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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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All this shit is so trivial.
    #10925902 - 08/24/09 11:10 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Ever since i was introduced to LSD i have had these what ever you call em "realizations" "epiphanies"

I will close my eyes lay back on some soft grass and i would just laugh at my culture (american) as i think about under the influence of LSD.  I would laugh at how fucking stupid my culture is.  Everything is about making money, impressing people, attention to the visible surface of things.  And it all seems so trivial and stupid.  Like i was in shock i never realized it before.  Its fucking dumb!  Life should be more emotional, and be fixated on your relationship with other humans, other animals, other plants.  It should revolve around sustainability and creating an equilibrium between my pleasures and my duties to preserving life.

People that don't have these psychedelic experiences feel that the current american culture is the way life should be lived.  Now i think about this now, i haven't had a psychedelic in about 4 months.  Was this psychedelic epiphany just a hallucination from being under the influence of a psycho-active drug (oh lets love everybody work together, preserve life!).  Or did i see the truth of my culture and my true desires?  Am i the crazy one for trying to preserve my ideas about life from psychedelics?  Or am i the minority of sanity?


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10925954 - 08/24/09 11:18 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Life should be more...




Really? Your LSD epiphanies failed to show you the very basics. Life has no need to conform to your wishes. To expect it to do so is quite immature. Your 'shoulds' only create unnecessary internal friction; nothing more.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10925997 - 08/24/09 11:22 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Worrying about balancing myself and my family and local humans, plants, resources.  Polluting the air, water and food so i can have a plastic doll made in india and assembled in china so i can make 19 more cents per doll is an unnecessary internal friction?  I see the first sentance as a necessary adjunct to the preservation of my genes.  As if i keep polluting the air, water and food sources my future offspring will find it difficult to stay alive.  And my genes will then have a difficult time preserving them selves as a biological organism.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926055 - 08/24/09 11:28 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Hmm, you must be posting in a parallel universe as you either did not read, nor chose not to respond, to anything that I wrote; instead continuing your rant as if no one else was participating.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10926095 - 08/24/09 11:34 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

You say life has no need to conform to your wishes.  I realize this.  But my ego does have a need to conform my wishes.  And i have an ego...


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926299 - 08/24/09 12:03 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Why do we care about your ego? Your OP was about life.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: learningtofly]
    #10926350 - 08/24/09 12:14 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Because my ego impacts the way i live my life.  Sorry im not buddist and i can supress my ego.  I just got ripped on for not agreeing with OC.  Because according to him preserving my genes is an "unnecessary internal friction."  However i feel its a duty.  My whole thesis is that the values american culture preserves.  Money, being worth x amount of dollars,physical appearance... all that is "unnecessary internal friction"  I guess OC idea is to have no no wishes at all, because conforming to any desire is immature.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926365 - 08/24/09 12:17 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
I guess OC idea is to have no no wishes at all, because conforming to any desire is immature.



It's fine for you to conform to your own desires, but when you say things should be this or that way, that includes others as well. It's immature to think that things should conform to your desires, when it's self-evident that not everybody desires the same thing.


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10926387 - 08/24/09 12:20 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I understand this (to an extent)  I just don't know anybody that would like to see their children live in a world in which everything is contaminated and near inhabitable environment when they don't have to.  I don't think anyone should have values forced on them, but to support a system of culture that is fundamentally flawed (american) is what a stupid person would do.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926429 - 08/24/09 12:26 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
I don't think anyone should have values forced on them, but to support a system of culture that is fundamentally flawed (american) is what a stupid person would do.



Your subjective point of view sees it as fundamentally flawed; obviously, like you said earlier, most people in this culture do not have much of a problem with it. :shrug:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926452 - 08/24/09 12:30 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

...most people in this culture do not have much of a problem with it.




I think its great for the most part.  The funny thing is, my epiphanies were quite the opposite as yours.  Before tripping I would laugh and the culture and how stupid it is.  But after tripping I gained perspective and realized/focused on the good parts of it.  You choose what to focus on during a trip and that becomes your epiphany.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926522 - 08/24/09 12:40 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I just got ripped on for not agreeing with OC.  Because according to him preserving my genes is an "unnecessary internal friction




You got 'ripped on' because of your horrendous reading comprehension skills as I said nothing remotely like this except in your imagination.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10926553 - 08/24/09 12:43 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Thats the whole point of the thread.  I don't know whether im crazy for not supporting the american vested interests.  Because to me it seems like the americans that do support its vested interests, are learned to think that way.  And any other ideology for the way culture and society operates is fundamentally wrong.  There is this notion in american society that "everything is the way it is, and has always been that way."  And when this idea is questioned, people react very emotionally.  The old "my mind is made up, don't confuse me with fact"


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10926592 - 08/24/09 12:48 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

I just got ripped on for not agreeing with OC.  Because according to him preserving my genes is an "unnecessary internal friction




You got 'ripped on' because of your horrendous reading comprehension skills as I said nothing remotely like this except in your imagination.



:lol:  No you ripped on me for not agreeing with you.  I comprehended what you said, i simply disagree with you .  The shoulds do create unnecessary conflict, but not 100% of the time.  Only to a certain extent. My idea of backing away from american values is the few times humanity should do something.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926605 - 08/24/09 12:50 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

And any other ideology for the way culture and society operates is fundamentally wrong.




Where do you get this impression?  Multi-culturalism, change and evolving values are the norm and have been the norm for our country's entire history. 

Quote:

There is this notion in american society that "everything is the way it is, and has always been that way."




There is not that notion at all.  You are projecting this to conform with your assumptions and justify your angst.

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Offlineandrewss
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926616 - 08/24/09 12:53 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Don't be so hard on american culture, its pretty much better generalized into western culture... all of which are facets of humanity. You are human, everyone else in your despised american culture is human, its a good thing not everyone is dosing lsd and learning to sit in a field all day or shit would not and would have not gotten done, period. We should be thankful we live in a society where we have the ability to enjoy such a leisure, not to mention with a decent degree of safety.

Sure there are changes that might need to be made, but time will unravel and shit will probably get done, but for now we are consuming like a bunch of proud bastards and theres nothing you can do about it except change yourself. And surely lsd induced epiphanies only get a very small way towards any end goals.

In my opinion the best option for a life with such a disposition would be to withdraw into more secluded areas or maybe certain european countries have some advantages, or just learn to live with your situation and realize people are mostly dumb sheep just tryin to get by and they exist all over... and so are WE just because we can identify that doesnt mean all that much, the plight still exists.

Get of the train asap or realize the futilitiy of these silly rants.

I can sympathize with some of the notion tried to be conveyed but in a more philosophical sense and one that overlooks the cultural aspects really. Psychedelics, and I can remember my first lsd experience, I was the only one tripping and in a fuckin sports bar late at night (horrible setting all night, bad party, etc etc...) but I saw some people sitting and shit and realized we are just a bunch of talking monkeys with glittery shit, period. Everything is so organic but it is so well covered by society. Psychedelics made me realize how massively neurotic everyone is, me included, now I am sort of bothered by this little perspective I think I have gotten and expounded on it, we need to find a sense of humor in the face of such absurdity and silly seriousness of many humans.


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Jesus loves you.

