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 Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
 
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Loc: SF Bay Area 
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 Faith is paradoxical in its nature 
#10920080 - 08/23/09 04:07 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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From Søren Kierkegaard - Wikipedia:
Quote:
The leap of faith is his conception of how an individual would believe in God, or how a person would act in love. Faith is not a decision based on evidence that, say, certain beliefs about God are true or a certain person is worthy of love. No such evidence could ever be enough to pragmatically justify the kind of total commitment involved in true religious faith or romantic love. Faith involves making that commitment anyway. Kierkegaard thought that to have faith is at the same time to have doubt. So, for example, for one to truly have faith in God, one would also have to doubt one's beliefs about God; the doubt is the rational part of a person's thought involved in weighing evidence, without which the faith would have no real substance. Someone who does not realise that Christian doctrine is inherently doubtful and that there can be no objective certainty about its truth does not have faith but is merely credulous. For example, it takes no faith to believe that a pencil or a table exists, when one is looking at it and touching it. In the same way, to believe or have faith in God is to know that one has no perceptual or any other access to God, and yet still has faith in God. As Kierkegaard writes, "doubt is conquered by faith, just as it is faith which has brought doubt into the world".
Discuss. 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan   fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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 andrewss
precariously aggrandized
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 Re: Faith is paradoxical in its nature [Re: Poid]
#10920730 - 08/23/09 05:39 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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indeed
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Jesus loves you.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Faith is paradoxical in its nature [Re: andrewss]
#10920771 - 08/23/09 05:45 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's sad that the vast majority of people of faith are not aware of this...
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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rootbark
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Re: Faith is paradoxical in its nature [Re: Poid]
#10920791 - 08/23/09 05:48 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, that's exactly my situation.
I believe I don't believe I believe I don't believe I believe I don't believe I believe I don't believe I believe I don't believe I believe I don't believe I believe I don't believe I believe. Ad infinitum.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Faith is paradoxical in its nature [Re: rootbark]
#10920798 - 08/23/09 05:49 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
rootbark said:
I believe I don't believe I believe I don't believe I believe I don't believe I believe I don't believe I believe I don't believe I believe I don't believe I believe I don't believe I believe.
That's a trip, this sentence could mean many, many things...
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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fivepointer
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Re: Faith is paradoxical in its nature [Re: Poid]
#10920879 - 08/23/09 06:06 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Doubters are not believers, period. Believers have absolute assurance of what is believed is true, and have no doubt of assurance of salvation.
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Sventington
am what I am what I am what I am
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Re: Faith is paradoxical in its nature [Re: fivepointer]
#10920976 - 08/23/09 06:24 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Then they don't sound like believers so much as knowers.
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rootbark
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Re: Faith is paradoxical in its nature [Re: Poid]
#10921887 - 08/23/09 08:34 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
rootbark said:
I believe I don't believe I believe I don't believe I believe I don't believe I believe I don't believe I believe I don't believe I believe I don't believe I believe I don't believe I believe.
That's a trip, this sentence could mean many, many things...
After the second statement, it means the statement before the one you picked up.
So, if X stands for I believe ( and Christ ) and A stands for I don't ( and athom ):
XAXAXA means
XAAXAX.
But wait! XAAXAX means
XAXAXA. which of course, means
XAAXAX. And so on...
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
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Re: Faith is paradoxical in its nature [Re: Poid]
#10922054 - 08/23/09 09:03 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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> Discuss.
Faith is not something to have, rather it is something to embody. Your quote is correct, but only within the framework of duality.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Faith is paradoxical in its nature [Re: Poid]
#10922281 - 08/23/09 09:49 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Kierkegaard had a pretty good handle on what death anxiety was but he couldn't deal with the terror.
When there is no evidence for God there is a reason to believe. But it doesn't have to be a healthy one.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Faith is paradoxical in its nature [Re: Icelander]
#10926020 - 08/24/09 01:25 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
fivepointer said:
Doubters are not believers, period. Believers have absolute assurance of what is believed is true, and have no doubt of assurance of salvation.
 , did you not read the emboldened quote?
Quote:
So, for example, for one to truly have faith in God, one would also have to doubt one's beliefs about God; the doubt is the rational part of a person's thought involved in weighing evidence, without which the faith would have no real substance.
Quote:
Seuss said:
> Discuss.
Faith is not something to have, rather it is something to embody. Your quote is correct, but only within the framework of duality.
I think it could be seen both ways; for example, we all have death anxiety, and I'm not sure anybody embodies it.
What do you mean by "within the framework of duality"?
Quote:
Icelander said:
Kierkegaard had a pretty good handle on what death anxiety was but he couldn't deal with the terror.
When there is no evidence for God there is a reason to believe. But it doesn't have to be a healthy one.
Kierkegaard was a fucking genius...
Amen to your last sentence there. 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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