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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: DieCommie]
    #10926711 - 08/24/09 01:07 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Read a little history and you'll see change is the norm.



You trying to say this isn't a pattern of human history? :lol:"Money rules everything, and those with the most money rule everything."

OC - Yeah i was talking about genes, i don't care if you weren't.  Genes govern a large portion of who i am and the life i live...  Not to get off-topic here but you remind me a lot of  Ted Kaczynski.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926730 - 08/24/09 01:09 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Thats not the quote that I took issue with.  You should read more carefully, specifically post #10926605.

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10926734 - 08/24/09 01:10 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Money is a resource; the people with the most resources have always ruled things. :shrug:




Resource yeah?  Pieces of paper seem like a pretty shitty resource, i would rather have a knife or a lighter.  Humans give money value, when in physical reality its just a piece of fuckin' paper.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926756 - 08/24/09 01:13 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

What did you buy that knife or lighter with? :rolleyes:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlineandrewss
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926777 - 08/24/09 01:17 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Money is a resource; the people with the most resources have always ruled things. :shrug:




Resource yeah?  Pieces of paper seem like a pretty shitty resource, i would rather have a knife or a lighter.  Humans give money value, when in physical reality its just a piece of fuckin' paper.




:lol:

don't make the all too common hippie mistake of thinking you have a good understanding on economics... Money represents a real thing within the system, how are you gonna really get out of it, its everywhere and it works pretty damn well and nobody has a better idea


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Jesus loves you.

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926806 - 08/24/09 01:21 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Any other way the way society runs is fundamentally wrong?  You don't see this?  Anyone who tries to change the way society is run in american culture is called a terrorist.  Same thing is true with the fear of communism during the cold war.  Terrorists are highly feared in the culture.  A deep rooted fear of change in collective vested interests of institutions.  When you turn on the TV and see people talking about "terrorism" isn't everything about the terrorism fundamentally wrong?


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: andrewss]
    #10926821 - 08/24/09 01:23 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

andrewss said:
don't make the all too common hippie mistake of thinking you have a good understanding on economics...



I don't.  All i said was money is paper.  Humans give it value.  That's all...


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Offlineandrewss
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926858 - 08/24/09 01:29 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I think communism is a far fetched ideal that has proven not to be a better way than capitalism, it might work for small societies but large scale I say fuck it.

I don't know if I said wrong, but sure... I think history has shown it to be pretty wrong.

Holding fast on an opinion, even if it is a bit dogmatic or something isn't all that bad, sometimes its necessary to be a bit dogmatic... you can do that without being totally ignorant, just staking some plot - what of it? The machine >

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Quote:

andrewss said:
don't make the all too common hippie mistake of thinking you have a good understanding on economics...



I don't.  All i said was money is paper.  Humans give it value.  That's all...




Alright


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Jesus loves you.

Edited by andrewss (08/24/09 01:31 PM)

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: andrewss]
    #10926894 - 08/24/09 01:34 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not saying communism is a good idea either.  I'm just saying the "patriotic american" will never accept an alternate idea, because its not american.  Hence the deep rooted fear.  I think this would be a good idea, if all american ideas were the best ideas. But i think americans are learned "patriotism".  They were taught to accept rather than taught to think.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10926901 - 08/24/09 01:35 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Anyone who tries to change the way society is run in american culture is called a terrorist.




Thats not true.  You are just making that up.

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: DieCommie]
    #10926911 - 08/24/09 01:37 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

It was when george w bush was in office:shrug:  You ever listen to him speak?  I think its still true.  But if you think i just made that up, thats okay too.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Offlineandrewss
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10927042 - 08/24/09 02:01 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
I'm not saying communism is a good idea either.  I'm just saying the "patriotic american" will never accept an alternate idea, because its not american.  Hence the deep rooted fear.  I think this would be a good idea, if all american ideas were the best ideas. But i think americans are learned "patriotism".  They were taught to accept rather than taught to think.




Well most of those people are just dumb and likely don't hold real power.

AMERICA FUCK YEAH


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Jesus loves you.

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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10927053 - 08/24/09 02:03 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

When you see through 'me' you see through everything else

You don't have to see through everything else, theres too much out there to see thorugh each thing individually, just see through yourself

The rest falls into place...

:peace:


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: andrewss]
    #10927134 - 08/24/09 02:19 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Well most of those people are just dumb and likely don't hold real power.



:werd:

But that doesn't mean they cannot influence people.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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InvisibleArden
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10927198 - 08/24/09 02:29 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Culture is culture.

They all have their benefits and disadvantages, expressed through their relationships with the environment and other groups of people. But it is all relative, one cannot qualitatively assert than any one culture is better than the other--logically, because culture itself borrows traditions and behaviors that funnels down through history.

More specifically, despite surface appearances, nothing is wrong. "Everything is on track", McKenna would say. Our trends and pattern of growth originates in our biology and our interdependence with Earth and everything else, and as such reflects a common teleological direction. As a collective organism, Gaia makes no mistakes.