Edited by andrewss (08/24/09 12:58 PM)

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: DieCommie]
    #10926621 - 08/24/09 12:53 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

You don't see "Everything is the way it is and had always been that way" in society?  Damn... i don't know where you live, but its like that in my society.  Money rules everything, and those with the most money rule everything.  Do you not see this?


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926656 - 08/24/09 12:57 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I do not.  Again, I think you are projecting this to justify your preconceived notions and substantiate your angst.  Read a little history and you'll see change is the norm.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926668 - 08/24/09 12:59 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I comprehended what you said, i simply disagree with you.




Not even close, oh uncognitive one. I never wrote a word about your genes, yet you mention me saying something about them twice - even after being corrected.

This does not seem to be very aware to me.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926702 - 08/24/09 01:06 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Money rules everything, and those with the most money rule everything.  Do you not see this?



Money is a resource; the people with the most resources have always ruled things. :shrug:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: DieCommie]
    #10926711 - 08/24/09 01:07 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Read a little history and you'll see change is the norm.



You trying to say this isn't a pattern of human history? :lol:"Money rules everything, and those with the most money rule everything."

OC - Yeah i was talking about genes, i don't care if you weren't.  Genes govern a large portion of who i am and the life i live...  Not to get off-topic here but you remind me a lot of  Ted Kaczynski.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926730 - 08/24/09 01:09 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Thats not the quote that I took issue with.  You should read more carefully, specifically post #10926605.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10926734 - 08/24/09 01:10 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Money is a resource; the people with the most resources have always ruled things. :shrug:




Resource yeah?  Pieces of paper seem like a pretty shitty resource, i would rather have a knife or a lighter.  Humans give money value, when in physical reality its just a piece of fuckin' paper.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926756 - 08/24/09 01:13 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

What did you buy that knife or lighter with? :rolleyes:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlineandrewss
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926777 - 08/24/09 01:17 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Money is a resource; the people with the most resources have always ruled things. :shrug:




Resource yeah?  Pieces of paper seem like a pretty shitty resource, i would rather have a knife or a lighter.  Humans give money value, when in physical reality its just a piece of fuckin' paper.




:lol:

don't make the all too common hippie mistake of thinking you have a good understanding on economics... Money represents a real thing within the system, how are you gonna really get out of it, its everywhere and it works pretty damn well and nobody has a better idea


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926806 - 08/24/09 01:21 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Any other way the way society runs is fundamentally wrong?  You don't see this?  Anyone who tries to change the way society is run in american culture is called a terrorist.  Same thing is true with the fear of communism during the cold war.  Terrorists are highly feared in the culture.  A deep rooted fear of change in collective vested interests of institutions.  When you turn on the TV and see people talking about "terrorism" isn't everything about the terrorism fundamentally wrong?


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: andrewss]
    #10926821 - 08/24/09 01:23 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

andrewss said:
don't make the all too common hippie mistake of thinking you have a good understanding on economics...



I don't.  All i said was money is paper.  Humans give it value.  That's all...


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926858 - 08/24/09 01:29 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I think communism is a far fetched ideal that has proven not to be a better way than capitalism, it might work for small societies but large scale I say fuck it.

I don't know if I said wrong, but sure... I think history has shown it to be pretty wrong.

Holding fast on an opinion, even if it is a bit dogmatic or something isn't all that bad, sometimes its necessary to be a bit dogmatic... you can do that without being totally ignorant, just staking some plot - what of it? The machine >

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Quote:

andrewss said:
don't make the all too common hippie mistake of thinking you have a good understanding on economics...



I don't.  All i said was money is paper.  Humans give it value.  That's all...




Alright


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Edited by andrewss (08/24/09 01:31 PM)

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: andrewss]
    #10926894 - 08/24/09 01:34 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not saying communism is a good idea either.  I'm just saying the "patriotic american" will never accept an alternate idea, because its not american.  Hence the deep rooted fear.  I think this would be a good idea, if all american ideas were the best ideas. But i think americans are learned "patriotism".  They were taught to accept rather than taught to think.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926901 - 08/24/09 01:35 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Anyone who tries to change the way society is run in american culture is called a terrorist.




Thats not true.  You are just making that up.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: DieCommie]
    #10926911 - 08/24/09 01:37 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

It was when george w bush was in office:shrug:  You ever listen to him speak?  I think its still true.  But if you think i just made that up, thats okay too.


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10927042 - 08/24/09 02:01 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
I'm not saying communism is a good idea either.  I'm just saying the "patriotic american" will never accept an alternate idea, because its not american.  Hence the deep rooted fear.  I think this would be a good idea, if all american ideas were the best ideas. But i think americans are learned "patriotism".  They were taught to accept rather than taught to think.




Well most of those people are just dumb and likely don't hold real power.

AMERICA FUCK YEAH


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10927053 - 08/24/09 02:03 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

When you see through 'me' you see through everything else

You don't have to see through everything else, theres too much out there to see thorugh each thing individually, just see through yourself

The rest falls into place...

:peace:


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: andrewss]
    #10927134 - 08/24/09 02:19 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Well most of those people are just dumb and likely don't hold real power.



:werd:

But that doesn't mean they cannot influence people.


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InvisibleArden
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10927198 - 08/24/09 02:29 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Culture is culture.

They all have their benefits and disadvantages, expressed through their relationships with the environment and other groups of people. But it is all relative, one cannot qualitatively assert than any one culture is better than the other--logically, because culture itself borrows traditions and behaviors that funnels down through history.

More specifically, despite surface appearances, nothing is wrong. "Everything is on track", McKenna would say. Our trends and pattern of growth originates in our biology and our interdependence with Earth and everything else, and as such reflects a common teleological direction. As a collective organism, Gaia makes no mistakes.

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OfflineTranquil Toad
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Arden]
    #10927352 - 08/24/09 02:54 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I think the "all is relative, nothing is wrong" approach can be dangerous. Yes, you can talk yourself into philosophical circles saying nothing is better than anything else - as any viewpoint is based on someones subjective perspective. But I often see this used as an argument to do nothing and just accept things as they are.

Maybe from a macrocosmic planetary perspective everything is on track, but I don't think this should mean we behave as if nothing is up to us. I agree with cognitive shift, people don't like it when you say something is wrong with our culture. It could be argued there is nothing inherently wrong or evil with our society, but that doesn't mean there aren't things that can be improved upon. One shouldn't get so caught up in logic and philosophy that it prevents growth.

The entire history of evolution on this planet is based on change due to pressures that make a previous system no longer viable. And our current system, at the rate which we are destroying the only home we have - this earth, - will soon no longer be viable if we hope to survive.

I forget the exact quote from mckenna, but I'll butcher it anyways. He said to know in your heart that everything is on track, believe everything is as it should be - but behave as if it were up to us, as if we were the deciding factor in how this whole thing plays out.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10927544 - 08/24/09 03:26 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

the minority of sanity...

soon... it will be the majority..
patience..


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All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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InvisibleArden
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: jivJaN]
    #10927896 - 08/24/09 04:23 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)




Quote:

I think the "all is relative, nothing is wrong" approach can be dangerous. Yes, you can talk yourself into philosophical circles saying nothing is better than anything else - as any viewpoint is based on someones subjective perspective. But I often see this used as an argument to do nothing and just accept things as they are.




Good intentions can be as equally destructive as apathy.

