 90 min I get less split kernels with WBS.... no problem with contams yet and I'm doing grain to grain transfer.
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: dgls_jms]
#10932664 - 08/25/09 06:46 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quick note on split grains: I once cooked a batch of WBS in my rice cooker. Didn't work, it came out like mashed potatoes. But I jarred it and it colonized fine, spawned fine, worked fine.
Avoid split grains for all the good reasons, but don't fear them if they show up.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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truskool
WTF?? FTW!!



Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 11,194
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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: Dr.Myco87]
#10932933 - 08/25/09 08:38 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dr.Myco87 said: Just figured I'd add this bit of info. I've been using WBS almost exclusively from the beginning and have found that adding a knifetip of gypsum and about 10% dry verm per jar makes it very easy to get the moisture content right. I really only drain for about 20 minutes then add about 7% verm with the gypsum and check the content, if too wet I'll add some verm. if not I load the quart jars.
I had mad moisture content issues with WBS, until I strarted doing this. I am not going to lie IMO rye is easiar in the begining, but once you figure out WBS it goes really well its cheaper (for me), and much easiar to get. I also find WBS colonizes a little quicker.
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shade12435


Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 69
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: how would you rate wild bird seed vs. rye? [Re: Cannabischarlie]
#12587849 - 05/18/10 06:33 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Worked good for me
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