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OfflineTranquil Toad
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Arden]
    #10927352 - 08/24/09 02:54 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I think the "all is relative, nothing is wrong" approach can be dangerous. Yes, you can talk yourself into philosophical circles saying nothing is better than anything else - as any viewpoint is based on someones subjective perspective. But I often see this used as an argument to do nothing and just accept things as they are.

Maybe from a macrocosmic planetary perspective everything is on track, but I don't think this should mean we behave as if nothing is up to us. I agree with cognitive shift, people don't like it when you say something is wrong with our culture. It could be argued there is nothing inherently wrong or evil with our society, but that doesn't mean there aren't things that can be improved upon. One shouldn't get so caught up in logic and philosophy that it prevents growth.

The entire history of evolution on this planet is based on change due to pressures that make a previous system no longer viable. And our current system, at the rate which we are destroying the only home we have - this earth, - will soon no longer be viable if we hope to survive.

I forget the exact quote from mckenna, but I'll butcher it anyways. He said to know in your heart that everything is on track, believe everything is as it should be - but behave as if it were up to us, as if we were the deciding factor in how this whole thing plays out.

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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10927544 - 08/24/09 03:26 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

the minority of sanity...

soon... it will be the majority..
patience..


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---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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InvisibleArden
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: jivJaN]
    #10927896 - 08/24/09 04:23 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)




Quote:

I think the "all is relative, nothing is wrong" approach can be dangerous. Yes, you can talk yourself into philosophical circles saying nothing is better than anything else - as any viewpoint is based on someones subjective perspective. But I often see this used as an argument to do nothing and just accept things as they are.




Good intentions can be as equally destructive as apathy.

There is a difference between accepting things as they are, and acknowledging that whatever our choice, it is still the universe designing itself. It is inherently human and imperialistic to believe that things are on the verge of the breaking point--and that in the midst of losing our noble savages, modern society, unless re-directed by the intelligent human will, will forever crumble to [insert whatever timely threat: pollution, etc.]

The way that we define the nature of destruction is contingent on our current interpretive and scientific paradigm, and more or less depends on what political/environmental/spiritual slant we put on it. What saves the rainforest today will pollute the rivers tomorrow. Hubris and debris is needed for compost, however you wish to spin the transient ideologies.

Quote:

The entire history of evolution on this planet is based on change due to pressures that make a previous system no longer viable. And our current system, at the rate which we are destroying the only home we have - this earth, - will soon no longer be viable if we hope to survive.




Both the prima materia that is being changed, and the forceful 'pressures' that drive the novelty, is of the same forward-moving and organized essence. Our human behavior and the impact it has had on our environment is aggregate. The puzzle pieces began their descent from the early yawns of abiogenesis. To think we have control of the reigns is silly (1 million years from now, the "green eco-cities" will congratulate our fastidiousness? Really?).

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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Arden]
    #10930654 - 08/24/09 11:01 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

hey guys, we should not forget that we are animals, and when you look at animals in groups they seem to be like... humans!

Human group life is integral to our being. But the people who run the world know that being in groups is how humans reach their true potential. So modern society attempts to control which groups people are in and keep them focussed on universal values - eg money, patriotism, sport, overseas economical wars, etc.

The individual's life, their mystic journey and their appreciation for what is important in the world, is always given high consideration during introspection. But once you get in a group that mostly gets concealed by your new identities and objectives.

Capitalism society allows some people to have lots of power, yeah. And they use it badly, yeah. For their own good, yeah. (cant blame them really). But I SEE PEOPLE EVERYWHERE trying to put down the capitalist system and I too have a lot of angst about it. Unfortunately I DONT SEE ANYWHERE any attempts to simply make powerful people more accountable for their actions.

The big bad boss is always a shadowy figure or alternatively an ambiguous, two faced advertisement.

Revolutionaries are kept trying to put down modern society.

Well Ill tell you what, money has allowed more willing transfer of resources and effort, then any other social tool that man has used. Money is an important tool. Not necessarily the current methods used to value money and prices of work and goods, but the concept of money itself, as an abstract representation of value that can be traded.

Money is bad because it allows people to accumulate wealth unscrupulously.

With great power comes great responsibility.
One element of responsibility is in the person with power - their understanding that they have the power to do good where others dont. The other element, however, is accountability. When something is wrong, we ask who is responsible. But the powerful people are apparently never responsible for anything in todays world because they are just running their organisation, and any specific functions of that organisation can be scapegoated to departments or sources of information or simply some battler who cops it.

But if powerful people were made more accountable then everyone would try to pull them in line. Revolts could be focussed on individuals. So they obviously try to keep the concept out of collective consciousness as hard as they can.

PUt more pressure on the people in power. Demand more from governments. BUT at the same time, let them make decisions and do things. Let them be stingy or discriminative if they want to be, but make them pay if the consequences are dire.


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OfflineRocker232
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Re: All this shit is so trivial. [Re: Poid]
    #10931137 - 08/25/09 12:13 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
I don't think anyone should have values forced on them, but to support a system of culture that is fundamentally flawed (american) is what a stupid person would do.



Your subjective point of view sees it as fundamentally flawed; obviously, like you said earlier, most people in this culture do not have much of a problem with it. :shrug:




One cannot have a problem if their eyes are shut to it.


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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes

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