There is a difference between accepting things as they are, and acknowledging that whatever our choice, it is still the universe designing itself. It is inherently human and imperialistic to believe that things are on the verge of the breaking point--and that in the midst of losing our noble savages, modern society, unless re-directed by the intelligent human will, will forever crumble to [insert whatever timely threat: pollution, etc.]

The way that we define the nature of destruction is contingent on our current interpretive and scientific paradigm, and more or less depends on what political/environmental/spiritual slant we put on it. What saves the rainforest today will pollute the rivers tomorrow. Hubris and debris is needed for compost, however you wish to spin the transient ideologies.

Quote:

The entire history of evolution on this planet is based on change due to pressures that make a previous system no longer viable. And our current system, at the rate which we are destroying the only home we have - this earth, - will soon no longer be viable if we hope to survive.




Both the prima materia that is being changed, and the forceful 'pressures' that drive the novelty, is of the same forward-moving and organized essence. Our human behavior and the impact it has had on our environment is aggregate. The puzzle pieces began their descent from the early yawns of abiogenesis. To think we have control of the reigns is silly (1 million years from now, the "green eco-cities" will congratulate our fastidiousness? Really?).

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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Arden]
    #10930654 - 08/24/09 11:01 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

hey guys, we should not forget that we are animals, and when you look at animals in groups they seem to be like... humans!

Human group life is integral to our being. But the people who run the world know that being in groups is how humans reach their true potential. So modern society attempts to control which groups people are in and keep them focussed on universal values - eg money, patriotism, sport, overseas economical wars, etc.

The individual's life, their mystic journey and their appreciation for what is important in the world, is always given high consideration during introspection. But once you get in a group that mostly gets concealed by your new identities and objectives.

Capitalism society allows some people to have lots of power, yeah. And they use it badly, yeah. For their own good, yeah. (cant blame them really). But I SEE PEOPLE EVERYWHERE trying to put down the capitalist system and I too have a lot of angst about it. Unfortunately I DONT SEE ANYWHERE any attempts to simply make powerful people more accountable for their actions.

The big bad boss is always a shadowy figure or alternatively an ambiguous, two faced advertisement.

Revolutionaries are kept trying to put down modern society.

Well Ill tell you what, money has allowed more willing transfer of resources and effort, then any other social tool that man has used. Money is an important tool. Not necessarily the current methods used to value money and prices of work and goods, but the concept of money itself, as an abstract representation of value that can be traded.

Money is bad because it allows people to accumulate wealth unscrupulously.

With great power comes great responsibility.
One element of responsibility is in the person with power - their understanding that they have the power to do good where others dont. The other element, however, is accountability. When something is wrong, we ask who is responsible. But the powerful people are apparently never responsible for anything in todays world because they are just running their organisation, and any specific functions of that organisation can be scapegoated to departments or sources of information or simply some battler who cops it.

But if powerful people were made more accountable then everyone would try to pull them in line. Revolts could be focussed on individuals. So they obviously try to keep the concept out of collective consciousness as hard as they can.

PUt more pressure on the people in power. Demand more from governments. BUT at the same time, let them make decisions and do things. Let them be stingy or discriminative if they want to be, but make them pay if the consequences are dire.


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10931137 - 08/25/09 12:13 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
I don't think anyone should have values forced on them, but to support a system of culture that is fundamentally flawed (american) is what a stupid person would do.



Your subjective point of view sees it as fundamentally flawed; obviously, like you said earlier, most people in this culture do not have much of a problem with it. :shrug:




One cannot have a problem if their eyes are shut to it.


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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes

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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Rocker232]
    #10931165 - 08/25/09 12:18 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

What doesn't have flaws?


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10933614 - 08/25/09 11:35 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Ever since i was introduced to LSD i have had these what ever you call em "realizations" "epiphanies"

I will close my eyes lay back on some soft grass and i would just laugh at my culture (american) as i think about under the influence of LSD.  I would laugh at how fucking stupid my culture is.  Everything is about making money, impressing people, attention to the visible surface of things.  And it all seems so trivial and stupid.  Like i was in shock i never realized it before.  Its fucking dumb!  Life should be more emotional, and be fixated on your relationship with other humans, other animals, other plants.  It should revolve around sustainability and creating an equilibrium between my pleasures and my duties to preserving life.

People that don't have these psychedelic experiences feel that the current american culture is the way life should be lived.  Now i think about this now, i haven't had a psychedelic in about 4 months.  Was this psychedelic epiphany just a hallucination from being under the influence of a psycho-active drug (oh lets love everybody work together, preserve life!).  Or did i see the truth of my culture and my true desires?  Am i the crazy one for trying to preserve my ideas about life from psychedelics?  Or am i the minority of sanity?




It may be stupid but it's been very successful.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Rocker232]
    #10933706 - 08/25/09 11:49 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Rocker232 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
I don't think anyone should have values forced on them, but to support a system of culture that is fundamentally flawed (american) is what a stupid person would do.



Your subjective point of view sees it as fundamentally flawed; obviously, like you said earlier, most people in this culture do not have much of a problem with it. :shrug:




One cannot have a problem if their eyes are shut to it.



So because, in your opinion, most people's eyes are symbolically shut, then things should change? :cuckoo:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Icelander]
    #10935706 - 08/25/09 04:50 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I guess 1984 is successful in some peoples eyes.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10936911 - 08/25/09 07:33 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

You're missing the point entirely.


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10937839 - 08/25/09 09:45 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Humans give money value, when in physical reality its just a piece of fuckin' paper.




Humans also give their own lives and others value when in reality they are just as expendable and valueless as any other creature on this planet. The world would continue on without you so what gives you value?

Don't take that as an insult, just pointing out that giving something value is subjective.

Money is simply a standardized trade system. People who go on and on about how money is worthless fail to see the purpose of money.

People with money may have "power" but that doesn't mean they have power over you. The govt has more power than I yet they still fail to stop me from indulging in the many things they say I'm not allowed to (mushrooms, lsd).

Your perspective of American culture is very generalized. In the USA we have hippies, uptight christians, muslims, jews, liberals, conservatives, small businesses and large ones, people who are out to make money and people who donate and volunteer their free time to help others, etc etc etc etc.

The USA is one of the most diverse countries on this planet. Your problem seems to be with capitalism and not American culture. The USA isn't the only capitalist country.


Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
I'm not saying communism is a good idea either.  I'm just saying the "patriotic american" will never accept an alternate idea, because its not american.  Hence the deep rooted fear.  I think this would be a good idea, if all american ideas were the best ideas. But i think americans are learned "patriotism".  They were taught to accept rather than taught to think.




You fail to see the light again.

Being a patriotic american has nothing to do with blindly following "american beliefs". Many patriotic americans are against the govt decisions that are made. Being patriotic is simply wanting the best for your country and your people. Sometimes that even means going against the current american policies.


--------------------
Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species.

Looking for wild Panaeolus cinctulus and Panaeolus olivaceus prints.

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InvisibleArden
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #10939192 - 08/26/09 01:24 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sometimes that even means going against the current american policies.




"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism".


On that note, and not to be overly tangential:

"Google the phrase "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" along with the name "Thomas Jefferson" and you will find thousands of Web pages attributing the sentiment to the third president of the United States. The trouble is, notes reader Dave Forsmark, who has been waging a one-man campaign to correct what he believes to be a blatant misattribution, "the quote is about two years old, not 200. It was made by [historian] Howard Zinn in an interview with TomPaine.com to justify his opposition to the War on Terror." Someone erroneously attributed the quote to Jefferson soon after, and now seemingly everyone is doing it."

