|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
He posts to affirm that he exists.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
|
Re: Serious Question [Re: Icelander]
#10891343 - 08/19/09 05:20 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said: He posts to affirm that he exists.
What are you his lawyer agent or existentialist one both all three or are you HE?
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
I am he and he is me and we are all together.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
|
Re: Serious Question [Re: Poid]
#10891906 - 08/19/09 06:40 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
I feel that the DSM is sufficient for all intents and purposes. 
Again, I would like to hear your opinion on it, your own understanding on the matter, with your own words so that afterwards we can address specific points.
Quote:
The DSM is a good enough source; if someone is experiencing auditory and visual hallucinations, there are many disorders that the individual may be suffering with.
Yes, the individual could be suffering from a series of illnesses, with or without experiencing hallucination. Of course, "may" doesn't equate with "is". There's absolutely nothing to lead one to the conclusion that, if one hallucinates, one is automatically having a mental illness. As long as a person will be able to live their lives in a functional way where they don't harm themselves or others and is able to enjoy their lives and put meaning into it, nobody can say they suffer from a mental illness.
Quote:
If she already has a mild mental illneses, statistics show that she is more likely to be a danger to hersel for others.
The first issue is "if".  The second issue is exactly what you're referring to when you say "mild mental illness".
Quote:
A dreams is an unconscious perception, which is much different than a conscious visual/auditory hallucination.
How is it different than a conscious hallucination, and what makes you think that a dream is an unconscious experience? After all, people DO remember their dreams, and if they are making a goal out of remembering even more dreams, they can keep diaries and in this way they'll be even more conscious of their dreams with most of their details. You propose that a fully conscious hallucination is different, but you don't explain what is different about it. To me, it looks like the only difference is that, when one dreams, one is sleeping, as opposed to the other times when one is awake and engaging in active imagination. Of course, another thing worth taken to consideration is that people also have the ability to lucid dream, which brings the whole experience of dreaming even closer to being fully conscious. As a personal experience, I can remember more than a few situations in which I lucid dreamed and I felt I was more conscious than a good amount of time when I was awake. Other than that, there's no clear and well defined difference between dreams and "conscious hallucinations". Both of these have a tremendous power to influence or mood, thoughts, reactions and desires. As a result of both of them we can feel depressed or happy, or we can even choose to think that the people we dreamed about were real and sending us messages from the spirit world or who the fuck knows where. The fact still remains that the key is in how one chooses to feel about their experience (be it a dream or an awake hallucination), and what one decides to make of it. The concept of mental illness is already a highly controversial subject, and if a society decides that something is unfit and not functional for the way thing are arranged within that society, certain actions can be deemed as mental illness. But what if that society itself is ill, thus making all those judgments from an irrational perspective?
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
Mufungo
Coming at ya


Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 2,743
Loc: Knowhere
|
Re: Serious Question [Re: Poid]
#10892063 - 08/19/09 07:07 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Poid said: There are a great deal of studies that have concluded that people with mental illnesses are more likely to harm either themselves or others. I thought it was common knowledge. 
And those studies are on particular types of people with mental illness, criminals or extreme in patient cases. Hence why it's not representative of all people with mental illness, and hence why it's blown out of proportion. Be careful how you generalise data from studies.
What you call common knowledge about people with mental illness I'd be more inclined to call a common misconception/stereotype. There's not enough information on the general population of people with mental illness to declare that people with mental illness are more likely to cause harm. When I meet a person with mental illness, I'm no more likely to expect them to be harmful than any other person.
--------------------
|
johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
|
|
Quote:
The DSM is a good enough source; if someone is experiencing auditory and visual hallucinations, there are many disorders that the individual may be suffering with.
Ok, well pick one.
From what little I know of these things, apart from being pretty subjective, its normally not considered an illness unless it is abnormal and interferes signifigantly with life.
Like mushroomtrip said, it makes no sense to call a dream a symptom of a mental illness. Maybe an abnormal dream causing intereference with your life functions (such as one scaring you so bad you don't get out of bed, or one that convinces you that your god so you stop eating...) would meet that criteria.
Is there any mental illness in the DSM that is generally diagnosable per them without signifigant detriment to normal life functions- eating, sleeping, working, concentrating, relating with people, et cet?
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: Serious Question [Re: Poid]
#10892472 - 08/19/09 08:10 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Poid said: Again, in my example, it wasn't just once. Having reoccurring hallucinations is to a potential development of an extreme mental illness as someone mumbling threats to kill themselves with a loaded pistol in their mouth is to a potential suicide. Wouldn't you agree?
Actually, in your example, you simply said that she hallucinated him. Considering that you didn't modify the usage of that tense of the verb with a qualifier to specify the amount of times, such as "she hallucinated many times", and considering that you didn't use the verb in the tense "was hallucinating" to signify that it was a process over time, one could have only assumed you were speaking of one incident.
Regardless, it is still regardless. I don't agree in the slightest, and I don't see how you consider the possibility of a reoccurring hallucination to develop later into a more serious problem to be analogous to someone threatening to kill themselves while they have an instrument capable of doing exactly that placed precisely in their mouth in that very moment. Honestly, it is a logical disconnect. They would be much more analogous if you would drop the weapon and simply refer to someone who had contemplated suicide a few times but at the same time didn't actually feel it strongly enough to commit suicide.
Since it is obvious that the matter is boiling down to its essence, let me reiterate: The fact, in and of itself, that someone is experiencing a hallucination, an isolated occurrence or a set of occurrences, does not determine in any way how likely it is that they will develop an "extreme" mental illness sometime in the future as compared to someone else. Only the nature of the specific circumstances of these individuals invoked in the comparison, an actual understanding of the context in which the hallucinations are taking place, can determine the likelihood that it can develop into something more serious. That is something that you can take to the bank. There's no need to think through poor assumptions that carry with them little to no predictive value when one only needs to analyze the actualities of the situation itself.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
Lateralus_
Stranger


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 23
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
|
|
All I know is..
the exponential increase in the synchronicity throughout my daily life has changed what i believe, in a very large way.
Coincidence - a striking occurrence of two or more events at one time apparently by mere chance..
Synchronicity - the coincidental occurrence of events and especially psychic events (as similar thoughts in widely separated persons or a mental image of an unexpected event before it happens) that seem related but are not explained by conventional mechanisms of causality.
when 4 to 10 coincidences (4 to 10 rules out my understanding of what a coincidence is..) happen for me, in a day.. EVERY DAY.. i can't come up with any reason not to believe what i do.
we are all a reflection of One
Edited by Lateralus_ (08/20/09 10:20 AM)
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
I think, in the end, it's all about what kind of person you are: are you a blue pill person, or are you a red pill person? 
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
|
Re: Serious Question [Re: Poid]
#10897721 - 08/20/09 01:41 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Boy, what a cop-out.
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|

It was the point I was driving towards anyways, I just decided to take the fast lane!
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
we are all a reflection of One 
You mean the giant sky ?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
|
|
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Why is it that believers can never point to any real-world results (other than anecdote) from their practices and skeptics always can?
How many failures does it take to 'get it'?
Well the whole point of REAL spirituality, is to discover the unreality of the world, so then, why would you want 'real worlds' results?
The closest thing to a physical result is happyness, which im sure could be measured by some chemical release in the brain?
Im sure there have been a few tests on tibetan monks & their brains...there was also tests done where a yogi, can't rememebr his name, could contol his blood pressure, his heart rate etc through breathe control....if you want proof go & look for it though i don't have links, as im not really that interested in the 'real world', im only interested in the REAL 
--------------------
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: Serious Question [Re: Chronic7]
#10902955 - 08/21/09 07:05 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Chronic777 said: Well the whole point of REAL spirituality, is to discover the unreality of the world
Nice logical fallacy you have going there.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
He should be on Saturday Night Live. Maybe Jon Lovitz could do his character.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
|
Re: Serious Question [Re: Icelander]
#10903366 - 08/21/09 09:14 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Or the Oneness.
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
amuzakat
Growing mutant shrooms


Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 519
Loc: Europe
|
|
People ignore the reality of illusion, said Huang Po. :-)
|
|