-- http://urbanlegends.about.com/b/2005/02/15/misattributed-dissent-is-the-highest-form-of-patriotism.htm

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10940143 - 08/26/09 07:57 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Yes and those with the most power always ended up forcing their values on to others.

Does that make it alright?

Maybe, since we are evolving constantly, the next step will be a gradual stepping back from such a behavior. One of the main characteristic of our evolution is the refinement of consciousness and consciousness is what sooner or later makes us aware of innate power plays, our own and those of others.

So who's to say we won't eventually grow enough of a consciousness to stop this monkey business altogheter?


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #10940801 - 08/26/09 11:06 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BlimeyGrimey said:
Being patriotic is simply wanting the best for your country and your people. Sometimes that even means going against the current american policies.



Maybe in your eyes it means that.  But in the eyes of the puppets in washington dc going against current american policies, is going against america...


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10943556 - 08/26/09 06:12 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

solstice said:
Yes and those with the most power always ended up forcing their values on to others.

Does that make it alright?



I seriously can't even begin to imagine why you think I was trying to make that point. :confused:



Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Quote:

BlimeyGrimey said:
Being patriotic is simply wanting the best for your country and your people. Sometimes that even means going against the current american policies.



Maybe in your eyes it means that.  But in the eyes of the puppets in washington dc going against current american policies, is going against america...



Obama's entire presidential campaign was based on the claim that he was going to change Washington (i.e.- he was campaigning against the existing American politics); he was backed by his political party, and eventually won the election.

Which puppets of Washington are you referring to? Republicans?


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10943581 - 08/26/09 06:17 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I seriously can't even begin to imagine why you think I was trying to make that point.




it'S that little emoticon: :justdontknow: Which suggested to me that it was nothing to care about since it had always been that way, you know?

My bad if that wasn't your point. :grin:


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10943609 - 08/26/09 06:21 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I used the ":shrug:" smiley because Cognitive_Shift mentioned how people with money run things, and I told him that it's always been that way; the smiley was put there to indicate that it's not something to be surprised about, since it's extremely obvious.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineCJCollin37
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10944376 - 08/26/09 08:31 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Thats the whole point of the thread.  I don't know whether im crazy for not supporting the american vested interests.  Because to me it seems like the americans that do support its vested interests, are learned to think that way.  And any other ideology for the way culture and society operates is fundamentally wrong.  There is this notion in american society that "everything is the way it is, and has always been that way."  And when this idea is questioned, people react very emotionally.  The old "my mind is made up, don't confuse me with fact"




Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Ever since i was introduced to LSD i have had these what ever you call em "realizations" "epiphanies"

I will close my eyes lay back on some soft grass and i would just laugh at my culture (american) as i think about under the influence of LSD.  I would laugh at how fucking stupid my culture is.  Everything is about making money, impressing people, attention to the visible surface of things.  And it all seems so trivial and stupid.



Nah man, you're not crazy. I thought this way even before I started doing drugs. I often believe the society we live in today is bullshit, with all these fuckin governments and borders, and stupid fucking wars. and yes, our culture is sickening as well, to think money rules everything, which i agree, it does for the most part... I've realized there's no choice but to conform man, u gotta just accept the world even though its workings and structures can be unjust, frustrating, or sickening. Because otherwise you'll just get depressed, i mean its not like u can change anything, ya know? Its like Rage Against the Machine said about the "bullet in your head." Everyone "bows down to the flag with a bullet in their heads"... brainwashed.

And sure Poid (Pold? not sure which), "money is a resource; the people with the most resources have always ruled things." And thats why the people with the most resources have always been assholes, probably mostly responsible for why the world went to shit thru generations of civilization, society, and culture.

I know... I do tend to have a pretty cynical outlook

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Offlinesolstice
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: CJCollin37]
    #10946701 - 08/27/09 06:03 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I've realized there's no choice but to conform man, u gotta just accept the world even though its workings and structures can be unjust, frustrating, or sickening. Because otherwise you'll just get depressed




Ah come on! You have to be kidding! There's no choice but to conform? There's a wide spectrum of choices and alternatives to choose from! Like I've said before in another thread, people everywhere are making these very alternatives happen! When I was in Barcelona I had the chance to visit a small self-sustaining environment inhabited by people who grow their own food and completely stopped relying on a material level with the city surrounding them and that's not the only one of it's kind! There are others like that all over the world.

Do not accept the world you live in if you don't like it. What is it with this " I can't do shit " mentality nowadays? The founding fathers of america were people who did not accept to live in a world they grew frustrated with and they went on to build their own nation and they succeeded! And now this very culture says to it's children: " You have to bow down and accept what you don't agree with. " What is that? Why is it?

Working on an alternative is not depressing, far from it! And if you feel depressed because you feel like the world is turning to shit, well, use that depression as a stepping stone to reach for a better future. I guess the bottom line is to ask yourself, if you are unhappy with the way things are: Am I going to sacrifice my life on the altar of compromise or do anything I can to make the changes I believe in happen?

People's sense of worth has been stolen from them and they do not see themselves as more than well-oiled gears in a machine nowadays. This is a shame, this is a damn shame.


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10947134 - 08/27/09 09:00 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Cognitive shift i have the same opinions as you.
Almost everything most people think and do these days:
is destructive, selfish and ugly.

People are so haunted by fear and lust,
that current state of not only human... but animal and plant world as well,
has become very sad.


Only 2 possibilities: try to make things better or don't.
I believe we all ought to try to make things better because
i think we should treat the world and other people,
how we would like to be treated ourselves.

If someone or something
is in need of help, we should help it... no?

No matter how much more fucked up things will get,
never lose courage/happiness!!!! :wink:


Edited by lobotomix (08/27/09 09:09 AM)

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OfflineCJCollin37
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10947145 - 08/27/09 09:06 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Soltice,

You have several good points, but im not too sure... Its difficult to take the founding fathers seriously when they founded this country by nearly exterminating the native people rightfully living here before them. I dont really think they had the same motives for their actions, being a will to start anew because of lack of acceptance with their previous lives and lands (sure some were religiously persecuted). I mean, if those emperialistic dudes had it their way I bet they would've chose to "lead," or control, the whole world. It all boils down to wealth and power.
And about that community in Barcelona, I like hearing about these things, but what are those people doing with their lives? Unfortunately, I have been exposed to 21st century America and have some ambitions, and a desire for certain materials. My prob with the world is that small groups (typically governments) dictate whether or not entire populations can enjoy this, smoke that, walk there, grow those... you know? Money is the only key, and even that doesnt grant you access to all. When I say theres no choice but to conform, I mean if you want certain materials, or even certain rights, theres no choice but to play the game, follow the system and get money. Its not like I have any alternatives though... unfortunately these governments and rules are considerably vital to maintaining stability. But thats why I think the world is overpopulated; I think less of us would result in more freedom and peace.

Please respond with any insights or comments, as I am only a teenager and would love to learn from you :cool:

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: CJCollin37]
    #10947330 - 08/27/09 10:07 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

You have several good points as well, still, deep under the layer of conditioning from which we suffer, lies the strenght and courage to make the changes we are able to envision.

Your founding fathers ( I assume you are american ) may have done some serious mistakes on the way to achieve their goal but the impetus was there and the goal was reached. It is up to us now to study what they did, as well as what many other revolutionaries did, and learn from their mistakes and also to realize that it is possible, not only to criticize the system in which you find yourself, but also to either change it or to move away from it and start afresh.

As for money, well, you're right, to an extent it is necessary but not for someone who opts for a different kind of life. You targeted most people's problem I believe: material addiction. When you manage to get people hooked on material luxuries, they are willing to accept a lot of things before they turn on you... Most americans are aware that their government lies to them, and does so very badly I might add, still, they keep on living their lives without retaliation. Why? Simply because they don't want to lose what they have: when you take the head down, the whole body collapses and dies. Cells need the body in order to have a purpose but most cells do not wish to seek a new purpose and that's understandable to a certain degree.

Material luxuries are all well and good but sooner or later they no longer suffice in making people happy and giving meaning to their lives. When that happens, they start looking for something else and then the embers of hope become the fire of revolution.


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10947390 - 08/27/09 10:19 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Ever since i was introduced to LSD i have had these what ever you call em "realizations" "epiphanies"

I will close my eyes lay back on some soft grass and i would just laugh at my culture (american) as i think about under the influence of LSD.  I would laugh at how fucking stupid my culture is.  Everything is about making money, impressing people, attention to the visible surface of things.  And it all seems so trivial and stupid.  Like i was in shock i never realized it before.  Its fucking dumb!  Life should be more emotional, and be fixated on your relationship with other humans, other animals, other plants.  It should revolve around sustainability and creating an equilibrium between my pleasures and my duties to preserving life.

People that don't have these psychedelic experiences feel that the current american culture is the way life should be lived.  Now i think about this now, i haven't had a psychedelic in about 4 months.  Was this psychedelic epiphany just a hallucination from being under the influence of a psycho-active drug (oh lets love everybody work together, preserve life!).  Or did i see the truth of my culture and my true desires?  Am i the crazy one for trying to preserve my ideas about life from psychedelics?  Or am i the minority of sanity?




I honestly believe that if more people used psychedelics the world  would be a better place. Unfortunately, many people who could benefit from a psychedelic experience will never have such an experience because of some sort of fear or conditioning that tells them that these drugs are bad. For those of us who have had beautiful realizations and epiphanies it can be very annoying at times but it also puts us in a very unique situation. We now have a responsibility to share what we have learned while we influence others. Those of us who have experienced some of the wonderful realizations we can have on psychedelic drugs should find a creative outlet before we go crazy. I don't think it really matters how you do it as long as you are somehow influencing the world around you, no matter how small of an influence you are, as long as you make a difference, your realizations and epiphanies are a gift.

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OfflineCJCollin37
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10947890 - 08/27/09 12:00 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

You're an inspiration, solstice. :rockon:

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: CJCollin37]
    #10948357 - 08/27/09 01:19 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

:grin: Thanks, but you're the one who inspired this rant so, you see? Even cynicism can stimulate change in other people and those very people can, in turn, change cynicism into enthusiasm.


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: lobotomix]
    #10948386 - 08/27/09 01:23 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Almost everything most people think and do these days:
is destructive, selfish and ugly.


These days? It's always been like this only with less people.


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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: CJCollin37]
    #10948415 - 08/27/09 01:27 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

CJCollin37 said:
And sure Poid (Pold? not sure which), "money is a resource; the people with the most resources have always ruled things." And thats why the people with the most resources have always been assholes, probably mostly responsible for why the world went to shit thru generations of civilization, society, and culture.



Whose fault was the Holocaust?


Quote:

solstice said:
Am I going to sacrifice my life on the altar of compromise or do anything I can to make the changes I believe in happen?



Are you going to sacrifice your life for a vain cause?


Quote:

lobotomix said:
Only 2 possibilities: try to make things better or don't.
I believe we all ought to try to make things better because
i think we should treat the world and other people,
how we would like to be treated ourselves.



There are several possibilities, WTF? :lol:

You could focus on yourself instead of paying any heed to the needs of others if doing so causes you pain.

I think everyone "should" be treated with a pound of steamed broccoli at precisely 5:10:41 AM everyday, because this is how I like to be treated! :whatever:


Quote:

CJCollin37 said:
And about that community in Barcelona, I like hearing about these things, but what are those people doing with their lives? Unfortunately, I have been exposed to 21st century America and have some ambitions, and a desire for certain materials.



It's all your fault. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10948458 - 08/27/09 01:34 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Are you going to sacrifice your life for a vain cause?




A cause is never vain until you failed at making it happen and how are you going to know if you don't try?

You're just in " wise ass " mode is all.:grin:


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10948627 - 08/27/09 02:04 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

solstice said:
A cause is never vain until you failed at making it happen and how are you going to know if you don't try?



Never? :what:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10948683 - 08/27/09 02:16 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Well, if you're asking me, no, never. As long as you believe it's the right thing to do and that failure did not stop you from reaching your goal yet, a cause is never vain.

It's just trendier to act cynical these days isn't? ... well!


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10948707 - 08/27/09 02:22 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

What if your cause is to grow wings and fly like a bird? :leaving:

It's just trendier to make illogical statements these days, isn't it?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10948756 - 08/27/09 02:32 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
What if your cause is to grow wings and fly like a bird? :leaving:

It's just trendier to make illogical statements these days, isn't it?




You just proved it my friend! Speaking of causes, you should definitely seek yours instead of arguing in vain with me. :grin:


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10948773 - 08/27/09 02:35 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

:facepalm:


Do you even know what forum you're in? :what:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10948791 - 08/27/09 02:40 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

The Shroomery? :crazy2:


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10948817 - 08/27/09 02:45 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology


If you don't want to debate, then I have no real reason to reply to you here. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10948828 - 08/27/09 02:47 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I have no real reason to reply to you here.




:thumbup:

Just fooling around a bit mate. Don't be so earnest. :grin:


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10948854 - 08/27/09 02:50 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Alright, now that that's over, then I suppose you'd like to explain why you believe everything is possible for everyone, right?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10948891 - 08/27/09 02:57 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Well, alright if you insist. I can spare a couple of minutes :wink:

That's not exactly what I said though. What I said was that a cause is never vain as long as it hasn't been proved to be otherwise. And how do you prove that a cause is vain if not by exprience?

From that, how can you tell me that the cause I was troubadouring about was vain if you never embraced it yourself being the cynical little animal that you are? :grin:


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10948938 - 08/27/09 03:03 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

solstice said:
And how do you prove that a cause is vain if not by exprience?



I've never experienced a shotgun blast to the face, but it would still be pretty vain of me if I hope to survive one. :shrug:


Quote:

solstice said:
From that, how can you tell me that the cause I was troubadouring about was vain if you never embraced it yourself being the cynical little animal that you are?



For one, your cause is extremely vague and ambiguous, so I'm not even yet going to bother thinking about it further. Also, people don't just change so easily, and I know this from experience.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10948978 - 08/27/09 03:10 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

We're not talking about a shotgun blast! We're talking about revolution and revolution has succeeded before, may I remind you? Unlike surviving a shotgun blast to the face. Your comparison is poor.

And I do not wish to change people ( only myself ), although if it does happen in the process, that would be even better. You see? At first CJ was all " it's not worth this, it's not worth that " but after two posts of my inspirational magic he was headbanging hard to the revolution song!

So I'm not fooling myself, thank you for caring, but one thing is for sure: revolution can only flourish by inspiring people with hope not with cynicism.


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10951050 - 08/27/09 08:39 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Woah Solstice, I'd love to back you up but just wanna make it clear, you didn't change my life or anything. Just offered me a bit of your knowledge and ideology, and yes, as a result I was inspired :grin:

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE


:rockon:

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10951087 - 08/27/09 08:46 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Isn't it the attitude that shit is trivial that's made shit so trivial? :crazy:


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Rocker232]
    #10953427 - 08/28/09 04:23 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

is this a social experiment conspirisist thread or an i can't fathom humans thread?

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: CJCollin37]
    #10953576 - 08/28/09 05:57 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

CJCollin37 said:
Woah Solstice, I'd love to back you up but just wanna make it clear, you didn't change my life or anything. Just offered me a bit of your knowledge and ideology, and yes, as a result I was inspired :grin:

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE


:rockon:




:lolsy: I never thought I had changed your life my friend! What I meant is that obviously, people are going to be inspired by words of hope rather than words of defeat. And that these days, we hear too much about defeat and not enough about success...


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #10953577 - 08/28/09 05:58 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
is this a social experiment conspirisist thread or an i can't fathom humans thread?





I could tell you but... wouldn't it be better to let you make up your own mind? :grin:


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10972303 - 08/31/09 12:11 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

solstice said:
We're not talking about a shotgun blast! We're talking about revolution and revolution has succeeded before, may I remind you? Unlike surviving a shotgun blast to the face. Your comparison is poor.



We're talking about what you said here:
Quote:

A cause is never vain until you failed at making it happen and how are you going to know if you don't try?




My comparison is indefatigably relevant. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10972340 - 08/31/09 12:19 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

No it's not because we know a shotgun blast to the face will kill anyone and we also know that a cause cannot be considered vain unless it had been failed and therefore tried.

And here I thought you wanted to discuss in a philosophical manner my friend! Alas, this has become an ego driven argument... a shame.


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10972436 - 08/31/09 12:42 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

solstice said:
No it's not because we know a shotgun blast to the face will kill anyone...



Exactly my point. :shrug:


One needn't discover something first-hand if one can logically reason the likely outcome(s).

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10972513 - 08/31/09 01:01 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

solstice said:
No it's not because we know a shotgun blast to the face will kill anyone...



Exactly my point. :shrug:


One needn't discover something first-hand if one can logically reason the likely outcome(s).




Yes, but what you try to avoid is the fact that different occurences have different outcomes and that makes your example a pretty bad one. If all causes were to end up in vain, america would not exist, India would still be under british rule and we would still die from many diseases which we can now cure.

So what's your point again time waster?


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10972554 - 08/31/09 01:11 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

:facepalm:

You just don't get it! You said this:
Quote:

A cause is never vain until you failed at making it happen and how are you going to know if you don't try?





You're saying here that a cause is always necessarily successful until said cause literally fails. How can you not see the inherent logical fallacy in this statement? :cuckoo:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10972572 - 08/31/09 01:18 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Semantics!

Oh I see where you're going, but you keep using a different sentence every post you make to keep this argument going. Why didn't tell it plainly like you just did from the start?

Let's rephrase it to appease you lil' bunny: A cause should not be considered vain until it is failed, utterly and completely.

Suits you better?


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10972590 - 08/31/09 01:22 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

No, not semantics; we're not arguing definitions here, we're arguing an entire statement and it's meaning.


Quote:

solstice said:
Let's rephrase it to appease you lil' bunny: A cause should not be considered vain until it is failed, utterly and completely.

Suits you better?




:rofl2:, not at all, and you should hopefully understand why soon enough...


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10972631 - 08/31/09 01:32 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
No, not semantics; we're not arguing definitions here, we're arguing an entire statement and it's meaning.


Quote:

solstice said:
Let's rephrase it to appease you lil' bunny: A cause should not be considered vain until it is failed, utterly and completely.

Suits you better?




:rofl2:, not at all, and you should hopefully understand why soon enough...




:shrug: I don't. Please enlighten me master Poid.


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10972660 - 08/31/09 01:37 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Is your claim objective, or subjective?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10972676 - 08/31/09 01:40 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

In my opinion it is totally objective! :grin:


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10972683 - 08/31/09 01:43 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

wtf are you guys arguing about?  :nut:

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: DieCommie]
    #10972697 - 08/31/09 01:45 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
wtf are you guys arguing about?  :nut:





I will explain.

I previously launched into a rant about the benefits of maintaining a revolutionary state of mind in the face of adversity which master Poid right here claimed to be vain and compared to a shotgun blast to the face.

:grin:


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10972779 - 08/31/09 02:02 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

solstice said:
In my opinion it is totally objective! :grin:



Then perhaps you'd like to explain why you added the extremely loaded subjective term 'should' to your objective claim? :waits:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10972791 - 08/31/09 02:05 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Because I felt like it was the right word to use at the time! :shrug: And english is not my first language so I think I'm doing a pretty good job at it too!

It did change the essence of my claim and I think it is perfect that way and I'm sure you get what I mean too.


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10972807 - 08/31/09 02:08 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

If you're not specific in your wordage, the only thing to guide me is my imagination; in order for me to know exactly WTF you're talking about, you need to tell me exactly WTF you're talking about.

I need absolutely nothing more, and cannot do with any less. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10972826 - 08/31/09 02:11 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Well I stand by this latest version of my claim and challenge anyone to prove to me that is like firing a shotgun at someone's face.

" A cause should not be considered vain until it has failed, utterly and completely."


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10972833 - 08/31/09 02:13 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Still using "should", huh?


This may take a while...:goodmorning:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10975176 - 08/31/09 07:43 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

okay so, i want to post a new thread, but this one kinda covers my point... and not to interrupt you two, but...

i really feel there's no point to it all. i have since i was 11. been to so many head doc's. been on so much medication, now i'm an all organic health nut, and yet i still feel the same...

even what you are argueing about is pointless. there's no point to life at all. matter is condensed energy, which dissapates when you die. the earth doesn't need us, we're just another failing evolution that will disappear like 90% of all creations that ever have. nobodies ever come back from death, no one can prove God, reincarnation, or anything else. there's no point to it all. at all. you say the point is to be happy? what's happy? what's up? what's down? what's god? what's atheism? it's all fake! life is one big dream! people give me all these cliched answers, "just be happy, look at the bright side! can't let life get you down!"

but it's crap. i'm a full grown adult living perfectly healthy with kids of my own, and i was this depressed about the fultility of existence before i hit puberty.

governments are out to get us. they lie and want money. doctors, lawyers, shrinks, they're all aout to take your money, and could give two shits about your well being.

most entheogens are illegal. the governments of the world have declared war on nature itself, yet we let them be in charge.
but then, what's wrong with that? what's right with that? what is ANYTHING?

it's all a dream. an illusion. it can be good if you see it that way... but it could just as easily be bad, and there's not one thing that's going to change in the universe if you see it one way or the other! nothing! feeling "good" or "love" or anything else that exists for you to feel, is nothing but a chemical response in your brain that is influenced by the way you where raised...

and whos to say those feelings are anything? why are we born? why do we die? every religion has an answer, but they are selling you an invisible product. they all disagree, and more death and bloodshed has come from religions than anything else in our history.

being american is a joke. they murdered to take the land, and now they murder the world when they want something "oil".

i live here. i was born here. i AM NOT PROUD TO BE A USELESS LOUD MOUTHED OBNOXIOUS AMERICAN. i've been to canada, uk, africa, europe, south america, and we really are the worst fucking people on this planet. but hey! there's bad people everywhere! and you can try to make the world a better place, but then you'll die. and what good did you do? nothing you can prove. what if you spend your life teaching your son/daughter, and they die before you? what's the point of it all.

WHAT'S THE POINT OF IT ALL???????

science can prove to me what i say is true as far as everything being condensed energy, and it can prove where just another random evolutionary path, but nobody can prove a purpose or a God. sure, i love my family. so? it's just a chemical reaction. sure karma makes sense... but no more than islam or christianity.

so much war. so much hate. so much futility.

everythings been done before. EVERYTHING. every storyline, every movie plot... watching a movie is like a bad trip for me... i know what's gonna happen cause it's the same as before and i just can't wait for it to be done.
everything boreing. pointless. oh boy, let's go ride bikes.... so we can be done? t=and then what? eat yet again? breath more? for what? to stop eating one day? to stop breathing without warning?

we get no instructions, and the opportunists take advantage of that in life. we get no real rules of wrong and right except from our parents, and those rules are BOUND to conflict with some one elses.

and it everything is one love and all that BS, then why is man so far up the ladder kicking the rest of creation in the face as it tries to climb?

is this Ego loss? i have no faith in anything. at all. nothing is real and it's sure as hell ain't strawberry fields. i would kill myself but i've come to the conclusion that wouldn't make a difference. i would just keep living on in my mind swimming in DMT for 15 minutes after death, which could be a whole life.... which could be this life! i could be dead right now! tripping in my brain! or it could be nothing. i could be GOD and this could all be just an imagining, and you could all be fake!??!?!?!? i don't know! i never have! i've always felt like i was just going thru the motions in life, bored but just waiting for it to be over.

sometimes i can get high on drugs or food or life and feel alright, but in the back of my mind, i'm looking at the clock, waiting for the high to wear off so i can go back to waiting for death. no that death is all i think about... just most of the time. heaven? hell? reincarnate? wake up? what happens? i don't KNOW.

who am i? why am i?


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
    #10975208 - 08/31/09 07:47 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

:niggawhat:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10975295 - 08/31/09 08:05 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

so your eagle says, "niggawhat" when i hover over it...

but everything i asked is legitimate. i'm not suicidle, i'm not a sad person... i really question every fact of everything that is.

how do we know anything ever?

and BTW, nationalism is no better than religious hate or racism... it's just another thing to divide us all... not that that matters.


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
    #10975411 - 08/31/09 08:21 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Man, you just raised so many fucking topics in one post. This is why we have specific forums, and why people make threads about a specific topic.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10975510 - 08/31/09 08:41 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

the thread name is, "all this shit is so trivial"

which is exactly what i've said about every single detail of life.

i was reading the thread, you're a nazi dude. uptight as can be. but does that matter? does anything matter?

it's all so trivial.

all this shit is so trivial.


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
    #10975531 - 08/31/09 08:44 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I guess I see your point. You just explained the trivialities of your life so that people may agree with you that life is trivial.


You know what matters to me? Enjoying life. It's not too trivial for me. :satansmoking:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10975867 - 08/31/09 09:41 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Ok, so if you understand that life is (lets not say trivial) divorced from inherent meaning, you can use that to your advantage. If all events and aspects of life are fundamentally arbitrary - only energy at play - and any perspective we take on them is equally as arbitrary, you can simply shift yourself to the perspective that feels the best. Philosophical hedonism. You understand that you feeling bad about life is equally as baseless as someone feeling great about it, so just learn to trick yourself into feeling good. Manipulate your own life outlook to your advantage.

Of course easier said than done, but this is a trick LSD taught me, and it serves me well :smirk:.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Tranquil Toad]
    #10976314 - 08/31/09 10:38 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

true poid. i never said all these things were a problem... and enjoying life is good, i simply am pointing out that everything is kinda pointless if you look at it right. but then, ying to my yang, everything can have meaning, but what is that meaning? is it your meaning for it? or mine? or his?

his meaning (toad) is pretty good btw... everything is just energy at play. we give it meaning.

 

:mattz:


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: MileHiMycophiles]
    #10977903 - 09/01/09 07:17 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

But then again, this might only be an illusion making the underlying meaning difficult to see. A fleeting order hidden by chaos and apparent shallowness.


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10978331 - 09/01/09 09:42 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Tranquil Toad said:
Ok, so if you understand that life is (lets not say trivial) divorced from inherent meaning, you can use that to your advantage. If all events and aspects of life are fundamentally arbitrary - only energy at play - and any perspective we take on them is equally as arbitrary, you can simply shift yourself to the perspective that feels the best. Philosophical hedonism. You understand that you feeling bad about life is equally as baseless as someone feeling great about it, so just learn to trick yourself into feeling good. Manipulate your own life outlook to your advantage.

Of course easier said than done, but this is a trick LSD taught me, and it serves me well :smirk:.



I don't believe this worth a shit, philosophical hedonism seems to be fundamentally identical to religion. :nonono:


Quote:

solstice said:
But then again, this might only be an illusion making the underlying meaning difficult to see. A fleeting order hidden by chaos and apparent shallowness.



:rofl2:

Oh fuck, you think there may be an inherent objective meaning to life? This should be interesting. :goodmorning:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10978466 - 09/01/09 10:14 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Oh fuck, you think there may be an inherent objective meaning to life? This should be interesting.




Yes, I think there may be but you seemed about to go on an enlightening speech to show me what is wrong with that, go ahead! :ooo: I'm all eyes.


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10978793 - 09/01/09 11:13 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Nah, I'd rather refute your ideas, it's much more fun for me! :grin:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10978818 - 09/01/09 11:18 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Nah, I'd rather refute your ideas, it's much more fun for me! :grin:




:shrug: Well alright, do it then. Refute this idea: But then again, this might only be an illusion making the underlying meaning difficult to see. A fleeting order hidden by chaos and apparent shallowness.


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10978860 - 09/01/09 11:27 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I don't believe this worth a shit, philosophical hedonism seems to be fundamentally identical to religion. :nonono:




How is that similar to religion? I'm saying you can come up with your own meaning/perspective on life, knowing it will be arbitrary, to maximize pleasure.

Religions have a set meaning or dogma that they believe is not arbitrary at all, but a fundamental truth of the cosmos. This dogma often does not maximize pleasure.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Tranquil Toad]
    #10978881 - 09/01/09 11:31 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

solstice said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Nah, I'd rather refute your ideas, it's much more fun for me! :grin:




:shrug: Well alright, do it then. Refute this idea: But then again, this might only be an illusion making the underlying meaning difficult to see. A fleeting order hidden by chaos and apparent shallowness.



Alright, then once you've got all that fog in your head all cleared up, come back to me here! :grin:


Quote:

Tranquil Toad said:
Quote:

Poid said:
I don't believe this worth a shit, philosophical hedonism seems to be fundamentally identical to religion. :nonono:




How is that similar to religion? I'm saying you can come up with your own meaning/perspective on life, knowing it will be arbitrary, to maximize pleasure.

Religions have a set meaning or dogma that they believe is not arbitrary at all, but a fundamental truth of the cosmos. This dogma often does not maximize pleasure.



Religions come up with their own meaning/perspective on life.

I don't think truth is arbitrary. :nono:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (09/01/09 11:44 AM)

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10978946 - 09/01/09 11:43 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Alright, then once you've got all that fog in your head all cleared up, come back to me here !




You've got it all wrong my friend. You're the one who wants to refute so... refute! Or maybe you can't! :grin:


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10978965 - 09/01/09 11:46 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

What am I to refute? That you think there may be a meaning to life?

How can I argue against an opinion? :confused:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10978985 - 09/01/09 11:48 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Nah, I'd rather refute your ideas, it's much more fun for me! :grin:




Hey you said it! Not me and now you're shying away from it. :lol:


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10978986 - 09/01/09 11:48 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

:lol: But, but, his opinions must be true. Cause it's so self evident to him. :monkeydance:


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

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The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Icelander]
    #10979154 - 09/01/09 12:12 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

He apparently doesn't understand that his subjective reality only exists for him. Can't imagine why anyone would think that. :justdontknow:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10979218 - 09/01/09 12:19 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Well I guess it completely went past you guys that I was merely speaking my mind at the moment because I was inspired by what was being said and doing so without claiming that what I was saying was an ultimate truth.

In any case, I have the impression that a couple of people here are so intent on arguing that they developped some kind of automatic reflex to argue anything that will come their way ( or even actively seek something to argue over ).

This might be the philosophy section but without any intention of progress, a discussion can hardly be considered a philosophical one.

And just to make sure this is not misinterpreted ( since we are, it seems, walking on eggshells 'round here ) this is no more and no less than my opinion.  :blowjob:


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10979307 - 09/01/09 12:34 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

solstice said:
In any case, I have the impression that a couple of people here are so intent on arguing that they developped some kind of automatic reflex to argue anything that will come their way ( or even actively seek something to argue over ).



So what? :confused:


Quote:

solstice said:
This might be the philosophy section but without any intention of progress, a discussion can hardly be considered a philosophical one.



I agree. We cannot make much progress if you are unaware of the "rules" of debate. :thumbup:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10979352 - 09/01/09 12:40 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

So what?




Indeed, so what? Well I guess it depends if one minds being a mere automaton or not. To each his own!

Quote:

I agree. We cannot make much progress if you are unaware of the "rules" of debate.




Ah! This is a good one. But you see, for the last hour I've been trying to orient this " debate " toward something a bit more constructive while you strive to keep it somewhat personal, acting like I'm not " good enough " to debate with which makes the situation somewhat ironic since you actually waste time debating about how lousy a " debater " I am.

Go figure! And now I defuse this " debate ".


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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10979418 - 09/01/09 12:51 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not debating anything other than peoples' claims. I may make a remark that you are not using this forum appropriately, but that's neither here or there. If you don't wanna debate, then don't enter into a forum where tough debate is encouraged. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10979617 - 09/01/09 01:19 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I'm not debating anything other than peoples' claims. I may make a remark that you are not using this forum appropriately, but that's neither here or there. If you don't wanna debate, then don't enter into a forum where tough debate is encouraged. :shrug:




Tough debate and legal flaming are two different things. More often than not I enjoy your debate style as annoying as your posts can sometimes be. Sometimes however, when too many posts are repeating themselves as if the intent was to derail a thread or annoy another poster, I begin to lose interest in the debate. A tough debate would not lose my interest.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: zen buddy]
    #10979634 - 09/01/09 01:23 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

The repetition cannot be blamed on me; review my exchanges with solstice, and you'll see that the fault is clearly his/hers.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Invisiblezen buddy
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10979761 - 09/01/09 01:42 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
:facepalm:

You just don't get it! You said this:
Quote:

A cause is never vain until you failed at making it happen and how are you going to know if you don't try?





You're saying here that a cause is always necessarily successful until said cause literally fails. How can you not see the inherent logical fallacy in this statement? :cuckoo:




It is not difficult to understand the point he is trying to make here but instead of trying to understand or asking him questions so that you might better understand what he is trying to say here, your post tries to twist his words to mean something other than what he was trying to say. Then you go on to say that the statement is false logic when it is only your posts regurgitation that is false.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: zen buddy]
    #10979796 - 09/01/09 01:48 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I really don't care what s/he's trying to say, and even if I did, I could be wrong; this is why people should just be clear in the first place if they wish to have good communication. :tongue:


I didn't twist anything, rather, I rearranged his words so that they're clearer; the sentence still means exactly the same thing. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinesolstice
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10979953 - 09/01/09 02:13 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I'm not debating anything other than peoples' claims. I may make a remark that you are not using this forum appropriately, but that's neither here or there. If you don't wanna debate, then don't enter into a forum where tough debate is encouraged. :shrug:




Well, that's not for you to judge is it? And I assume that since my posts were not moderated, that everything I tried to get across in this topic is in tune with the " rules of this forum ".

And it seems that I am not alone in thinking so...


--------------------
Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10979972 - 09/01/09 02:18 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

It's for you to judge; do you want to be here (a place where tough debate is encouraged) or not?

You didn't break any rules, no, and I'm not saying you did. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinesolstice
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10979985 - 09/01/09 02:20 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
It's for you to judge; do you want to be here (a place where tough debate is encouraged) or not?

You didn't break any rules, no, and I'm not saying you did. :shrug:





Well that's my question then: What are you saying? :lolsy:


--------------------
Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10980015 - 09/01/09 02:25 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I've said it all. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinesolstice
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10980027 - 09/01/09 02:26 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

In conclusion I would say that this thread earned it's name. :grin:


--------------------
Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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Invisiblezen buddy
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10980334 - 09/01/09 03:20 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I really don't care what s/he's trying to say,




this explains a lot

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InvisibleMileHiMycophiles
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10980345 - 09/01/09 03:21 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

solstice said:
In conclusion I would say that this thread earned it's name. :grin:



:glittershitz:

lol.


--------------------

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: zen buddy]
    #10980654 - 09/01/09 04:09 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zen buddy said:
Quote:

Poid said:
I really don't care what s/he's trying to say,




this explains a lot



It only explains that I appreciate intelligibility. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #10985924 - 09/02/09 11:23 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

:hissyfit:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineSventington
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Icelander]
    #10987528 - 09/02/09 04:04 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

You're going to break that shrug emoticon at this rate.

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InvisibleMileHiMycophiles
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Sventington]
    #10989043 - 09/02/09 08:34 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sventington said:
You're going to break that shrug emoticon at this rate.



LOL

guy just argues to argue... who knows if he really believes what he says? :shrug:
but lemme see if this thing can be broken...
:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:


.... we should be good, fire away poid. :wink:


--------------------

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Offlinesdijk
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: solstice]
    #11093501 - 09/20/09 06:13 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

.

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Invisibleexplosiveoxygen
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #11104944 - 09/22/09 03:55 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Whenever people want to tell others how to live, they are participating in tyranny. :levitate:


--------------------
The Great Mycelium (TGMM) is more than you and me, we are all part of One.

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